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Panama Case: Joint Investigation Team probe

I think we discussed this 2-3 days back.. It's not about disqualification.. That one judge was convincing everyone that NS should be suspended. No one was taking him seriously.. He had to resort to a lesser punishment (or no punishment).

Justice Khosa thought that he would succeed in convincing him, but he couldn't..

This is what I heard immediately after the verdict..

To be very honest, I haven't heard about Justice Khosa's resignation. A man of his stature maintains his position and remains steadfast. He might have jokingly said to someone that he was thinking of resigning because of a serious divide in the bench, but I don't think he really meant it.

These kind of men are not born quite often. IK is one of them. He has been raising awareness among the people who are illiterate for the past 20 years.

If he really decided to resign on this trivial matter, I seriously have reservation whether he will be able to retain his stance in future.

I think..if he had thought to resign..it must have been on a personal shock..over someone's integrity....not on something else... If theres no such thing..then i agree..he wouldnt have thought to resign on only split

I am watching Rauf Klasra's program.. He has also expressed shock over CJ Saqib Nisar's statement tht how could he lessen the imp of dissenting verdicts? He said..in this case...only these two dissenting judgments will remembered for yrs to come..and he gave reference of some other earlier cases where dissentng judgments are remembered.... He was full of praise for Justice Khosa..tht he took huge risk by challenging sitting PM....

Waisy Justice Khosa ne ek aur bhtt acha kaam kar diya hai.. Jo unhon ne Nawaz Sharif ko GODFATHER keh diya hai..ye sab se bara kaam kiya hai.. Ab Nawaz Sharif ko hamesha ke liye Godfather kaha jayega... This is the best...
 
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I think..if he had thought to resign..it must have been on a personal shock..over someone's integrity....not on something else... If theres no such thing..then i agree..he wouldnt have thought to resign on only split

I am watching Rauf Klasra's program.. He has also expressed shock over CJ Saqib Nisar's statement tht how could he lessen the imp of dissenting verdicts? He said..in this case...only these two dissenting judgments will remembered for yrs to come..and he gave reference of some other earlier cases where dissentng judgments are remembered.... He was full of praise for Justice Khosa..tht he took huge risk by challenging sitting PM....

Waisy Justice Khosa ne ek aur bhtt acha kaam kar diya hai.. Jo unhon ne Mawaz Sharif ko GODFATHER keh diya hai..ye sab se bara kaam kiya hai.. Ab Nawaz Sharif ko hamesha ke liye Godfather kaha jayega... This is the best...

As much as I love reading his note, I am not in agreement with his decision to use harsh words in the judgement. I even slightly disagree on PMs disqualification.

One of his remarks was that he understood it wasn't a trial court and the bench could go for declaration at most. All of us agreed and were only looking for declaration and possibly, initiation of investigation with suspension.

Now we have two ends in this judgment. One extreme right and the other one extreme left. One side disqualified PM, the other side didn't even declare.

Justice Khosa (I respect him a lot because he provided Insaaf not just Qanooni Faisla) should have convinced others to declare PM dishonest (even if his suspension wasn't on cards). I am sure he would have found at least one judge on his side. It would have been an easy ride for IK to go to EC to get him de-notified.

This is my honest opinion. As much as I like Justice Khosa, I respectfully disagree with his verdict, although I am not even slightly qualified to interpret laws. You and others may disagree with me on my position, but at least one judge also had the same standpoint.
 
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As much as I love reading his note, I am not in agreement with his decision to use harsh words in the judgement. I even slightly disagree on PMs disqualification.

One of his remarks was that he understood it wasn't a trial court and the bench could go for declaration at most. All of us agreed and were only looking for declaration and possibly, initiation of investigation with suspension.

Now we have two ends in this judgment. One extreme right and the other one extreme left. One side disqualified PM, the other side didn't even declare.

Justice Khosa (I respect him a lot because he provided Insaaf not just Qanooni Faisla) should have convinced others to declare PM dishonest (even if his suspension wasn't on cards). I am sure he would have found at least one judge on his side. It would have been an easy ride for IK to go to EC to get him de-notified.

