Palestinian baby dies in arson attack

[Gufi]

As the years passed, the apartment prices in Tel Aviv and central Israel in general, became higher and higher. The settlements offered an alternative, a low-price house with a community feeling, just 20-30 min drive from Tel Aviv. You'd be surprised to know that most of the citizens labeled as settlers, meaning people who live beyond the 67' border, are not there because of some agenda, but rather social economic reasons. In a way I think the government wanted this situation to happen.

beyond the 67 border is illegal, and is done by force. if housing price increases you do not go and occupy other people's lands. that is illegal i hope that concept is clear.

For a long time, the settlements became the Israeli "wild west", where the mainstream education is decaying. That's when the radicals come in. The religious leaders that control the settlers are not ultra-Orthodox, but rather their political rivals. The more influence they have, the more power they seize over the religious institute in Israel, but that's another story. This sect is the one that is swaying away from Israeli mainstream, at least media-wise.

yes i know the story of the ultra right and the importance in the political circles. but the followers are radicals, just like the leaders of many terrorist organisations enjoying alcohol while their foot soldiers blow alcohol shops up, that does not make the radicals right or unaccountable. Every concerned government authority advised that the settlers who commit these crimes be labelled terrorists years ago, and I guess since you are well versed in history I do not need to tell you this is not even a problem of ten years but much longer.
But yes every government agency advised labelling them as terrorist but apparently it was a religious or racial thing where after your attorney general and your internal intelligence advised that they be labelled as terrorists and tried as such they get off with slaps on the wrist even if they are caught or cases filed.

I hope to bring to knowledge that there are people in Israel who are sick of this. I am personally tired of talking about who killed who, who came first, and who started. That kind of stuff doesn't solve problems. I have tons of facts that can dissolve the existence of the Palestinian people, but how does that help anyone? We need to focus on the ones that made these problems be, and that's the Israeli government, Hamas, Fatah and other scumbag governments.

to leave peacefully is to go back to the beginning where there were no issues, but no Israeli government would do that. thus this argument and discussion is theoretical at best.

anyway will continue this later, reply if you have a meaningful answer, debating for the sake of running around in circle as is being done here by others is cumbersome.

 

[Rayz]

What?

There should be no Israeli settlers on Palestinian territory (West Bank). End of story. They have absolutely no business there. They have Israel for that. There is plenty of room in the Negev Desert.

Not actually "dissolve" them. Just show that they're more of an artificial people rather than something with solid history. But it doesn't matter, since the Jews are even a greater myth. It doesn't take a degree in genetics to understand that a jew from Poland and a jew from Iraq are not actually connected by blood. So far I've found that the researches claiming of genetic relations between distant Jews, are actually funded by religious groups.

Well, yeah, they shouldn't be. But they're already there. Even if theoretically Israel agreed to transfer 500,000 people into new housing in a short period of time, the results will be bad for the entire regions. Don't you find it hilarious that the Europeans are surprised by the mass waves of immigrants not long after they bombed the crap out of Libya? That's because they didn't think their actions through.

Anyway, be rational. You gotta see the whole picture. Blank demands don't solve problems.

 

[Rayz]

beyond the 67 border is illegal, and is done by force. if housing price increases you do not go and occupy other people's lands. that is illegal i hope that concept is clear.

The housing is actually not done by force, most of the time. It's not really hard to find empty land in the west bank.
You're on the wrong concept here. What I tried to explain in the previous post, is that when the settling began it wasn't grasped as something illegal or colonial. There was yet to be a Palestinian identity, nobody opposed it. It became an actual problem when they started noticing that the settling hurts their territorial contiguity of west bank, therefore making it harder to set new borders. Bangladesh, for example, was a victim of a similar problem, still suffering from it until today.

yes i know the story of the ultra right and the importance in the political circles. but the followers are radicals, just like the leaders of many terrorist organisations enjoying alcohol while their foot soldiers blow alcohol shops up, that does not make the radicals right or unaccountable. Every concerned government authority advised that the settlers who commit these crimes be labelled terrorists years ago, and I guess since you are well versed in history I do not need to tell you this is not even a problem of ten years but much longer.
But yes every government agency advised labelling them as terrorist but apparently it was a religious or racial thing where after your attorney general and your internal intelligence advised that they be labelled as terrorists and tried as such they get off with slaps on the wrist even if they are caught or cases filed.

