Partition was a mistake

[roadrunner]

Dear SN,

RR has already confirmed to you that it was not done by Afghani taliban but by the Pakistani Taliban. Please also read below

Text Begins

There are vast numbers of important Buddhist sites in Swat and other areas of northwest Pakistan," she writes. "At this point, all of them are under threat of destruction, thanks to the influential voice of the Islamist leader Mullah Fazlullah."

Mullah Maulana Fazlullah is currently the strong man in the Swat region, notwithstanding his youth: He is only 28 years old. He thinks of himself as part of the Taliban movement and accepts only one authority: Mullah Omar. He has even proclaimed an "Islamic emirate" in his area of influence, and he commands a militia estimated to comprise some 4,500 men.

Text Ends

The 'Talibanization' of Pakistan: Islamists Destroy Buddhist Statue - International - SPIEGEL ONLINE - News

Regards

He might be wrong. But you and your article are even more wrong than him Mr "Neutrality". Maulana Fazlullah is just a bandit, a crook, he's been forced out of his area. Most people are against his ideology. and he only had control over parts of Swat area (very tiny compared to NWFP, and miniscule compared to Pakistan).

 

[salman nedian]

AN,
There is difference in a Taliban (They are Afghanis) local agent and a public mob which attacked Babri Masjid.

 

[Malang]

Your prize is nothing. These aren't Dalits.

and pray why are they not???
Tell me the examples you have an issue with and I will post my reference...

One example, I picked at random.
Sardar Buta Singh - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
He's a Sikh.

So aren't Sikhs from lower castes??
Many sikhs are from low castes and they are given reservations on the basis of their castes... Kanshi Ram was a Sikh too and he converted to Buddhism because of discrimination by high caste Sikhs..

Buta Singh is a dalit Sikh... He is National SC/ST Commission chairperson..

BTW: I am going to be putting lots of Dalit Muslims in that list too...

Most of the rest are upper caste or middle HIndus.

No they are not.. I actually compiled all the names from a list...
Tell me which ones you have an issue with and provide a source...

It works fine.

Tried again and yep it worked.. A pretty biased article..
"Smita Narula, a senior researcher with Human Rights Watch, and author of Broken People: Caste Violence Against India's "Untouchables."
"International Dalit Conference" I believe one of the organising association also promotes/ supports idea of Dalitistan, Khalistan, Islamistan, Sakistan in India..

"Statistics compiled by India's National Crime Records Bureau indicate that in the year 2000, the last year for which figures are available, 25,455 crimes were committed against Dalits." OBC/SC/ST number around half a billion in India and most of the crimes are committed within the community I believe...

 

[Malang]

Where has it disappeared to ? Come one malang don't do a white wash job. It is very much in existence.

are you telling me Untouchability in India is widespread???????

Why I even read that there are a creed of people called dalit muslims and dalit christians.

Dalits means low caste...
For eg. almost a century back
a Sikh Jat did not touch a Hindu Jat .. now they intermarry...
a Brahmin wouldn't touch a Yadav, now Yadav's discriminate against Brahmins...
A Hindu Rajput wouldn't touch a Hindu Jat nor were Jats allowed to ride Horses during their wedding ceremony. and today Jats are the most powerful in Rajasthan...
A Meena was untouchable for all.. and today in Rajasthan they are beating up Gujjars...
Pariahs when entering cities would entail sounding of music, shutting of all doors and windows.. streets to be deserted.. and the streets after their passing to be washed with Ganges water etc. etc.. today it is unheard of...
Out of SUBcaste marriage and love marriage was out of the question today it is the norm...

India is atleast 30 years away from your statement.

If you are talking about Untouchability, it is virtually finished... Discrimination is there and it will be mostly eliminated in a decade or two... but totally finished Never...

 

[Always Neutral]

He might be wrong. But you and your article are even more wrong than him Mr "Neutrality". Maulana Fazlullah is just a bandit, a crook, he's been forced out of his area. Most people are against his ideology. and he only had control over parts of Swat area (very tiny compared to NWFP, and miniscule compared to Pakistan).

Why am I wrong ? Is Maulana F a pakistani or afghani citizen ? Whether he is a local crook or not was never the issue. I rest my case.

Have a chibuku and relax.