This is my honest opinion. As much as I like Justice Khosa, I respectfully disagree with his verdict, although I am not even slightly qualified to interpret laws. You and others may disagree with me on my position, but at least one judge also had the same standpoint.

He and Justice Gulzar argued in the verdict tht justidiction of article 184/3 is evolving and there have been cases in the past..where direct disqualification has been done... Justice Khosa even quoted justice Qazi Faiz Isa judment also reg 62/63 in his verdict.... So this is not the first time, it has happened... Even Sheikh Rashid, on last day of hearing, gave examples of cases where ppl have been disqualified in 184/3 cases....

Also, its not tht Justice Khosa is alone in his judgment... Justice Gulzar also agreed with him...

And as u yourself said, tht news/rumor is tht....Justice Khosa changed the tone of his judgment later, after feeling helpless...because he probably knew tht PM may get a clean chit through this JIT..

Also...it was very convenient for him, to be more diplomatic... By being harsh..he has only exposed himself and his family to danger/risk by openly challenging a sitting PM..or in his own words..a GODFATHER... But its evident from his verdict tht he was extremely frustrated while writing this verdict..and I think..it was intentional /deliberate tht he used sarcastc comments for sharif family..because once he knew, PM is probably getting clean chit..or atleast there are such chances........then he made sure tht this dissenting judgment is more talked abt..so tht sharif family is properly exposed...

Regd tht one judge... I dont think...or atleast we are not sure...tht he would have agreed to give declaration on disqualification.. He was probably only looking for suspension.....

Plus...i think if both future chief justice agree on an interpretation of law...we should trust them.... In other 3, one is pakora, and other advocate.... How can we trust on their interpretation? Regd tht one judge...he was probably looking for suspension..which none agreed?

Also Justce Khosa emphasized in his verdict many times..tht its not an ordinary case..and its under extraordinary circumstances tht we are hearing this case, where all instituitions have failed to do their job ..then acc to article 187/3 which talks abt complete justice...we are doing what is appropriate for complete justice ...in extraordinary circumstances
 
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He and Justice Gulzar argued in the verdict tht justidiction of article 184/3 is evolving and there have been cases in the past..where direct disqualification has been done... Justice Khosa even quoted justice Qazi Faiz Isa judment also reg 62/63 in his verdict.... So this is not the first time, it has happened... Even Sheikh Rashid, on last day of hearing, gave examples of cases where ppl have been disqualified in 184/3 cases....

Also, its not tht Justice Khosa is alone in his judgment... Justice Gulzar also agreed with him...

And you yourself said, tht news/rumor is tht....Justice Khosa changed the tone of his judgment later, after feeling helpless...because he probably knew tht PM may get a clean chit through this JIT..

Also...it was very convenient for him, to be more diplomatic... By being harsh..he has only exposed himself and his family to danger/risk by openly challenging a sitting PM..or in his own words..a GODFATHER... But its evident from his verdict tht he was extremely frustrated while writing this verdict..and I think..it was intentional tht he used sarcastc comments for sharif family..because once he knew, he is getting clean chit..he made sure tht this dissenting judgments is more talked abt..so tht sharif family is properly exposed...

Regd tht one judge... I dont think...or atleast we are not sure...tht he would have agreed to give declaration on disqualification.. He was probably only looking for suspension.....

Plus...i think if both future chief justice agree on an interpretation of law...we should trust them.... In other 3, one is pakora, and other advocate.... How can we trust on their interpretation? Regd tht one judge...he was probably looking on suspension..which none agreed?


Your points are also valid.. I was only referring to the remarks of Justice Khosa, he agreed that he could go for declaration at most.

Regarding Justice Aijaz ul Ahsan, he was in favor of the suspension, but not disqualification because of jurisdiction issues. One of the ways to compel him was declaration, because declaration wouldn't have created any jurisdiction issues and his standpoint/ concern that SC is not the appropriate forum, would have been addressed as after declaration a petition would have been moved to EC by PTI.

Justice Khosa really changed the tone, that is right.. And I love to read his note, specially first page and some last pages whenever I feel depressed, but he should have calmed down a little bit and convinced at least one judge on declaration. Maybe he tried and after that he felt helpless before writing such a verdict.. God knows better..

