Pakistan’s Terror Game

[Spectre]

I asked you why being employed by the institutions you mentioned is an automatic validation of her positions on Pakistan, and I questioned whether her institution was even aware of her expletive laden vitriol and irrational statements against Pakistan when they hired her. Both those questions are relevant to your claim that the identity of her employers somehow automatically bestows upon her more credibility when it comes to commenting on India-Pakistan affairs.

1. Those expletives were employed not in official capacity hence in no way affect the weight of her arguments or her credentials

2. Irrational Statements against Pakistan - Irrational for Pakistani audience perhaps but not for the rest of Global community

3. Yes certainly more credibility than you and I enjoy.

Any commentator that chooses to view complex geo-political dynamics as 'black and white' and paints one of the players as 'Satan incarnate on earth' and calls for complete capitulation by one player to the other is inherently taking a one sided, biased and irrational position.

The most contentious claim made by Fair, that Pakistan's claim on Kashmir is baseless, is also the most obviously irrational, flawed and non-objective claim she makes. She can't even take an objective position on an obvious issue like the Kashmir Dispute!

1. Legally speaking the claim on Kashmir of Pakistan is baseless.

2. Somethings are in grey but some things are as clear as daylight and Pakistan's patronage of terrorists are clear to anyone who is willing to face the facts. Why should she neuter her stand when the facts support ISI's patronage and active involvement in terrorism in India

 

[Maarkhoor]

Pakistan's patronage of terrorists are clear to anyone who is willing to face the facts.

Did India ever succeeded to prove that ? tell me

 

[nair]

Then why buy billions of dollars worth of jets and subs... Lets buy printers and stationary, as that is the best route for us. Atleast bring the Tax slab down to 15% throughout.

Well........ are you suggesting that we are buy this jets and subs to avert attacks like 26/11????..Yes Jets and subs makes sense when war is the only option left.....Ok let us discuss what were the option left with GOI????

1) Striking the terror factories???? We all know how successful were the so called "Drones" got inside pakistan, That too with having the best possible intel and equipment's......What guarantee do we have that we will be striking the factories as we assumed them to be .... Do we have such precise intel???? I doubt.... Even if we have them how you plan to do it??? And how successful do you assume it to be??? - I do no think we are equipped to conduct a OBL kind of raid inside Pak.... Yes may be we can fire some of our missile to this so called factories, but how you will you prove to the world that it was terrorist who was killed in the strike????

But then there are other options, which GoI chose to pursue....Proving in front of the entire world who supports terrorism.......

 

[Spectre]

Did India ever succeeded to prove that ? tell me

Yes. David Coleman Headley in the one name answer.

Statements by Musharaff, Nawaz Shariff and former ambassadors and top prosecutors of Pakistan have confirmed the allegations either directly and through inference

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Give pakistan kashmir,

I'm cool with that, though I would still want Pakistan to conduct a UN monitored referendum after the handover to ensure public support for merger with Pakistan - in any case, a handover to Pakistan of J&K (or at least Kashmir minus Jammu) would rectify India's crimes of illegally invading and annexing Junagadh, Mundavadh and Hyderabad.

I don't know, when she was working in afghanistan with pakistani fixers to get interviews with taliban leaders, or when she came across the duplicity of Pakistani intel agencies n WoT, it could have been quite a few instances, but why does it matter. She is wrong, she should not be taken seriously, she is a sellout etc etc etc. So is the US state dept, all the journalists at guardian, NY post, Wash.post, time, ISAF chiefs, etc. Indians are terrorists, US is unfair, no terrorist in India ever came from Pakistan, India unleashed false flag attacks on Indians yada yada yada. I know the routine.

Perhaps she should have paid attention to the duplicity of the US and Afghans in allowing Baloch terrorists to continue sheltering in Afghanistan, or a refusal of the US to unequivocally come out (during a majority of the Karzai years) on the Durand Line being the accepted international border and convincing Karzai to accept the same.

