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Panama Case - Post Verdict Discussion and Updates

Waisy judges ko koi credit na dena...ziadti hai....

Obviously IK has a big role in panama papers case and even Sheikh Rashid too.. but Imran Khan did 126 days dharna on election rigging issue too.. uss par kia hua?

Justice Khosa and Justice Gulzar took the initial bold step of disqualifying NS...when he was still PM....future was unknown...tht whether he will be disqualified eventually or not...Justice Khosa and Gulzar's verdict could have remained a minority verdict too...aur uske baad jo inn dono judges ke saath hota..woh sab jaantay hain......

IK and Sheikh Rashid could be more fearless because IK doesnt have his children in Pak and Sh Rashid has no family.. these judges..and even JIT members..had to worry abt safety of their families too.....as everyone knows what sharifs are capable of...

A person can be more fearless regd his own safety but almost every one becomes buzdil..regd one's children's safety and honor

Justice Khosa and his family's character assasination started on sm..since 20th April last yr.. dont want to repeat here what propaganda PML N sm team has been doing against his sister...

Its not only abt disqualifying NS.. the kind of harsh note..tht Justice Khosa wrote against sitting PM...tht too of takht e lahore....his sarcastic tone.....only a fearless and extremely daring person could have done tht...and its exactly the reason..tht his verdict gave me hope....not only his disqualifying NS....but the manner in which he disqualified NS was the real thing.....

We cant blame panama bench for the decision of earlier useless CJ..who only accepted this petition once dharna could erupt into a civil war....

If IK was offered money..and he refused tht...dont u think these judges would also have been offered huge money too? So they refused all sorts of temptations too....even JIT members....

So crediting tht all this happened only because of IK...is not correct.. we all saw how his efforts couldnt bear any fruit in election rigging case....

Not taking any credit from judges, but we have all seen that courts have a habit to go into hibernation after some time. I am only saying that each institution has some responsibilities, and they are officially required to perform these responsibilities. Good judges get praise in Pakistan because they do not give in to pressure. But only in Pakistan these kind of judges are praised. Have you ever heard of any other country where judges are praised because of providing justice? No.. because people know it is expected from them.

Mir Shakeel ki minnatain karna, Jang ke kameenay sahafion ko baaizzat bari kardena, Shareef family ke khilaaf koi action na lena, yeh sab soi huee judiciary ki Aala misaalain hain.. Kyun? Because they aren't being pushed by anyone. This is what I am referring to..

Again saying, I am not taking any credit from the judges or JIT members.. and you know me very well how we have supported our judiciary and honest bureaucracy on this forum throughout this time, but they again need some push in my opinion.. don't you think Mir Shakeel's arrest should be ordered?

Judges NS ko clean chit dena bhi nahi de saktay thay? Kiun? If judges wanted to favor sharifs..unke pass bhtt se raastay thay bhaee... kia election main rigging ke proofs nahi thay? Dhandli commission ne kiya kia? 1000 baatein likhnay ke baad keh diya ke koi planned rigging nahi hui.... aisa hi koi faisla yahaan bhi aasakta tha.. humaray law main bhtt se loopholes hain jis main sharifs ko favor kiya jaa sakta tha..bilkol jaisay election dhandlii commission ne kiya... sab se bari aur recent examply rigging commission ki hai...

Bilkul theek keh rahi hain aap.. but nowadays, I don't know why they are showing so much flexibility to Shareefs and Jang/ Geo..
 
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but nowadays, I don't know why they are showing so much flexibility to Shareefs and Jang/ Geo..

Kia karen latka den?

Process hota hai bhai. Wo to banktrupcy file karke Band hojaega.

Sabarsszzzzz launday
 
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Aur jahaan tak baat hia IK ke pressure ki....tu woh sab tu Hudaibya case main bhi tha.. everyone was almost sure ke hudaibya tu reopen ho hi jayega as there were so many evidences .. people were saying its an open and shut case..but hua kiya? Wohi IK aur SR ka pressure tha....media hype bhi uss case ki bhi bhtt thee.. Justice Khosa ka note bhi tha on hudaibya case...panama case ke saaray judges ke remarks bhi thay....

