Paris Air Show 2019 - Thunders in Europe

[messiach]

Yeh to aap nay khan Sb wala chikka maar dia.

Hi,

As always---your comments remind me of the Noor Jehan song---

Kucch bhi na kaha
Kucch Keh Bhi Gaiay
Kucch ketay kehtay Reh Bi Gaiay

 

[Ultima Thule]

Ws-19 is to be a more powerful engine in the same size as the WS-13. It was recently successfully tested.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-9S5sBAOnFR4/UAtjKG-oEcI/AAAAAAAAAFA/dLNAiH0UonU/s1600/WS-X.jpg
https://3.bp.blogspot.com/--8SHVmVv...UvRuBndUCechImPj6n7-YQCKgBGAs/s1600/WS-19.jpg

WS-19 is still long way to go and WS-13 is almost completed, and i think its (WS-19) is basically for J-31/FC-31 with LOAN type nozzles, not for JF-17 @FuturePAF

 

[khanasifm]

So max take off went from, (irrespective of block ) to 13.5 tons from 12.3/12.7 tons per specs and wing span again list 8.5 and not 9.46 meters I think this is for single seat w/o wingtip missile on launcher end of story
dual seater wingspan is 9.46 meter vs 8.5 as listed on catiac website

As max takeoff went up so did max external load 4 ton plus

 

[FuturePAF]

WS-19 is still long way to go and WS-13 is almost completed, and i think its (WS-19) is basically for J-31/FC-31 with LOAN type nozzles, not for JF-17 @FuturePAF

WS-19 as with the WS-15 are the required engines the PLAAF and PLANAF will need to successful field 5th generation aircraft. The Chinese will do their best to master the technology, and PAF will buy from what is available when they are looking to buy.

The RD-93 has been a successful engine for the PAF, and they are setting up a rebuild/overhaul facility to accommodate it.

The RD-93MA version is at the same level as the current WS-13, so I don't expect that engine to be used, as it doesn't provide any additional benefit justify the switch over.

The WS-19 will have to demonstrate significant improvement in Thrust, MTBO, and improved Fuel Consumption possibly up to and including Super-cruise capability, if the manufacturer hopes to supply the JF-17 Fleet.

The WS-19 is a long term possibility, but the RD-93MA (9300 kg/~20,500 lb max thrust) is what the PAF looks to be banking on for the Block III and upgrading its Block I and II aircraft when their current engines end their lives.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/jf-17-to-get-a-new-engine-rd-93ma-with-9300kgf-thrust.193184/

 

[Ultima Thule]

WS-19 as with the WS-15 are the required engines the PLAAF and PLANAF will need to successful field 5th generation aircraft. The Chinese will do their best to master the technology, and PAF will buy from what is available when they are looking to buy.

The RD-93 has been a successful engine for the PAF, and they are setting up a rebuild/overhaul facility to accommodate it.

The RD-93MA version is at the same level as the current WS-13, so I don't expect that engine to be used, as it doesn't provide any additional benefit justify the switch over.

The WS-19 will have to demonstrate significant improvement in Thrust, MTBO, and improved Fuel Consumption possibly up to and including Super-cruise capability, if the manufacturer hopes to supply the JF-17 Fleet.

The WS-19 is a long term possibility, but the RD-93MA (9300 kg/~20,500 lb max thrust) is what the PAF looks to be banking on for the Block III and upgrading its Block I and II aircraft when their current engines end their lives.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/jf-17-to-get-a-new-engine-rd-93ma-with-9300kgf-thrust.193184/

so what about engine weight its not design for JFT if we put WS-19 in JFT, it will degrade a performance of JFT (remember JFT is light weight jet), WS-19 is/will best for upcoming project AZM (5th gen jet for PAF), just my 2 cent bro @FuturePAF

 

[FuturePAF]

so what about engine weight its not design for JFT if we put WS-19 in JFT, it will degrade a performance of JFT (remember JFT is light weight jet), WS-19 is/will best for upcoming project AZM (5th gen jet for PAF), just my 2 cent bro @FuturePAF

The WS-19 is suppose to be nearly the same size and weight as the WS-13, just made from more modern parts in a more modern design, to allow for higher thrust. It is akin to the GE-414 which is fielding on the F/A-18E/F but also the Gripen E and the original GE-404 engine.

