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Panama Case - Post Verdict Discussion and Updates

One thing is for sure now. Sharifs are not coming back any time soon as they most likely won't decide on chopping their legs off at this point.

Their cases will not go ahead in absentia as the SC has said in some verdict that it is unconstitutional to prosecute in absentia.

This means that cases have, after all, ended up in a DARK ALLEY as the judges wrote in Panama decision that they won't let that happen, yet this is exactly what is happening.

The million dollar question is:

WHAT HAVE THE JUDGES TO SAY IN RESPONSE TO THE CURRENT SCENARIO WHERE THE CASES LITERALLY STAND RIGHT IN THE CENTRE OF THEIR OWN DREADED DARK ALLEY?

JUDICIAL DIS-FUNCTIONALISM ???
The very basis of our state of affairs.

@El Sidd @Realistic Change @Arsalan @The Accountant @Farah Sohail @Verve @Guvera @El_Swordsmen @Hyprion Please tell me if I am wrong. Please tell me that there is some other way.

I wish someone have crystal ball- I hear what you are saying, and agree to it in principle.

@Farah Sohail, @PakSword and @Arsalan must remember - I always say:

“Incremental change is NOT POSSIBLE in current system, as it’s hijacked by beneficiaries”

However, Nawaz and his Tupperware have to return; or he will be even more discredited than Altaf Hussain. He will be replaced and finished politically within hours as his strength is not ideology but power and money. He’s no BB who can keep party intact in absentia.

When he was riding the crest of so called Jamhoriyat against dictator his party blew up in bubbles in days. Now, he’s officially tainted.

The issue becomes; power brokers and one of the most important amongst those but least talked about are bureaucrats who are in bed with Sharifs
to save their own skin.

A classified report in a western country was released few weeks ago highlighting $100 million and above account holders without known sources fearing its drug money etc.,. It was shared with Govt of Pak as well; guess what; hundreds of bureaucrats were identified and hence given “Clearance” by GOP to not take action as it’s legitimate money. Ha!
 
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I wish someone have crystal ball- I hear what you are saying, and agree to it in principle.

@Farah Sohail, @PakSword and @Arsalan must remember - I always say:

“Incremental change is NOT POSSIBLE in current system, as it’s hijacked by beneficiaries”

However, Nawaz and his Tupperware have to return; or he will be even more discredited than Altaf Hussain. He will be replaced and finished politically within hours as his strength is not ideology but power and money. He’s no BB who can keep party intact in absentia.

When he was riding the crest of so called Jamhoriyat against dictator his party blew up in bubbles in days. Now, he’s officially tainted.

The issue becomes; power brokers and one of the most important amongst those but least talked about are bureaucrats who are in bed with Sharifs
to save their own skin.

A classified report in a western country was released few weeks ago highlighting $100 million and above account holders without known sources fearing its drug money etc.,. It was shared with Govt of Pak as well; guess what; hundreds of bureaucrats were identified and hence given “Clearance” by GOP to not take action as it’s legitimate money. Ha!

Maryam has made it clear in her tweet yesterday tht NS wont appear in accountability court...
For him to return, and for cases to proceed against him, judiciously..and meaningfully....and (not just for the sake of it..naam nihaad) role of monitoring judge is again very critical....

Please please...someone tell me.. Tht theres still even a slight chance tht J Ijaz ul Ahsan might actually donsomething? I know..am asking for a miracle... Abhi aisa hota nazar nahi aaraha...but kahin se tu koi umeed milay..ke J Ijaz ul Ahsan kuch karein ge..,..koi umeed.. thori si dilaa dey :( although as Shane said..tht the actual time when Ijaz ul Ahsan could do something meaningful is over..tht is when NS was still in pakistan.. He should hv pushed NAB to put this family on ECL..

But abhi bhi agar J Ijaz ul Ahsan jaag jayein...kuch initiative lein.. NAB officials ko summon kar ke grill karein tu SHAYAD ..kuch ho jaye.. I know. I am hoping for nothing less than a miracle but..... @Realistic Change is there ANY hope left ..regd this? :(
 
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Maryam has made it clear in her tweet yesterday tht NS wont appear in accountability court...
For him to return, and for cases to proceed against him, judiciously..and meaningfully....and (not just for the sake of it..naam nihaad) role of monitoring judge is again very critical....