There was no pressure from PTI to be honest.. aik do press conferences ki theen bass..

Khair, we can't compare Justice Isa with honest judges at all... but we must give credit to everyone who was part of this case, IK, judges, JIT, Sh. Rasheed (except Jamaat e Non Islami)..

Kia karen latka den?

Process hota hai bhai. Wo to banktrupcy file karke Band hojaega.

Sabarsszzzzz launday

Arey bhayya, latkaanay ko kaun bol raha hai? contempt main 1, 1 month ki saza honi chahiey saaray zameer farosh sahafion ko..
 
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Arey bhayya, latkaanay ko kaun bol raha hai? contempt main 1, 1 month ki saza honi chahiey saaray zameer farosh sahafion ko..

Masla different hai bhai

Technically prove karna bareek beeni ka kaam hai. Time lagega
 
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Judges NS ko clean chit dena bhi nahi de saktay thay? Kiun? If judges wanted to favor sharifs..unke pass bhtt se raastay thay bhaee... kia election main rigging ke proofs nahi thay? Dhandli commission ne kiya kia? 1000 baatein likhnay ke baad keh diya ke koi planned rigging nahi hui.... aisa hi koi faisla yahaan bhi aasakta tha.

Election Rigging walay case main TORs hi aisay thy kay Imran Khan ko prove kerna tha 3 puncture lagay. Systematic Rigging hui jo yea ker hi nahi sakta tha. Aik time per IK ki 5 main say 4 demands maan li thi PMLN nay. Is nay wo bhi reject ker di kay muhhy NS ka resignation chaye us k baad APS ho gya aur IK ko dharna khatam kerna para. TORs ki bari aye tu face saving k lye is ko maanana para kay yea evidence day ga kay systematic rigging hui aur 35 pucnture ki audio tape jo is k pass thi hi nahi.

Registrar ne agar ye case reject kiya tha tu iss ka blame hum panama judges ko nahi de saktay..
Ap ka khyaal hai kay ager IK lockdown na kerta tu SC nay phir bhi petition SC registrar say mangwa ker accept ker leni thi? NO! Lockdown na hota tu Panama ki petition kisi file main band hoti abhi tak



Agar judges chahtay tu law main koi bhi loophole dhoond saktay thay...aur jaisy pehle sharifs ke favor main verdicts aatay rahay hain..ab bhi aajata..

Sharif family key favour main verdict is lye atay rahy kay koi pochnay wala tha hi nahi in ko. Kon pochta jab SC nay 9 saal baad review petition accept ki NS ki? Zardari? IK ka us time itna fame hi nahi tha politics main. Wo ab ja ker itna strong hua hai.


Hum tu JIT bannay par bhi yehi soch rahay thay ke JIT ka matlab hai matti pao..aur shayad judges matti pao karna chahtay hain.. judges main agar himmat ya neeyat ki kami hoti tu woh kabhi bhi aisy members choose na kartay jo itni honesty se kaam kartay aur na hi judges itni strict monitoring karty ke sharif family ki saari tactics against JIT fail hojaatein... agar judges chahtay tu JIT ko Hussain Nawaz ki pic leak par hi controversial banaa saktay thay.. Imagine..if Qazi Faez Isa or Dost Muhammad was part of this bench? Pihr kia hota?

Again pora Pakistan jaan chuka tha Sharif Family jhoot bol rahi hai. Aur 20 Apr k programs open ker k dekh lain sab analysts anchors nay criticize hi kya tha judgement ko kay itna kuch honay k baad bhi JIT ki zaroorat nahi thi. Yea baat Ex Judges bhi ker rahy thy. Hamain dar is lye tha key Pakistan main hota hi aisa aya hai kay kisi na kisi tarhan bach jatay hain NRO lay ker. Is bar Raheel aur Bajwa nay nahi kya.

Rahi baat time barred issue ki...tu iss par bhi already precedent mojood tha..NS ke hi case ka.....plane hijacking case which was reopened after 10 yrs and decided in favor of NS again..