I am an atheist, if there is something I despise is those radical groups in the west bank. The problem starts when these guys have their own political party (HaBait haYehudi) which portrays itself as peace-loving and receives support even from blinded, secular Israelis. In the Israeli political system, one small party can bring the whole house down - creating a machine of bribery and corruption. Netanyahu's mainstream party cannot survive without giving budgets and freedom to these scumbags.

to leave peacefully is to go back to the beginning where there were no issues, but no Israeli government would do that. thus this argument and discussion is theoretical at best.

anyway will continue this later, reply if you have a meaningful answer, debating for the sake of running around in circle as is being done here by others is cumbersome.

Of course this is theoretical. Neither you or I hold a job that can make us change anything.
I really am fed up with the way things are, but the internet is a curse and a blessing. It allows us to actually talk about this, and when the hour will come we'd take part in bringing bigotry to an end.

 

[Saif al-Arab]

Not actually "dissolve" them. Just show that they're more of an artificial people rather than something with solid history. But it doesn't matter, since the Jews are even a greater myth. It doesn't take a degree in genetics to understand that a jew from Poland and a jew from Iraq are not actually connected by blood. So far I've found that the researches claiming of genetic relations between distant Jews, are actually funded by religious groups.

Well, yeah, they shouldn't be. But they're already there. Even if theoretically Israel agreed to transfer 500,000 people into new housing in a short period of time, the results will be bad for the entire regions. Don't you find it hilarious that the Europeans are surprised by the mass waves of immigrants not long after they bombed the crap out of Libya?

Anyway, be rational. You gotta see the whole picture. Blank demands don't solve problems.

Palestinians are the native inhabitants of what is today Israel and Palestine. They are indigenous Semites mixed with Arabs next door who themselves were/are Semites.

Arab Jews (basically Mizrahi Jews) are with all due probability very similar looking to how the ancient Hebrews/Israelites looked liked. In fact most are probably direct descendants of those ancient Jewish tribes that once roamed large areas of the Arab world from Yemen to Egypt. Later movements occurred towards North/West Africa and finally Europe.

I know that it won't happen but that would be a step towards a solution and a sane one actually.

What's the point of living in isolated settlements anyway? At least the Israeli Arabs who make up 21% of the Israeli population are living among all Israelis and not in isolated settlements, excluding those few (now) found in the Negev.

Why is it that the indigenous Samaritans of Israel (only 800 of them are left sadly) are almost identical to Palestinians and nearby Arabs?







Dude "real" Arabs and Jews were brotherly people. Cousins, neighbors and people who spoke a similar language. Still do to this day (Arabic and Hebrew). Still neighbors to this day as well.

The only difference is that a large influx of Sephardic (actually many of those are genetically genuine Jews) and Ashkenazi Jews have changed today's Palestine + Israel demographically.

I don't know if your origin is Arab Jew (Mizrahi), African, European or a mixture but what I wrote should not really be a secret. Genetics confirm it at least. History too.

Personally I look at Jewish Arabs as Arabs who happen to practice one of the 3 Abrahamic (Semitic) religions. I don't look at them at foreigners to be honest with you as there is no main difference between them other than religion and the culture that surrounds that religion. Otherwise you won't distinguish them from an Yemeni Arab or Iraqi Arab for instance.

That's why I still try to convince myself that there will be peace between Israel and the Arab world one day among other things.

Peace and I hope they catch the murderers responsible for this crime.

 

[Rayz]

Palestinians are the native inhabitants of what is today Israel and Palestine. They are indigenous Semites mixed with Arabs next door who themselves were/are Semites.

Arab Jews (basically Mizrahi Jews) are with all due probability very similar looking to how the ancient Hebrews/Israelites looked liked. In fact most are probably direct descendants of those ancient Jewish tribes that once roamed large areas of the Arab world from Yemen to Egypt. Later movements occurred towards North/West Africa and finally Europe.

I know that it won't happen but that would be a step towards a solution and a sane one actually.

What's the point of living in isolated settlements anyway? At least the Israeli Arabs who make up 21% of the Israel's population are living among all Israelis and not in isolated settlements, excluding those found in the Negev.

Why is it that the indigenous Samaritans of Israel (only 800 of them are left sadly) are almost identical to Palestinians and nearby Arabs?