Please please...someone tell me.. Tht theres still even a slight chance tht J Ijaz ul Ahsan might actually donsomething? I know..am asking for a miracle... Abhi aisa hota nazar nahi aaraha...but kahin se tu koi umeed milay..ke J Ijaz ul Ahsan kuch karein ge..,..koi umeed.. thori si dilaa dey :( although as Shane said..tht the actual time when Ijaz ul Ahsan could do something meaningful is over..tht is when NS was still in pakistan.. He should hv pushed NAB to put this family on ECL..

But abhi bhi agar J Ijaz ul Ahsan jaag jayein...kuch initiative lein.. NAB officials ko summon kar ke grill karein tu SHAYAD ..kuch ho jaye.. I know. I am hoping for nothing less than a miracle but..... @Realistic Change is there ANY hope left ..regd this? :(

Maryam herself will be as irrelevant as Nawaz. I know for sure; $harifs are history - albeit a gory one!

What choices do $harifs have now?

1. Appear in courts on 28th
2. Delay appearing, if this; then
3. Till when?
4. Hope for NRO
5. Exile

If AAZ assures support for passing the bills from Upper House, then he might let SKA dissolve assembly (as also discussed in meeting in London) after achieving the goals, since AAZ is a politician, he’s squeezing max out of Sharifs now, hence in current situation Nawaz is on his own.

Now Golden goal is to reach March 18’ in one piece.

And it’s not going to happen - there is no way that Nawaz and his family including Shahbaz’s family can be saved.

Every option listed above has too much weight to bring his family, and party down.

As for Monitoring Judge - it will not play the role of Chairman NAB nor DG FIA but all in good time - he will do the “right” thing! :)

————

Reports: Planned chaos bubble to start soon.

1. Fuel Shortages (Fake)
2. Electricity Tariffs to be increased substantially

Putting blame on disqualification.
 
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Yaani bohat nazuq surat e haal hai.

@PakSword sir ghareeb hone ka behtreen faida uthaya jaraha ha for the awaam.

Politicians are not even testing their own kin. Sabko Jaan ki pari hai.

Soor phonkne ka waqt agaya hai

Agar ye drama aur kheecha gaya to nuqsan ziada hoga.

@Farah Sohail can you give a rough estimate how much legal time SC has?

Like the time period in that verdict? And the subsequent monitoring?

Give me a rough estimate
 
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As for Monitoring Judge - it will not play the role of Chairman NAB nor DG FIA but all in good time - he will do the “right” thing! :)

@bold this is the main problem.. We dont know....when will that time come..? Shouldnt that time hv come already? After so much that has happened? Shouldnt that time have come b4 sharif family.left for london? I hope ..qayamat ke din se pehle hi aajayega..woh time..ya atleast..accountability judge ke verdict denay se pehle tu aa hi jaye.. .....Yeh na ho...ke accountability court ki hearings complete hojayein..verdict reserve hojaye..tab J Ijaz ul Ahsan ko hosh aaye..ke mujhe tu kuch karna tha... :(

Especially..i am worried abt weak references filed by NAB.. When will that time come tht J Ijaz ul Ahsan points out faults in these references and makes NAB file ...legally solid supplementary references?
 
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However, Nawaz and his Tupperware have to return; or he will be even more discredited than Altaf Hussain. He will be replaced and finished politically within hours as his strength is not ideology but power and money. He’s no BB who can keep party intact in absentia.

I think the Sharifs mind set is that of denial exactly like was in post 2000 scenario. They would be thinking along the same lines like "It has happened to us before, we shall come around again, party if it disintegrates like before, shall come around again too, let's just wait for the right time and work behind the scenes for another deal or good times".

What can be good times for them? One possibility is that they will try to wait out till an opportune time when one of their appointees in High Court eventually moves up to SCP and then becomes CJP like a Ch.Iftikhar reincarnated who can later be just as easily side lined after dismissal of frozen cases as malafide political cases so the Tubbar shall return again as our all victorious saviour and we shall again hear "Mian Daay Naray Wajnay Ni Wajnay Nay"(Nikkay ya Wadday but still Mian's legacy).

There could be political turmoil to such an extent that a like minded chief might actually make way for them to return.

But staying away in hopes of good time is the best alternative to getting nailed by the reluctant but weary of defiance Judiciary.
 
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I had a detailed discussion with some people in Pak today. Although I don't agree with them, but want to share what's going on in the minds of powerful institutions, including SC and establishment as per them (actually these are the two left so I shouldn't use the word "including").

The assessment is that

1 - Sharifs still enjoy a massive public support in Pakistan, specially in Punjab. The support, although received a big dent due to Panama case decision, is not enough to prevent them from winning the next general elections again. It is not just public support, but as @Realistic Change has mentioned many times, our bureaucracy is extremely corrupt and will do whatever to get clear majority in next GEs. Next year is the year of Senate elections as well and if Sharifs/ PMLN are able to get majority in Senate first, and then in National Assembly, there is no way to stop them except Martial Law.