Tu hudaibya case main bhi sab kuch wohi tha....sirf judges main farq tha..IK aur Sh Rashid kuch nahi karsakay...hudaibya case main

Aik tarhan say acha kya k 1 decision in k favour main day dya wo bhi technical ki basis per yea nahi kaha kay inhon nay chori nahi ki hui us main. Sab baat timing ki hai. Yea hi Hudaibiya ka Case ka decision Panama ki verdict say pehlay ata tu IK SR nay pressue aur rakhna tha aur SC shayed Hudaibiya Case open ker deti pressure main per yea decision aya Panama k baad aur IK SR ka objective NS say resignation lenay ka tha jo pora ho gya.

Again main sirf yea keh raha hon kay credit sab ko jata hai. SC aur IK sab ko. Per zada credit IK ka banta hai. Wo na hota tu jis tarhan baki chooriyon per 60 saal say sab 1 week rola dal ker chup ho jatay hain is per bhi ho jana tha.

Credit Bajwa aur Raheel ko bhi jata hai kay inhon nay apnay baghal bachay Nawaz ko is dafa koi safe passage nahi dya warna Army nay is ko goud main rakha hua hota hai har baar.
 
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Again pora Pakistan jaan chuka tha Sharif Family jhoot bol rahi hai. Aur 20 Apr k programs open ker k dekh lain sab analysts anchors nay criticize hi kya tha judgement ko kay itna kuch honay k baad bhi JIT ki zaroorat nahi thi. Yea baat Ex Judges bhi ker rahy thy. Hamain dar is lye tha key Pakistan main hota hi aisa aya hai kay kisi na kisi tarhan bach jatay hain NRO lay ker. Is bar Raheel aur Bajwa nay nahi kya.

Aik tarhan say acha kya k 1 decision in k favour main day dya wo bhi technical ki basis per yea nahi kaha kay inhon nay chori nahi ki hui us main. Sab baat timing ki hai. Yea hi Hudaibiya ka Case ka decision Panama ki verdict say pehlay ata tu IK SR nay pressue aur rakhna tha aur SC shayed Hudaibiya Case open ker deti pressure main per yea decision aya Panama k baad aur IK SR ka objective NS say resignation lenay ka tha jo pora ho gya.

Poora Pakistan hudaibya case aur election rigging case main hbi jaanta tha ke hudaibya case main corruption hui hai aur election main rigging hui hai..uss ka kia hua?

Aap ne shayad hudaibya case ka verdict parha nahi hai.... ya aap ko yaad nahi... hudaibya case main sirf technical relief nahi diya gaya....sharifs ko..infact unhien pooray tareeqe se defend kiya gaya hai...aur kahaa hai ke...sharifs ko iss case main victimise kiya gaya hai ....aap hudaibya verdict ko dobara parhein ge tu aap ko yaad aajayega.. aisa ghatya faisla main ne apni zindagi main nahi dehka na parha.. sharifs ko poori tarah defend kiya aur unhien victim show kiya hai
 
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Poora Pakistan hudaibya case aur election rigging case main hbi jaanta tha ke hudaibya case main corruption hui hai aur election main rigging hui hai..uss ka kia hua?

IK SR nay jo gain kerna tha ker lya Panama Case say. As I mentioned sab timing ki baat hai. Yea case Panama say pehlay hota tu scene diff hota. Election Rigging ka I have already explained it was IK's fault! Jis cheez ko sabit hi nahi ker saktay thy k planning say rigging hui us kay TORs kyun maanay is nay. It was his fault.

Aap ne shayad hudaibya case ka verdict parha nahi hai.... ya aap ko yaad nahi... hudaibya case main sirf technical relief nahi diya gaya....sharifs ko..infact unhien pooray tareeqe se defend kiya gaya hai...aur kahaa hai ke...sharifs ko iss case main victimise kiya gaya hai ....aap hudaibya verdict ko dobara parhein ge tu aap ko yaad aajayega.. aisa ghatya faisla main ne apni zindagi main nahi dehka na parha.. sharifs ko poori tarah defend kiya aur unhien victim show kiya hai

Chalain Review Petition main hai yea case tu Judges khud daleri dikhayen aur case ki date laga lain. Ya us k lye bhi pehlay koi lockdown kerna paray ga phri zameer jagain gayy sab judges key?