He is really brave, no doubt about it. He just put aside all the fears, and wrote something, using all he could find in the references on disqualification under 184(3).

Anyway, Nabeel Gabol was telling in one of the talk shows today that some foreign powers have been involved in saving Baji in Dawn Leaks case. I think he was referring to KSA. If KSA is involved, RS might have a role in it. I don't want to believe it, but such a pressure from officers could only be managed by KSA together with the previous Army Chief who is still loved by officers and non-commissioned equally.

Whenever we are involved with this country, it always interferes in our internal matters. KSA is our friend, but it doesn't mean that they are free to provide safe passage every time a corrupt or a traitor is caught. Had anyone been caught in KSA with the similar charges on him/ her, the person would have been executed by now..
 
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Anyway, Nabeel Gabol was telling in one of the talk shows today that some foreign powers have been involved in saving Baji in Dawn Leaks case. I think he was referring to KSA. If KSA is involved, RS might have a role in it. I don't want to believe it, but such a pressure from officers could only be managed by KSA together with the previous Army Chief who is still loved by officers and non-commissioned equally.

Whenever we are involved with this country, it always interferes in our internal matters. KSA is our friend, but it doesn't mean that they are free to provide safe passage every time a corrupt or a traitor is caught. Had anyone been caught in KSA with the similar charges on him/ her, the person would have been executed by now..

Well.. I dont trust Nabil Gabol much... He claims to give inside news and tries to portray himself as an analyst...but almost all his news have often proved to be incorrect....

Why would Gen RS want to save baji now..after his retirement? Esp after all the defamation campaign against him by PML N.... Regd KSA..well its KSA which approached Gen Raheel Sharif and wanted him, for the role..rather than other way round.. And Nawaz Sharif had already gven committment to KSA, tht they will gve Gen Raheel Sharif to KSA....so theres no personal benefit to him, to get NRO for baji in dawn leaks after retirement, atleast

Yes..when he was COAS... I still believe tht he waa extremely lenient..and probably did NRO with NS, on dawn leaks..for whatever reasons...but i see no reason, why Gen Raheel Sharif would make an extra ffortafter his retirement..to try and get NRO for baji on dawn leaks...just because KSA said so.. He is even going to KSA on his own terms and conditions.. So I doubt..he would have made an effort, post retirement to get clean chit for baji, just because KSA wanted it

Regd Gen Qamar Bajwa..well.. I have my views on him... Sincethe day he came, NRO on dawn leaks seemed to be very obvious.. He was chosen by Nawaz Sharif for a reason.......Infact NRO on dawn leaks was probably done..when Gen Raheel was in office.. I dont think...it has anything to do with his post retirement efforts due to KSA
 
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Why would Gen RS want to save baji now..after his retirement? Esp after all the defamation campaign against him by PML N.... Regd KSA..well its KSA which approached Gen Raheel Sharif and wanted him, for the role..rather than away round.. And Nawaz Sharif had already gven committment to KSA, tht they will gve Gen Raheel Sharif to KSA....so theres no personal benefit to him, to get NRO for baji in dawn leaks after retirement, atleast

Yeh RS wala part mera apna assessment hai.. Nabeel Gabol ka analysis nahi hai..

Well, I don't know about Nabeel Gabol's news much.. I saw a clip on another forum and thought to tell you.. Now since you are saying his news are often proved to be incorrect, lets not discuss it.

Mere paas tou last ittelaa yehi hai ke NRO honay nahi ja raha.. khair dekhtay hain kia hota hai..

Pata nahi report kyun nahi aarahi hai bahir..

@Farah Sohail

My friend was telling me today that if is selected in the JIT he will work 26 hours everyday to get the financial trail...

I told him, lets make a deal, we both know he will get a clean chit.. agar hosakay tou kuchh paison pe settle karlo aur 10% mujhay dedo.. lollll
 
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Your points are also valid.. I was only referring to the remarks of Justice Khosa, he agreed that he could go for declaration at most.

Regarding Justice Aijaz ul Ahsan, he was in favor of the suspension, but not disqualification because of jurisdiction issues. One of the ways to compel him was declaration, because declaration wouldn't have created any jurisdiction issues and his standpoint/ concern that SC is not the appropriate forum, would have been addressed as after declaration a petition would have been moved to EC by PTI.