Perhaps she should have paid attention to the US reduction in resources in Afghanistan (before the job was done) to fight a war in Iraq which led Pakistan to believe it would be left holding the ruins of yet another failed Western intervention in Afghanistan ala post Soviet Afghanistan.

Nothing occurs in a vacuum - US policy makers were drunk on their perceived lightening successes in Afghanistan and then Iraq, and perhaps even hoped to 'trim off' parts of Pakistan between Afghanistan and India as they built up an Indian counterweight to China. Certainly the relative silence of the US on a long settled (internationally) issue like the Durand Line and their refusal to chastise Karzai and his government for repeated stoking of tensions with Pakistan over Baloch terrorism and the Durand did little other than cast long term US plans for Pakistan and Afghanistan in an extremely negative light.

The rest of your post is just a mishmash of everything under the sun - Syrian and Arab terrorists carried out attacks in Europe and the US - that doesn't mean those attacks were sanctioned by the Syrian or Saudi State. Dedicated terrorists have a knack of crossing borders to carry out attacks. Blindly blaming the ISI/PA every single time is, as I pointed out, the result of decades of Indian government anti-Pakistan hate-propaganda fed to the Indian masses.

 

[Maarkhoor]

Yes. David Coleman Headley in the one word answer.

Statements by Musharaff, Nawaz Shariff and former ambassadors and top prosecutors of Pakistan have confirmed the allegations either directly and through inference

David Headley is US citizen the conspire, arrange funds in USA it is clear Pakistan or Pakistani intelligence was not involved.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

.
Whole Senate body asks govt to adopt ISI-related bill | Top Story | thenews.com.pk

This bill will make ISI answerable to parliament, and it also recommends internal accountability.

The ISI is already legally answerable to the Prime Minister, and the PM can order the ISI to brief parliament, so what specifically does this bill change?

 

[MilSpec]

Well........ are you suggesting that we are buy this jets and subs to avert attacks like 26/11????..Yes Jets and subs makes sense when war is the only option left.....Ok let us discuss what were the option left with GOI????

1) Striking the terror factories???? We all know how successful were the so called "Drones" got inside pakistan, That too with having the best possible intel and equipment's......What guarantee do we have that we will be striking the factories as we assumed them to be .... Do we have such precise intel???? I doubt.... Even if we have them how you plan to do it??? And how successful do you assume it to be??? - I do no think we are equipped to conduct a OBL kind of raid inside Pak.... Yes may be we can fire some of our missile to this so called factories, but how you will you prove to the world that it was terrorist who was killed in the strike????

But then there are other options, which GoI chose to pursue....Proving in front of the entire world who supports terrorism.......

Interesting, If we have to ome up with strategies to counter source of terrorism, or tactical insertions, Pivot corp deployments, rapid incursions, or pre-emptive interdictions, then what is the security administration of the nation headed by the PM, and Chiefs doing. let them resign.

If you do not have a strategy to overcome all the tools of your enemy - You have Failed.
If you cannot make you enemy realise the consequence of escalatory engagement - You have failed.

Successive government including this one has FAILED.

As far as proofs, I don't need to prove anything to anyone, French were attacked, they did not give a flying F before bombing hq of ISIS.

But the bottom line is I am wrong, my anger is misplaces, everything is hunkydory. We should keep this peace process on track.

 

[Maarkhoor]

@Spectre
before leveling blames on Pakistan check your home first who helped terrorists to infiltrate, provide logistics and help them to hide in the base.
and for Kashmir if Pakistani stance was / is wrong then its mean Azad Kashmir is illegally occupied by Pakistan and some Part by China ask your Govt to go get it back.

 

[nair]

The nation put the leader touted the strongest at the helm of affairs, and he is now purring like a kitty cat.

I agree on this..... When you listen to our ministers these days they would sound exactly like, SM Krishna, MMS, during UPA regime........