Simple si baat hai IK lockdown wala zoor na lagata aur pressure build na kerta tu is Panama Case ka kuch nahi hona tha. Yea Fact hai! Aur Judges koi chunnay munnay kaakay nahi hain k SC registrar k pass jo file ati ho tu wo parhtay hi na hon. Isi Duniya main rehtay hain un ko news ati hon gi k yea petition aye hai aur wo parhtay bhi hon gay. Itna zameer jagay thy tu yea usi time CJ say keh ker us ki hearing ki date lagwa detay. Nahi hua aisa.

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لاہور:کھوسہ صاحب کی کیسزلائیودکھانےکی درخواست پرغورکریں گے،چیف جسٹس ثاقب نثار
Sab say pehlay NAB cases ki live coverage ki jaye aur ho sakay tu JIT ki audio video bhi release ki jaye


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In a meeting at Jati Umra, one of the PML-N leaders suggested to attack Adyala Jail in case Nawaz Sharif is convicted - Mohammad Malick reveals

 
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Chalain Review Petition main hai yea case tu Judges khud daleri dikhayen aur case ki date laga lain. Ya us k lye bhi pehlay koi lockdown kerna paray ga phri zameer jagain gayy sab judges key?

Simple si baat hai IK lockdown wala zoor na lagata aur pressure build na kerta tu is Panama Case ka kuch nahi hona tha. Yea Fact hai! Aur Judges koi chunnay munnay kaakay nahi hain k SC registrar k pass jo file ati ho tu wo parhtay hi na hon. Isi Duniya main rehtay hain un ko news ati hon gi k yea petition aye hai aur wo parhtay bhi hon gay. Itna zameer jagay thy tu yea usi time CJ say keh ker us ki hearing ki date lagwa detay. Nahi hua aisa.

Main tu duaa karrahi hoon ke review petition na hi lagay..cpz review petition tu wohi judges suntay hain jinhon ne verdict diya hota hai.. verdict tu change nahi hoga...us se hbi zoada ghatya faisla aajayega..jitna pehle aaya tha....

NAB ne larger bench ka kaha tha lekin mera naih khyal ke larger bench banay ga.. wohi judges honge tu review petition ki hearing na hi ho tu acha hai
 
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Main tu duaa karrahi hoon ke review petition na hi lagay..cpz review petition tu wohi judges suntay hain jinhon ne verdict diya hota hai.. verdict tu change nahi hoga...us se hbi zoada ghatya faisla aajayega..jitna pehle aaya tha....

NAB ne larger bench ka kaha tha lekin mera naih khyal ke larger bench banay ga.. wohi judges honge tu review petition ki hearing na hi ho tu acha hai

NAB kay lawyer nay case hi nahi contest kya tha sahi. Jis journalist nay hearing dekhi hai us nay yea hi kaha hai k lawyer ki koi tyari hi nahi hoti thi aisa lag raha hota tha kay yea Sharif Family ka lawyer hai. Us time NAB k lawyer ki appointment ka bhi masla tha. Sahi say larain case tu review petition main bhi case open ho jaye
 
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NAB kay lawyer nay case hi nahi contest kya tha sahi. Jis journalist nay hearing dekhi hai us nay yea hi kaha hai k lawyer ki koi tyari hi nahi hoti thi aisa lag raha hota tha kay yea Sharif Family ka lawyer hai. Us time NAB k lawyer ki appointment ka bhi masla tha. Sahi say larain case tu review petition main bhi case open ho jaye

Baat NAB ke case argue karnay ki nahi thee.. hudaibya bench ne JIT ko bhi criticise kiya tha.... aur unhon ne tu NAB prosecutor ko yahaan tak keh diya tha ke agar ab aap ne Justice Khosa ka verdict quote kiya tu aap par contempt lagaayein ge.. aur jo poora verdict aaya hai..tht is only a defense of sharif family and nothing else...