Dude real Arabs and Jews were brotherly people. Cousins, neighbors and spoke a similar language. Still do to this day (Arabic and Hebrew). Still neighbors to this day.

The only difference is that a large influx of Sephardic (actually many of those are genetically genuine Jews) and Ashkenazi Jews have changed today's Palestine + Israel demographically.

I don't know if your origin is Arab Jew (Mizrahi), African, European or a mixture but what I wrote should not really be a secret. Genetics confirm it at least. History too.

Peace and I hope they catch the murderers responsible for this crime.

Neither Palestinian or Jewish people are native to this area.
The British occupation between 1918-1948 opened a new horizon for the region, after decades of economic death. Together with the arrival of Jews, the region was in need of labor force. It is known that at least 400-500 thousand of Arabs, mostly from Egypt and Saudia, immigrated to Israel between 1920 and 1940. Who do you think actually built the new jewish cities? Jews? Haha. It's hard for everyone to admit Palestinians to this day carry family names that identify them with their original countries.

Well but for the record, yes, the Palestinian population is, averagely, more native than the Jews are. Now that you got that, how does it help? You cannot reverse the wheel. Nobody is leaving nowhere.

 

[Saif al-Arab]

Neither Palestinian or Jewish people are native to this area.
The British occupation between 1918-1948 opened a new horizon for the region, after decades of economic death. Together with the arrival of Jews, the region was in need of labor force. It is known that at least 400-500 thousand of Arabs, mostly from Egypt and Saudia, immigrated to Israel between 1920 and 1940. Who do you think actually built the new jewish cities? Jews? Haha. It's hard for everyone to admit Palestinians to this day carry family names that identify them with their original countries.

Well but for the record, yes, the Palestinian population is, averagely, more native than the Jews are. Now that you got that, how does it help? You cannot reverse the wheel. Nobody is leaving nowhere.

Of course Palestinians are native to the region (Southern Levant). This has already been confirmed by genetics. Arabs themselves are native to the immediate area.

Show me a single credible source that shows that 500.000 people from KSA (in this case Hijaz as it borders Southern Levant directly and almost Israel) moved to what is today Israel + Palestine just between 1920 and 1940? Even if they did those are actually native people of the region and Semites. Not only that Hijazis have without a question a degree of descent from ancient Hebrews/Israelites as Jewish presence in that region of the Arab world is confirmed anonymously.

You ignored pretty much my entire post.

You cannot equate natives of the region (Palestinians) and their ties to their lands with that of Jewish migrants from Poland, Ukraine, Latvia, Russia, Hungary etc. It makes absolutely no sense.

No, we probably can't but what one can't change is history.

But I know that it might feel better for an Ashkenazi Jew (to excuse the whole situation at hand) just to say that "you know what, none of us have any connection to the land we inhabit now". Unfortunately for such people this is not the case for most Palestinians.

You should take a look at the genetics of Palestinians and people of the region instead.

 

[Ahmed Jo]

more reason why I hate Israel.......

May I humbly advice that you shouldn't hate Israel as a whole. You may or may not know that pretty much everyone in Israel has condemned this crime. Now it's true that if they really want such occurrences to end they should simply end the occupation of palestinian territories through a peace process, but still that only leaves the government and its leadership to hate and not the whole country.

 

[Tipu7]

May I humbly advice that you shouldn't hate Israel as a whole. You may or may not know that pretty much everyone in Israel has condemned this crime. Now it's true that if they really want such occurrences to end they should simply end the occupation of palestinian territories through a peace process, but still that only leaves the government and its leadership to hate and not the whole country.

I know them very well...... though banned from their forums but still I am in touch with their mass hypocrisy at government as well as national level........

 

[bsruzm]

''Extremist Jewish group burns down Palestinian home to 'bring the coming of Messiah closer'

The arson attack in the West Bank Palestinian home, where an 18-month-old baby was burned to death, was committed by the extremist Jewish settler group, moved by religious motivations to accelerate the coming of Messiah, Israeli Yaridoth Ahronoth (YnetNews) reported.

The attack was committed by 'hilltop youth', a youth branch of the extremist group 'Price Tag', which wrote 'revenge' on the wall of the home burned down. The 'hilltop youth' has recently been formed across West Bank and commits attacks for the 'Price Tag', the report has said.