Well you, @Spectre @Levina all seem to be saying that everything is fine and we are on the right track, then maybe I have lost my mind. So don't mind me, lets continue with the peace talks.

Well I dont think thats we meant (not me atleast). weighing the options infront of us, we will have to choose the best, and talk seems to be best available option.......

 

[Spectre]

David Headley is US citizen the conspire, arrange funds in USA it is clear Pakistan or Pakistani intelligence was not involved.

Oh Please! do you even believe your own argument? Headley confirmed ISI's involvement.

 

[Razia Sultana]

@MilSpec: Cant disagree with you but yet I would disagree. India's response to Pathankot terror attack was timid or so called "mature" because after throwing a few bouncers, latest one being the Lahore journey, we never expected a first ball googly. But we aren't out yet and still holding the wicket. Its how we face the next ball should decide our stance. Till such time, we can only hope that we do have a strategy and something like plan A, plan B etc.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Dude, we elected the strongest freakin candidate ever fielded, and is purring like a kitty cat.

You should start looking into 'why's' beyond the usual 'weak political leadership excuses' - like I said, the world is shades of grey, not black and white, and you lot of Indian's have swallowed the jingoistic and irrational 'black and white' poison of your government and snake oil salespersons like Christine Fair 'hook, line and sinker'.

They day you start thinking outside your bubble and reflect on the fact that there are two sides to an issue is when you'll stop hysterically beating up your political leadership and yourselves 'for not going ape-shit on Pakistan'.

 

[Maarkhoor]

Oh Please! do you even believe your own argument? Headley confirmed ISI's involvement.

ISI is may be a GOD for you but not for me, every single laps in a Indian security blames ISI, why not BSF are they always sleeping who failed to guard even fenced border. Where is RAW they are also sleeping ? many other intelligence agencies where are they. Don't blame for your own weaknesses.

 

[Levina]

The ISI is already legally answerable to the Prime Minister, and the PM can order the ISI to brief parliament, so what specifically does this bill change?

The bill had suggested that the ISI should be answerable to parliament and the prime minister and recommended internal accountability and a better discipline system within the organisation to put an end to “enforced disappearances and victimisation of political parties”.

The proposed legislation provided for a director general of the agency who shall be a serving or retired civil servant of Grade 22 or of an equivalent rank in the armed forces to be appointed by the president on the recommendation of prime minister and shall hold the office for four years. The ISI shall be directly under the prime minister and not under any ministry.

The bill envisaged an Intelligence and Security Committee of Parliament comprising nine members drawn from both Houses with none of whom being a minister or minister of state to examine matters relating to expenditure, administration and policy of the agency. The committee will not be allowed to go into the intelligence sources of the ISI.

The prime minister shall lay before each House of Parliament a copy of the annual report of the committee together with a statement as to whether any matter has been excluded from it and why, the bill said.

It said that in the case of missing persons, the federal government formally stated before the Supreme Court on April 27, 2007 that the operations of the intelligence agencies were beyond its control. It suggested that the director general may issue written orders for taking into preventive custody any person who in his opinion is acting or has acted in furtherance of a terrorist act or in a manner prejudicial to the security of Pakistan, or has aided or abetted any such act.

The bill said that the director general shall fix the period of custody, not exceeding 30 days, in the order of preventive detention of any such person and this period can be extended up to 90 days on special grounds. If a person is required to be detained for more than 90 days, the ISI chief shall place the matter before a review board set up for the purpose under Article 10 of the Constitution, it said.

An ISI officer not below the rank of Grade 18 should be authorised in writing by the director general to enter any premises which may contain information of substantial importance to the agency, the bill said. It added that any ISI employee found in any way working for the enemy, any terrorist or terrorist organisation, or for any criminal or organized criminal group, shall, on conviction, for every such offence be punished with imprisonment for a term which may extend to 25 years and with fine. The ISI employees shall not be regarded as civil servants and the bill prescribed a separate mode of taking disciplinary action against them for misconduct