Koi neutral judge kisi aur senior judge ke baaray main publicly nahi kehta ke aap ne unka verdict quote kiya tu contempt lagaayein ge..even if they doesnt agree iwth the verdict.. panama verdict ke baaray main bhi Qazi Faez Isa ne ek aur case main kaha ke case london flats ka tha verdict iqaama par aaya...same sharif family's narrative...
Media talkshows main hudaibya case par baat karnay par ban lagaa diya tha..hudaibya bench ne... kiun? Agar unki neeyat theek thee tu unhein ban lagaanay ki kia zuroorat thee..aur J Khosa ke verdict se unhein itni kiya problem thee ke uss par contempt lagaanay ka bola.. beshak minority verdict hi ho?
JIT ko bhi criticise kiya tha remarks main...
Hudaibya main theek hai NAB ne achi tarh case plead nahi kiya hoga but wahan clearly judges ki neeyat theek naih thee.. wohi NAB aur Chairman NAB ...panama case main hbi thay.. us par bhi tu verdict diya tha..judges ne

Hudaibya bench judges ki clearly neeyat theek nahi thee... You should read ke kis tarah sharif family ko defend kiya hai hudaibya verdict main aur unhien kis tarah victim portray kia hai
 
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Not taking any credit from judges, but we have all seen that courts have a habit to go into hibernation after some time.
@Farah Sohail he has a point here, old habits die hard. Let's hope this habit of going into hibernation also goes away with intent rather than chance.

There was no pressure from PTI to be honest.. aik do press conferences ki theen bass..
That was the biggest mistake that lingered on from their policy of wait and watch instead of a proactive and scruff of the neck type pressure on PMLN that would have had considerable influence and pressure on courts.

Aap ne shayad hudaibya case ka verdict parha nahi hai.... ya aap ko yaad nahi... hudaibya case main sirf technical relief nahi diya gaya....sharifs ko..infact unhien pooray tareeqe se defend kiya gaya hai...aur kahaa hai ke...sharifs ko iss case main victimise kiya gaya hai ....aap hudaibya verdict ko dobara parhein ge tu aap ko yaad aajayega.. aisa ghatya faisla main ne apni zindagi main nahi dehka na parha.. sharifs ko poori tarah defend kiya aur unhien victim show kiya hai
Agreed 100%.

The thing that also bothered me immensely was why did PTI not raise all hell on that Gag order by the three member bench to comment on Hudaibya appeal case?
But the other logical question that comes to my mind and in agreement with @QatariPrince is that...

Why did the CJP not take suo moto on that Gag order and the threat by Judge to prosecutor NAB regarding giving reference to Justice Khosa verdict?

Why did the CJP not ask for the case files of review as it had such a gaping loop hole in its verdict that A CRIMINAL CASE CANNOT BE TIME BARRED NO MATTER HOW MUCH TIME HAS PASSED?

So there is obvious and unexplainable soft treatment towards Sharif family, be it Hudaibya or contempt of court by "MARYAM BETI" and Bakvas Sharif. The hikmat at play is beyond our legal know-how but what about the legal experts who are just as stumped at reluctance of CJP to media ban Baap bayti...

IK SR nay jo gain kerna tha ker lya Panama Case say. As I mentioned sab timing ki baat hai. Yea case Panama say pehlay hota tu scene diff hota. Election Rigging ka I have already explained it was IK's fault!
I am sure you are not going to agree with me here but IK failed to counter the false narrative of Maryam and Bakvas due to his political and legal inaction after Panama decision...

The thought that....IK nay jo gain kerna tha ker lya Panama Case say...was the biggest mistake to not follow up and breath down Nawaz's throat outside trial court...clear and literal walk over was given by IK to PMLN to create and spread false narrative and resurrect the Panama Dead PMLN back to life.

Simple si baat hai IK lockdown wala zoor na lagata aur pressure build na kerta tu is Panama Case ka kuch nahi hona tha. Yea Fact hai! Aur Judges koi chunnay munnay kaakay nahi hain k SC registrar k pass jo file ati ho tu wo parhtay hi na hon.
I totally agree with you here.

IK was the single reason for forcing SCP to take up Panama case.