2 - Any action against them, whether by judiciary or any other institution, will be so beneficial for them that it will only add to their vote bank. Unfortunately, Sharifs know how and when to play the victim's card very well. So if they were put on ECL and eventually arrested before leaving Pakistan, it would have returned to them that little public support that they lost during Panama hearing. We have criticized judges on some remarks that seems to be favoring Sharifs might be part of the plan.

3 - Any action against them could have brought a large number of people on the streets as well. These protests could be very deadly and eventually, a Martial Law would have been required to control the situation.

4 - There is a hope, (although little, but the only hope left) is to let them runaway unscathed, and push the perception of powerful mafia that controls judiciary as well, so that their victims card effect can be reversed somehow. No one hates Sharifs more than the 5 judges who were on Panama bench, and expecting them to give relief to Sharifs is just not right. But to build the perception that Sharifs control the judiciary will negate what they have been constantly throwing towards public... that judiciary was biased against them.

5 - There is one more hope, that the party will weaken over the period of time. Sharifs control over the party will also be weakened, and will eventually lead to divisions in the party as @Realistic Change has stated. So rather than execution, it is believed that party will die its natural death in the absence of Sharif family.

6 - All efforts will be made to prevent Sharifs from coming back again. These include the appropriate orders to be passed in absentia. One thing we must remember, although there is a risk of cases becoming dormant in the absence of accused, but if judges reach to the conclusion that Sharifs are purposely avoiding court proceedings without any legit reason, courts may pass appropriate orders of issuing non bailable warrants. This means that they will be arrested upon return.

7 - Some political parties heads are also aware of all this and hence letting all of it happen.


Sharifs want some action, but some members of the family don't want the same gloomy days to occur again in first couple of years of Musharraf. Maryam is one of them. One of the best strategies of Sharifs (specially Nawaz Sharif) would be to remain in Pakistan, face the trials and go to jail. Maryam didn't let this happen as it is very difficult for her to accept the fact that her father in his 70s face the same conditions, which he faced 17-18 years back.

However, due to continuous discussions on costs and benefits, Nawaz Sharif may decide to comeback and face the trial. It will be his decision and no one knows what he will decide in future.

But yes, in my opinion, the chances of Nawaz Sharif coming back soon are extremely distant. This case has died and I don't want to live in a fools paradise to believe that NS will face a jail term, or his London properties will be eventually sold to get the looted money back to Pakistan..

It's dead guys.. lets accept it and move on..
 
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I had a detailed discussion with some people in Pak today. Although I don't agree with them, but want to share what's going on in the minds of powerful institutions, including SC and establishment as per them (actually these are the two left so I shouldn't use the word "including").

The assessment is that

1 - Sharifs still enjoy a massive public support in Pakistan, specially in Punjab. The support, although received a big dent due to Panama case decision, is not enough to prevent them from winning the next general elections again. It is not just public support, but as @Realistic Change has mentioned many times, our bureaucracy is extremely corrupt and will do whatever to get clear majority in next GEs. Next year is the year of Senate elections as well and if Sharifs/ PMLN are able to get majority in Senate first, and then in National Assembly, there is no way to stop them except Martial Law.

2 - Any action against them, whether by judiciary or any other institution, will be so beneficial for them that it will only add to their vote bank. Unfortunately, Sharifs know how and when to play the victim's card very well. So if they were put on ECL and eventually arrested before leaving Pakistan, it would have returned to them that little public support that they lost during Panama hearing. We have criticized judges on some remarks that seems to be favoring Sharifs might be part of the plan.

3 - Any action against them could have brought a large number of people on the streets as well. These protests could be very deadly and eventually, a Martial Law would have been required to control the situation.

4 - There is a hope, (although little, but the only hope left) is to let them runaway unscathed, and push the perception of powerful mafia that controls judiciary as well, so that their victims card effect can be reversed somehow. No one hates Sharifs more than the 5 judges who were on Panama bench, and expecting them to give relief to Sharifs is just not right. But to build the perception that Sharifs control the judiciary will negate what they have been constantly throwing towards public... that judiciary was biased against them.

5 - There is one more hope, that the party will weaken over the period of time. Sharifs control over the party will also be weakened, and will eventually lead to divisions in the party as @Realistic Change has stated. So rather than execution, it is believed that party will die its natural death in the absence of Sharif family.