Regards

 

[roadrunner]

So aren't Sikhs from lower castes??
Many sikhs are from low castes

Sikhs arent from lower caste anything. They are just a different religion to Hindus. You can't include a Sikh as a Dalit!!!!!!

Here is what Sikhism says about caste

"Caste and Sikhism: Sikhism does not inculcate belief in caste. No man is born great or low. Guru Amardas says, "All colours and forms are thine." Guru Arjan Sahib gives the simile of the potter."

 

[Always Neutral]

are you telling me Untouchability in India is widespread???????

Dalits means low caste...

If you are talking about Untouchability, it is finished... Discrimination is there and it will be virtually eliminated in a decade or two... but totally finished Never...

Don't 80 % of the Dalits live in their own villages countrywide ? isolated from the upper caste ?

Regards

 

[Always Neutral]

AN,
There is difference in a Taliban (They are Afghanis) local agent and a public mob which attacked Babri Masjid.

Dear SN,

You know the reason of PA going to SWAT and FATA were to quell both Pakistani as well others from copying the Taliban movement and setting up a Pakistani Taliban. Maulana F is a pakistani citizen so why are blaming Afghanistan Taliban for his deeds.

Regards

 

[Malang]

Sikhs arent from lower caste anything. They are just a different religion to Hindus. You can't include a Sikh as a Dalit!!!!!!

Here is what Sikhism says about caste

"Caste and Sikhism: Sikhism does not inculcate belief in caste. No man is born great or low. Guru Amardas says, "All colours and forms are thine." Guru Arjan Sahib gives the simile of the potter."

RR admittedly Sikhism is against Caste system but have a look at a Sikh matrimonial Sites and decide for yourself...

Jeevansathi Matrimonials- Registration Page
Punjabi Matrimony - Regular Search

There are alteast 2 dozen Sikh castes mentioned..
You may have to register..

PS: Sikhism is also against Drinking, Meat Eating etc. but Punjab is claimed to be the state with the highest consumption of meat and one of the world's highest consumption of alcohol per capita..
Gateway to Sikhism : Sikhism FAQs:Is drinking permitted in Sikhism?

 

[Malang]

Don't 80 % of the Dalits live in their own villages countrywide ? isolated from the upper caste ?

if such were the case why would discrimination occur??

Dalits very much live with their non dalit counterparts... and today because of democracy things have changed... in Dalit dominated districts Dalits are more powerful than non Dalits... and most of the uppercastes who are educated and well off are in the cities/towns and not Villages...

 

[Always Neutral]

RR admittedly Sikhism is against Caste system but have a look at a Sikh matrimonial Sites and decide for yourself...


PS: Sikhism is also against Drinking, Meat Eating etc. but Punjab is claimed to be the state with the highest consumption of meat and one of the world's highest consumption of alcohol per capita..

The word PATIALA PEG is there on all Royal Army terminology.

Regards

 

[Always Neutral]

if such were the case why would discrimination occur??

Dalits very much live with their non dalit counterparts... and today because of democracy things have changed... in Dalit dominated districts Dalits are more powerful than non Dalits... and most of the uppercastes who are educated and well off are in the cities/towns and not Villages...

The Hindu : National : ‘They are Dalits first and then Muslims and Christians’

They are Dalits first and then Muslims and Christians’

Special Correspondent

NEW DELHI: The study by the National Commission for Minorities that has suggested reservation for Dalit Muslims and Christians has said that there is no room for disputing the fact that they are invariably regarded as ‘socially inferior’ communities by their co-religionists.” They are Dalits first and then Muslims and Christians, it noted.

Referring to the manner in which courts refused to recognise them as Scheduled Castes owing to lack of evidence, the study says that a lot of evidence has become available since the Soosai case — “the last major judicial pronouncement on this question.” In turn, Professor Deshpande has concluded that it is unambiguously clear that “there is no compelling evidence to justify denying the SC status to Dalit Muslims and Dalit Christians.”

Among all SCs, the study found that Dalit Muslims are the worst off, particularly in urban areas. In fact, the NSSO data shows them to be completely absent in the affluent group for urban India.