The extremist group seeks to increase the crisis in the Middle East and trigger new attacks which will 'bring redemption and the coming of the Messiah closer.' The group aims to form a Jewish state on the occupied Palestinian territories based on Jewish moral values that are derived from Jewish religious sources.

In last week's attack on a Palestinian home, a baby was burned to death and three other members of the family were injured.''

______

''Through fire nature is reborn whole'' Latin phrase

 

[Falcon29]

''' The group aims to form a Jewish state on the occupied Palestinian territories based on Jewish moral values that are derived from Jewish religious sources.

Same objectives of Israeli government. They don't refer to Palestinian territories as Palestinian territories but rather 'Judea and Samaria' which they see as sovereign Israeli territory.

 

[Solomon2]

What? There should be no Israeli settlers on Palestinian territory (West Bank). End of story. They have absolutely no business there. They have Israel for that. There is plenty of room in the Negev Desert.

On the contrary: under the terms of the League of Nations' Mandate for Palestine, Jews are encouraged to "closely settle" the area. While Jordan did seize what it calls the "West Bank" in 1947-48, that seizure was recognized as illegal both in law and by the international community. So their is a very, very, good argument that Mandate Law still applies and Jews are entitled to settle within its bounds - on "state land" if they wish or through private purchase.

Does doing so justify attacks on babies? Not at all. Clearly Israeli society is strongly rejecting such attacks on Arabs yet many Arabs publicly celebrate when Jews are the victims - and their leaders honor the perpetrators.

 

[Solomon2]

I added "purported" because at least one of the attacks on the wiki list - Tuba Zangaria - is most unlikely to have been "price tag" activity. I will investigate others further later, if I can.

@Gufi: I edited the wikilist last night but my changes were reversed by what Wikipedia says is a "bot [that] does not yet have the approval of the community, or approval has been withdrawn, and therefore shouldn't be making edits that appear to be unassisted except in the operator's or its own user and user talk space". What that means for the accuracy of the rest of the list I don't know.

 

[Dubious]

INNA LILLAHI WA INNA ILAYHI RAJEEOON

 

[opruh]

RIP to the poor baby, Israel and their ally Saudi must be celebrating right now.

 

[Solomon2]

Did the Israeli Police make false accusations in the Duma case ?
Posted on August 6, 2015 by MIRIAM WOELKE

Shortly after the fire in the Palestinian village Duma killing an 18 – months – old Palestinian boy, the Israeli police announced that the perpetrators must have been Israeli settlers from the nearby settlement Esh Kodesh. The whole world started it’s regular outcry and our President Ruven Rivlin joined the accusations. As soon as Israelis are being attacked and killed, everyone prefers be silent.

The truth is that, until today, the police are investigating without having any proof. A few days ago I wrote that investigations should be taken more seriously, as there are a couple of possibilities and not only one. It could have been that settlers set the houses on fire but, this seems rather difficult. Reality shows that, as soon as a Jew put one foot into a Palestinian village, he will find himself surrounded by an Arab lynch mob. So, how then can it be that one or two settlers walk right into a Palestinian village and start setting houses on fire ?
Why did the police refuse to investigate in various directions ? Another possibility could be that another Arab clan set the house on fire and wanted revenge. Everybody should definitely read the latest news on the Duma case:

Backlash as Police Admit They Need Clues on Arson - Defense/Security - News - Arutz Sheva

Here it says:

Arab media reported that the IDF confiscated security cameras from Duma on Monday night. If accurate, the report would raise questions as to why the Arab village is apparently not cooperating with the investigation into the lethal arson.
Adding to the question marks surrounding the case are reports of an ongoing 18-year feud between two clans in Duma. Questions have likewise been raised regarding the claims of locals regarding the arson.

The affected house was located in the center of the sprawling village, and before burning it the assailants burned down an empty home next door. The arsonists had to place the firebombs through the house’s lattice, and according to locals they entered the home and stood over the parents to prevent them from leaving until the entire house was on fire. They also drew graffiti at two places, one with an intricate crown on it, and then made it out of the village on foot.​

If the accusations turn out to be false, the world won’t notice it. The judgment was made and the settlers are guilty. No matter what. It is really disgusting how the media and Israel’s left is screaming about every Palestinian but, at the same time, ignoring Jewish victims. We didn’t here another outcry when a young Israeli was attacked a few days ago.