Justice Khosa really changed the tone, that is right.. And I love to read his note, specially first page and some last pages whenever I feel depressed, but he should have calmed down a little bit and convinced at least one judge on declaration. Maybe he tried and after that he felt helpless before writing such a verdict.. God knows better..

He is really brave, no doubt about it. He just put aside all the fears, and wrote something, using all he could find in the references on disqualification under 184(3).

U know..what?? I have a feeling.. I dont know..if its just me..or this has really happened..... I think..Justce Khosa's thinking process have evolved/changed a bit with time... I read his book..which was written in 2008...when he was LHC judge... While reading his panama verdict..even I had a feeling tht maybe...just maybe.. I am not sure though...tht Justice Khosa of 2008 wouldnt have given exactly the same judgment... I even shared few pages, of his book here..where he was not much in favor of expanding jurisdiction...matlab he talked abt..strict narrow parameters of law..

But this diffefence in approach could be due to two reasons.. One, tht he himself mentioned in panama verdict..tht SC is court of justice...while other courts are court of law.. There are special powers to SC according to article 187/3 which talks abt doing complete justice..and so whatever is required for it..should be done.... he himself mentioned this in thia panama verdict

And he repeatedly emphasized...tht we are hearing the case in extraordinary cicrumstances..so have to take extraordinary decisions..according to spirit of law and justice..as said in article 187/3..hence the difference in his approach now
 
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tht SC is court of justice...while other courts are court of law..

Waqai??? I didn't know about it.. Agar yeh kaha tha tou yeh aik reason hai unn ke disqualify karnay ki..

But jo language use ki hai, mujhay daant peesta banda computer pe type karta nazar aata hai..

Aik waqt tou aisa lag raha tha jab main parh raha tha judgment ke shayad next page se gaalian nikalna shuru hojaeingay..
 
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I told him, lets make a deal, we both know he will get a clean chit.. agar hosakay tou kuchh paison pe settle karlo aur 10% mujhay dedo.. lollll

Loll..

Waisy financial trail tu already Rehman Malik ki report main hai...

Is he the one, who u said..has never taken a bribe and is going to be probably selected?

Also....Zafar Ali Shah of PML N..also thinks tht....after JIT completes its work..it will come before the same panama bench.. He said.....tht think of the main court order..of 3 judges as an interim order..and after 60 days..it will come again before the same bench.. He said this in Arshad Sharif's show... Ab pata nahi...kia sahi hai?

Waisy Zafar Ali Shah ko ab tak PML N ne bardasht kaisy kiya hua hai? He often talks against them

But Advocate tu retire honay walay hain..1/2 months main.. Unki retirement nahi aajayegi beech main? 60 days tu JIT ne hi kaam karna hai

Waqai??? I didn't know about it.. Agar yeh kaha tha tou yeh aik reason hai unn ke disqualify karnay ki..

But jo language use ki hai, mujhay daant peesta banda computer pe type karta nazar aata hai..

Aik waqt tou aisa lag raha tha jab main parh raha tha judgment ke shayad next page se gaalian nikalna shuru hojaeingay..

Ys.. Aisa kuch zuroor tha unki judgment main.. Main ne parha hai.. He even mentioned 187/3 in this reference..which talks abt doing complete justice...

@bold... Waisy waqayi.. He was in really bad mood..while writing the verdict:lol: Even I was shocked..tht someone could hate sharif family as much as I do :lol:... He said ke inki corruption ki news tu 90s se chalti aarahi hain :lol::lol:

Abt Qatari..he said..ke jab Martial law laga tha..tab bhi qatari aaye thay..ab bhi qatari prince aagaya..... He said...A friend in need is a friend indeed:rofl::rofl:

He was really pissed off..and yes as u said..most probably it was due to the feeling of helplessness tht NS isnt going to be disqualified.. So once he knew tht...he DELIBERATELY made sure through his remarks...tht dissenting verdict is more talked abt...so tht Sharif family gets completely exposed.. Otherwise..his verdict would have been more diplomatic if Nawaz Sharif was going to be disqualifiee........And he succeeded in his strategy.. In every prog..its the dissenting judgment tht is being talked abt more.. Ke CJ ko bhi bura lag gaya .. But doing what he did..required serious guts.. Hats off to both Justice Khosa and Justice Gulzar..
 