Dalit Christians, on the other hand, are moderately better off than other Dalits, except SC Sikhs. The pattern seen in the income levels extends to educational levels also, with Dalit Muslims coming in the rear in terms of literacy.

Caste bias


What is of particular concern is that the backwardness among Dalit Muslims and Dalit Christians has shown up in a sample survey despite their small population, and hence relatively low representation in the NSSO’s exercise. Such is the caste bias that the conclusion of the study is that religious affiliation makes no difference for the poorest 75 per cent of all Dalits.

The study commissioned in April last year, was conducted by Satish Deshpande of the Sociology Department at the Delhi School of Economics.

Finding the current regime discriminatory, Professor Deshpande has said in clear terms that “whether or not such discrimination can be proven in a court of law, it will surely weigh on the conscience of every fair-minded Indian.”


When after even conversion a person does not loose his dalit tag then what can say. I did news search and chose an Indian newspaper report to rest my case.

Regards

 

[Malang]

The Hindu : National : ‘They are Dalits first and then Muslims and Christians’

They are Dalits first and then Muslims and Christians’

Special Correspondent

NEW DELHI: The study by the National Commission for Minorities that has suggested reservation for Dalit Muslims and Christians has said that there is no room for disputing the fact that they are invariably regarded as ‘socially inferior’ communities by their co-religionists.” They are Dalits first and then Muslims and Christians, it noted.

Referring to the manner in which courts refused to recognise them as Scheduled Castes owing to lack of evidence, the study says that a lot of evidence has become available since the Soosai case — “the last major judicial pronouncement on this question.” In turn, Professor Deshpande has concluded that it is unambiguously clear that “there is no compelling evidence to justify denying the SC status to Dalit Muslims and Dalit Christians.”

Among all SCs, the study found that Dalit Muslims are the worst off, particularly in urban areas. In fact, the NSSO data shows them to be completely absent in the affluent group for urban India.

Dalit Christians, on the other hand, are moderately better off than other Dalits, except SC Sikhs. The pattern seen in the income levels extends to educational levels also, with Dalit Muslims coming in the rear in terms of literacy.

Caste bias


What is of particular concern is that the backwardness among Dalit Muslims and Dalit Christians has shown up in a sample survey despite their small population, and hence relatively low representation in the NSSO’s exercise. Such is the caste bias that the conclusion of the study is that religious affiliation makes no difference for the poorest 75 per cent of all Dalits.

The study commissioned in April last year, was conducted by Satish Deshpande of the Sociology Department at the Delhi School of Economics.

Finding the current regime discriminatory, Professor Deshpande has said in clear terms that “whether or not such discrimination can be proven in a court of law, it will surely weigh on the conscience of every fair-minded Indian.”


When after even conversion a person does not loose his dalit tag then what can say. I did news search and chose an Indian newspaper report to rest my case.

Regards

I agree Dalits don't lose the tag but Uppercaste Muslims discriminate against Dalit Muslims, Dalit
Sikhs are discriminated against by upper caste Sikhs. etc.

and this is what some Indian members were saying that Muslims discriminate amongst themselves on the basis of caste too..

and Discrimination is more widespread at times amongst followers of different religions than Hindus themselves... and is usually never highlighted or reported..

PS: There is a new Dalit Muslim party in North India to fight against discrimination by upper caste Muslims...
and BSP was a party created by a Dalit Sikh aka Kanshi Ram (which is in power in UP under Mayawati)

 

[salman nedian]

Dear SN,

You know the reason of PA going to SWAT and FATA were to quell both Pakistani as well others from copying the Taliban movement and setting up a Pakistani Taliban. Maulana F is a pakistani citizen so why are blaming Afghanistan Taliban for his deeds.

Regards

What I am saying is these are terrorist activities but you cannot mention events like Babri Masjid in Pakistan (I am also keeping terrorist activities in India aside).

 

[Malang]

What I am saying is these are terrorist activities but you cannot mention events like Babri Masjid in Pakistan (I am also keeping terrorist activities in India aside).

If I am not wrong hundreds of non Muslim places of worship have been destroyed or converted in Pakistan...

The only difference was in India it sparked a universal (passive) condemnation by a majority of the population.. and resulted in riots.. in Pakistan there was no resistance, not sure of condemnation and certainly no rioting..

I can provide sources if I try hard...