 

[Ultima Thule]

The WS-19 is suppose to be nearly the same size and weight as the WS-13, just made from more modern parts in a more modern design, to allow for higher thrust. It is akin to the GE-414 which is fielding on the F/A-18E/F but also the Gripen E and the original GE-404 engine.

stealth nozzles is/will not needed for JFT (JFT is not a stealth jet) and remember bro RD-93/WS-13E is reaching almost same thrust level of GE-414 21,000-22,000 LBS) @FuturePAF

 

[FuturePAF]

stealth nozzles is/will not needed for JFT (JFT is not a stealth jet) and remember bro RD-93/WS-13E is reaching almost same thrust level of GE-414 21,000-22,000 LBS) @FuturePAF

"Stealth nozzles" (not thrust vectoring nozzles) are not only for stealth jets. They can reduce the Infrared signature of a standard aircraft in the rear aspect, and that little bit could help it survive against a high off-boresight WVR IR missile, that needs a certain minimum signature to get a lock on a target.

The Stealth (LOAN: Low Observable Asymmetric Nozzle) for the F-16; can be applied to a non-stealth fighter, it is not a TVC nozzle
http://www.f-16.net/g3/var/resizes/f-16-photos/album11/album28/aam.jpg?m=1371917522
http://www.f-16.net/f-16_versions_article20.html
Potentially the Chinese variant could be modified to remove the TVC section, to save weight, and keep the RCS and IR reduction aspects
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DZ1ZSUlWkAEucPk.jpg
It would be similar to the Nozzles on the F-35 that don't move; as in the F-35A and F-35C
http://aviationweek.com/site-files/...s/uploads/2017/06/28/SOSV-1_Pratt-Whitney.jpg

Also, I wish it were true the RD-93/WS-13E was at the same level as the GE 414. If you can find an article showing it will perform at that thrust level I would be glad. All I saw was the RD-93MA is to be a 9,300 kg/20,500 lb max thrust engine, and the WS-13E maybe its local equivalent.

I suspect the engine in development from these articles are the WS-19; which still needs time to develop, but we should keep an eye on, just in case it matures enough to become a viable upgrade to the JF-17 Fleet.
https://web.archive.org/web/2015081...ycenter.net/research/pubID.219/pub_detail.asp

"According to the Russian media, the original contract for the fighter's RD-93 engine covered 100 powerplants with an option for 500 more, and an uprated 20,500-lb.-thrust version, the RD-93MA, is under development. Meanwhile, one JF-17 is reported to be flying in China with the Guizhou WS-13 engine."
https://aviationweek.com/awin/china-s-warplane-industry-expands

 

[khanasifm]

Rd-93 fuel consumption is as good as western engine in mil/dry but its wet fuel consumption is high vs western engine

 

[American Pakistani]

PAF JF-17 Thunder gets swarmed by aviation enthusiasts at Paris Air Show
National
Web Desk
June 23,2019
PAF JF-17 Thunder witnessed hordes of aviation enthusiasts who turned up to witness the dynamic aerial display on the final day of the 53rd Paris Air Show at Le Bourget, Paris.

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ISLAMABAD: PAF JF-17 Thunder witnessed hordes of aviation enthusiasts who turned up to witness the dynamic aerial display on the final day of the 53rd Paris Air Show at Le Bourget, Paris.

The venue welcomed ecstatic spectators of all ages on the weekend as the show opened its doors to the public on the last day.