6 - All efforts will be made to prevent Sharifs from coming back again. These include the appropriate orders to be passed in absentia. One thing we must remember, although there is a risk of cases becoming dormant in the absence of accused, but if judges reach to the conclusion that Sharifs are purposely avoiding court proceedings without any legit reason, courts may pass appropriate orders of issuing non bailable warrants. This means that they will be arrested upon return.

7 - Some political parties heads are also aware of all this and hence letting all of it happen.


Sharifs want some action, but some members of the family don't want the same gloomy days to occur again in first couple of years of Musharraf. Maryam is one of them. One of the best strategies of Sharifs (specially Nawaz Sharif) would be to remain in Pakistan, face the trials and go to jail. Maryam didn't let this happen as it is very difficult for her to accept the fact that her father in his 70s face the same conditions, which he faced 17-18 years back.

However, due to continuous discussions on costs and benefits, Nawaz Sharif may decide to comeback and face the trial. It will be his decision and no one knows what he will decide in future.

But yes, in my opinion, the chances of Nawaz Sharif coming back soon are extremely distant. This case has died and I don't want to live in a fools paradise to believe that NS will face a jail term, or his London properties will be eventually sold to get the looted money back to Pakistan..

It's dead guys.. lets accept it and move on..

Bull shit.

Jungle law ki azaan dedo isse acha.

Me qarazdar nahi marna chahta. Lotay huay paise lao ya mere 1.5 lac khazane me daal do.

Mulk ka jawaz khatam agar qarazdaar bache paida hon.

We will face isolation if justice is the cause. Warna faida kiya naray ka

Pakistan ka Matlab kia la ilaha ilalallah.

Bhai ye choran nahi chaiye. If it takes a martial law so be it.

If it takes zarorat e waqt.

If the system remains the country will eventually fall apart in 30 35 years.

Usse Accha kuch karkay mara jaye.

Myanmar pay bomb maar do.
Qatar pe maar do.

Marte waqt ummah se ek chumma aur lelo.
 
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But yes, in my opinion, the chances of Nawaz Sharif coming back soon are extremely distant. This case has died and I don't want to live in a fools paradise to believe that NS will face a jail term, or his London properties will be eventually sold to get the looted money back to Pakistan..

It's dead guys.. lets accept it and move on..


WAAH !!! WAAH!!! Why none ever thought of these things..regd PPP leaders? Why only our dear instituitions.think...of what qayamat will /can come..if anything happens to sharifs..only?
 
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WAAH !!! WAAH!!! Why none ever thought of these things..regd PPP leaders? Why only our dear instituitions.think...of what qayamat will /can come..if anything happens to sharifs..only?

Aaj ka din mere liey kafi gloomy tha..

abb samajh aarahi hai aahista aahista, ke monitoring judge kyun dheelay paray huey hain..

aur baqi judges aisay remarks kyun de rahay thay..

aur action kyun nahi liya gaya..

abb tezi kyun aarahi hai..

Ishaq Dar ke saath jo horaha hai.. same Sharif family ke saath kyun nahi hua..

Lanat bhejta hun aisay system pe...

Abb mujhay pakka yaqeen hai ke JUNAID SAFDAR hamara PM zaroor banay ga..
 
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Agree.



Fully agree.

Bhai atleast bomb to chalega. Shaan se jaenge.

Jis kaam k liye mulk hai wo to krega.

Calculate karo kaun sa mulk economic collapse of the world ya climate disaster create and just go for it.

Yaani pori duniya me labor se lekar banker tak hum. Sab banayen hum maray hum pitay hum.

Kuch to acha kaam karo takay atleast kisi kitaab me naam to rahe.

Madina nahi bana saktay to aad ya samud ban jao.

Bloody spineless DNA
 
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Bhai atleast bomb to chalega. Shaan se jaenge.

Jis kaam k liye mulk hai wo to krega.

Calculate karo kaun sa mulk economic collapse of the world ya climate disaster create and just go for it.

Yaani pori duniya me labor se lekar banker tak hum. Sab banayen hum maray hum pitay hum.

Kuch to acha kaam karo takay atleast kisi kitaab me naam to rahe.

Madina nahi bana saktay to aad ya samud ban jao.

Bloody spineless DNA

Pakistan ka comparison Madina se karna, ya kehna ke yeh Madina sani hai, yehi marwagaya hamain..

Hum apno pe hi bomb chala saktay hain fil haal..

Madar e Millat ko jo qaum RAW agent banaday, uss qoum ke liey achhay ki ummeed rakhna bhi jahalat hai..
 
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