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Is he the one, who u said..has never taken a bribe and is going to be probably selected?

Nahi woh aik aur idaray ka banda hai jis ki main baat kar raha tha.. Actually two jo shortlist huay hain uss idaray se, dono ki zabardast hain.. third ka nahi pata..

yeh jo mera dost hai, yeh nahi hoga shortlist, lekin jo bhi hoga hamain pata chal jaega ke kaisay hain ye log... My friend is known to be extremely anti-NS .. That's why I am not in favor to show your affiliation or hate in government offices openly..

Khair main ne uss se kaha paisay kamanay ke chances baar baar nahi miltay.. Show your affiliation by hanging big pictures of Baji and Baja in your room tomorrow.. and call the chairman to have a cup of tea so that he could see those pictures.. Hosakay tou noton walay haar bhi latkado pictures ke saath..

Waisy Zafar Ali Shah ko ab tak PML N ne bardasht kaisy kiya hua hai? He often talks against them

Yeh chakkar mujhay bhi samajh nahi aaya..

But Advocate tu retire honay walay hain..1/2 months main.. Unki retirement nahi aajayegi beech main? 60 days tu JIT ne hi kaam karna hai

Mujhay lagta hai new bench banegi..
 
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Show your affiliation by hanging big pictures of Baji and Baja in your room tomorrow.. and call the chairman to have a cup of tea so that he could see those pictures.. Hosakay tou noton walay haar bhi latkado pictures ke saath..

:lol::lol::lol:

Mujhay lagta hai new bench banegi.

Ek new bench tu banay gi hi.. JIT monitoring bench... Zafar Ali Shah aur Justice Wajihuddin keh rahay hain ke..JIT report baad main inke pass aayegi...aur phir ye bench faisla karay ga.. Zafar Ali Shah says tht consider verdict of 20th April as interim order... Justice Wajihuddin also said something similar

Lekin Advocate ki returement ka kia hoga? I have read ke 1 - 2 months main retire honay walay hain. T lagta hai ke unki retirement beech main aajayegi.. Phir tu new bench hi hona chahye .. Pata nahi..ye chakkar samajh nahi aaraha

@PakSword
 
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Usi ka tou bata raha hun... ke mujhay lagta hai new bench banegi..

monitoring bench ka nahi bol raha..

Hmmm..

Chalein...advocate ki jagah......us final bench main..baqi 4 judges wohi rakh lein..panam bench ke...ek Justice Qazi Faiz Isa ko...aur add kar lein.. Humein koi aitraz nahi hoga :P

But if new bench will be formed...then i am almost sure tht Justice Khosa and Gulzar wont be there :( :(
 
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یاجوج، ماجوج اور وہ

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But if new bench will be formed...then i am almost sure tht Justice Khosa and Gulzar wont be there :( :(

I think chaaron main se koi nahi hoga..
 
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I think chaaron main se koi nahi hoga..

Baqi 2 ke...pakora aur Justice IjazulAhsan ke honay ke bhtt chances hain... Advocate ki retirement beech main aagyi..warna woh bhi hosaktay thay.. Agar bilkol new bench bana tu unhon ne tu case suna hi nahi hai.. Aur is panama bench ke 3 judges ne kaha hai ke humein investigation ke result ka intezar hai...

Tu jesy Justce Wajihuddin aur Zafar Ali shah keh rahay hain..ke it will come before this bench only...to decide..as verdict of 20th april is interim order.. Lekin mujhe advocate ki retirement ki wajah se doubt horaha hai.... Aar new bench bhi banaa t ..am sure pakora aur Justice Ijazul Ahsan t zuroor honge.. Justice Khosa aur Bulzar phir na hon shayad..most probably

Anwar Zaheer Jamali ki retirement ke baad bhi jo panama ka new bench bana tha...us main 3 judges tu wohi puranay thay... Mujhe lagta hai ke final bench new bhi hua tu atleast 2 judges tu wohi honge.. Baqi aur add kar lein ge
 
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