No judge can take that away from IK. CJP raised the SCP into action after that and only after IK forced the stake holders by his lockdown to take due notice.

My only point of contention with IK or PTI is that awful policy of wait and watch that literally gave Maryam a chance on a golden platter to resurrect a dying PMLN and bring it back on life support system to drag the Caracas this far close to the elections.

To put it mildly, it was a grave political miscalculation on the part of PTI think tank.

Sab say pehlay NAB cases ki live coverage ki jaye aur ho sakay tu JIT ki audio video bhi release ki jaye
Yeh kaam sab say pehlay hona chaheye...It's all about timing and this is the time to take advantage of the Sharifs own demand and beat them at their own game.

And Other than an odd statement, yet again we don't see PTI actively pursuing this point politically that Audio visual interviews and interrogation of Sharifs should be made public as a step towards televising the trial court proceedings live.

Game is pretty much clear:Establishment has created fake parties in three provinces;PSP,MMA& Balochistan party to damage the main political parties in those provinces.In Punjab,they have created Milli muslim league,Laback & South Punjab group to checkmate PML(N).Generals want a controlled democracy in Pakistan;they deliberately are damaging the major political forces across Pakistan.Generals are not loyal to anyone in this political game,they have created fake political parties in all the provinces to destroy the sanity of democracy ,and to have more control over the country after the elections.
Apna churan baichtay huway aap bhol gay babu...PMLN...You forgot The mother of all fake parties created by General ZIA and spoon fed by establishment to help win their every election. What a Nazaryati party indeed.
 
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@ red How can CJ take a suo moto against a verdict given by a bench of SC? No matter how illogical and biased it is..but CJ cannot take suo moto against a verdict.. this isnt possible... it will be recipe for chaos.... i dont think its posisble legally/constituitionally ...

@ blue i think no one could hate those remarks by Qazi Faez Isa more than me..... but i dont think ke aisy remarks par suo moto liya jaa sakta hai unfortunately..... judges ke remarks par koi action nahi liyaa jasakta ....

revolt hojayegi SC main... Qazi Faez Isa and his group of judges want exactly that.. they keep making provoking remarks time and again so tht CJ and pther judges react..but they are ignoring.. even in Sh Rashid disqualification case...Qazi Faez Isa remarked ke panama case was about London flats but iqama par faisla aaya..same sharif family's narrative

Although Cj did a taunt on QaI Faez Isa in party presidency case or 62-1f case where some lawyer quoted na earlier minority verdict by CJ himself..then CJ remarked ke kahin contempt na lag jaye.....i saw this in a vid...interestingly by geo reporters......

So this is the max CJ can do....he cant take anyother action on any verdict or remarks by other judges
 
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@ red How can CJ take a suo moto against a verdict goven a bench of SC? No matter how illogical and biased it is..but CJ cannot take suo moto against a verdict.. this isnt possible... it will be recipe for chaos.... i dont think its posisble legally/constituitionally ...
You are right, lol...I was being rhetorical and thinking what was possible may be under Ch Iftikhar.

In retrospect, Simple, it is also legally and constitutionally not ethical to ridicule fellow judge's in another case about some other.

Apply the same logic CJP did in the contempt speech case by LHC as in: use mis-reporting as an excuse to get back at them.

All it required was just the same kind of nerve that the three Judge Bench showed against Panama judges. Look them in the eye and put them in their place using the excuse of alarming mis-reporting that would have turned out to be shamefully correct, lol...too much to ask I guess.

Although Cj did a taunt on QaI Faez Isa in party presidency case or 62-1f case where some lawyer quoted na earlier minority verdict by CJ himself..then CJ remarked ke kahin contempt na lag jaye.....i saw this in a vid...interestingly by geo reporters......

So this is the max CJ can do....he cant take anyother action on any verdict or remarks by other judges

I get it that he can't take any other action on any verdict or remarks by other judges but he can put the record straight like he did in LHC verdict Suo moto about Maryam Beti contempt gag mis-reported in media.

"Maryam Beti" must have twisted head to toe after CJP remark about her, lol, sounded like such a troll too, lol...
 
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