Elegantly displayed alongside other aircraft and defence equipment, the locally manufactured JF-17 Thunder remained the star attraction of the show.

The eager crowd was briefed about the operational capabilities and its sophisticated weaponry by the PAF personnel as the public appeared to be in high spirits to observe the pride of Pakistan and had also proceeded to take selfies and photographs with the PAF contingent members.

Apart from the display, the PAC manufactured aircraft also presented a farewell aerobatics performance as the crowd in Paris cheered seeing the aircraft roar in the skies.

Participation of PAF contingent in the largest air show of the world has provided an excellent opportunity to showcase its cutting edge capabilities while also giving an opportunity to potential buyers to assess its immense potential in the international market.

https://www.thenews.com.pk/latest/4...med-by-aviation-enthusiasts-at-paris-air-show

 

[xyxmt]

Guess everyone wanted to take selfie with SU killer

 

[Ultima Thule]

"Stealth nozzles" (not thrust vectoring nozzles) are not only for stealth jets. They can reduce the Infrared signature of a standard aircraft in the rear aspect, and that little bit could help it survive against a high off-boresight WVR IR missile, that needs a certain minimum signature to get a lock on a target.

The Stealth (LOAN: Low Observable Asymmetric Nozzle) for the F-16; can be applied to a non-stealth fighter, it is not a TVC nozzle
http://www.f-16.net/g3/var/resizes/f-16-photos/album11/album28/aam.jpg?m=1371917522
http://www.f-16.net/f-16_versions_article20.html
Potentially the Chinese variant could be modified to remove the TVC section, to save weight, and keep the RCS and IR reduction aspects
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DZ1ZSUlWkAEucPk.jpg
It would be similar to the Nozzles on the F-35 that don't move; as in the F-35A and F-35C
http://aviationweek.com/site-files/...s/uploads/2017/06/28/SOSV-1_Pratt-Whitney.jpg

Also, I wish it were true the RD-93/WS-13E was at the same level as the GE 414. If you can find an article showing it will perform at that thrust level I would be glad. All I saw was the RD-93MA is to be a 9,300 kg/20,500 lb max thrust engine, and the WS-13E maybe its local equivalent.

I suspect the engine in development from these articles are the WS-19; which still needs time to develop, but we should keep an eye on, just in case it matures enough to become a viable upgrade to the JF-17 Fleet.
https://web.archive.org/web/2015081...ycenter.net/research/pubID.219/pub_detail.asp

"According to the Russian media, the original contract for the fighter's RD-93 engine covered 100 powerplants with an option for 500 more, and an uprated 20,500-lb.-thrust version, the RD-93MA, is under development. Meanwhile, one JF-17 is reported to be flying in China with the Guizhou WS-13 engine."
https://aviationweek.com/awin/china-s-warplane-industry-expands

now tell me bro does USAF or any air force that using F-16 using this type of nozzles to their fleets (LOAN) its experimental project for developing LOAN type nozzles for 5th gen jets, just like they did same for DSI development for F-35, and also bro if you fit LOAN tpye engine to 4th gen jets its increase its (JF-17 Block-3) cost at massive level, as you assume that WS-19 is not ready in near future and revealing of B3 is around the corner (expected in Spt/Oct this year by some senior members here on PDF) there will be least chance that B3 will get WS-19,if PAC/PAF have a plan to introduce next upgrades to JF-17 aka B4 than i could assume that it will use WS-19, just my 2 cent bro @FuturePAF

 

[American Pakistani]

Guess everyone wanted to take selfie with SU killer

That's what the first thought came in my mind. All those crowds wanted to see a Su 30 killer.

JF17 will always be known as Su30 killer. This is the high cost india paid after killing Pakistani crow and a tree.

 

[PurAzamBaHadaf]

Waiting for Indians to start comparing Tejas and why PAF doesn't bring Thunder when Tejas is in town

 

[Ultima Thule]

Thanks to Abhi non done guys