Pakistan’s Terror Game

[MilSpec]

We are not cowards .. we would have attacked kashmir long ago when china had given us green signal and you were vulnerable but we are not coward and we do not back stab we will attack like a man from the front .. but not when you want .. we will chose our spot and time we donot need your advice .

I don't think you understand sarcasm. But anyways your post has quite a few contradiction which kind of defeats the objective of my tirade.
@Spectre man this guy killed it, or I was ready to vent for another page.

 

[Perpendicular]

May be at some point Pakistan used the jihadi scum for its territorial ambitions but lately it's just a tool for pak fouj to keep alive an enemy imagined and dictate terms to civvies for its policy towards India.
But I will agree with @MilSpec that the success of this tool (to whatever degree) is to be blamed on India itself, none other.
May be India needs another woman prime minister to finish the half done job by the last woman prime minister.

 

[MilSpec]

May be at some point Pakistan used the jihadi scum for its territorial ambitions but lately it's just a tool for pak fouj to keep alive an enemy imagined and dictate terms to civvies for its policy towards India.
But I will agree with @MilSpec that the success of this tool (to whatever degree) is to be blamed on India itself, none other.
May be India needs another woman prime minister to finish the half done job by the last woman prime minister.

Mamata banerjee, Jaylalitha, or Mayawati - Pick you poison..... ROFL....

Dude, we elected the strongest freakin candidate ever fielded, and is purring like a kitty cat.

 

[Spectre]

Never fight a war that you cannot win, the question is why have you let yourself to be in the position where you can't win, and what can you do to change that.

Actions need to have reactions, and the reaction to 26/11 makes me ashamed of calling myself an Indian, and I am a nationalist to last living breath. Unless we stop this beancounter mentality and start standing up, all the blood spilled for making this country is futile.

I agree about 26/11 - our Govt showed chilling impotence.

As for fighting a war we can't win - that is unfair. You very well know there is a nuclear angle at play. All out war put simply is not an option we can exercise like we did pre-Kargil. There are firm boundaries which must be respected.

Given that we have a adversarial neighbor who with no regard to the long term damage it has been doing to it's own populace still persists in indulging in terror what can we do is a question - I am afraid I have no clear cut answers too - infact no one does however I will still put forth some options

1. Economic engagement and dependence - Encourage trade with Pakistan so that it's withdrawal will hurt and may force them to re-consider their strategy. However China is essentially filling up this role at present and I see no way in which we can become irreplaceable partners of Pakistan as we do not have the capacity to produce low cost goods of reasonable quality.

2. Arms Race - Take our offensive and defensive arsenal many notches above that of Pakistan. At present we are at reasonable parity if you consider two front war. We can only hope to contain Pakistan not dominate it. Even in a single front, limited war our forces are hopelessly under equipped to dominate Pakistan. Long term war we might dominate but that carries nuclear risk. Investment required would put a huge strain on our economy and fiscal deficit will balloon. Even that in no way guarantees superiority as China would prop up Pakistan for each penny we spend.

Given the above factors I see no way out except for be prepared for such attacks in future, invest in overhauling surveillance and counter intelligence to prevent such attacks and if and when they happen - just grin and bear it.

That my friend is the sad reality however much I wish it weren't so. In terms of cover ops I believe we are doing as much as we can to extract the cost. The details of-course are not for public consumption. You and I may never know if Doval and company can twiddling their thumbs or burning candles at both ends.

 

[MilSpec]

I agree about 26/11 - our Govt showed chilling impotence.

As for fighting a war we can't win - that is unfair. You very well know there is a nuclear angle at play. All out war put simply is not an option we can exercise like we did pre-Kargil. There are firm boundaries which must be respected.

You asked about difference between Israel and India, what did israel do to the slightest news of nuclear enrichment by Saddam, and what did we do when we had the same precedence with Zia?

 

[Spectre]

You asked about difference between Israel and India, what did israel do to the slightest news of nuclear enrichment by Saddam, and what did we do when we had the same precedence with Zia?

Yes we goofed up big time and are going to pay for that mistake for a long long time. No arguments. You do have to realized that both China and US were passively supporting Pakistan towards this end at a time when Soviets were muzzled effectively.

India I still believe should have gone for attacking nuclear facilities irrespective of the Global sentiment. As of now we stand hostage to the Pakistan's good graces and Pakistan in full cognizance of this fact gets up to all kinds of mischief with no fear of reprisal.

 

[nair]

I agree about 26/11 - our Govt showed chilling impotence.

I do not agree with you here, Probably the reason why you call them impotent, may be because ......

Given that we have a adversarial neighbor who with no regard to the long term damage it has been doing to it's own populace still persists in indulging in terror what can we do is a question - I am afraid I have no clear cut answers too - infact no one does however I will still put forth some options

some would like to call it "Impotent", and some may like to call it a "Matured response", and irony is both could be right......I guess 26/11 was used pretty well by GoI to its advantage.......

 

[MilSpec]

Yes we goofed up big time and are going to pay for that mistake for a long long time. No arguments. You do have to realized that both China and US were passively supporting Pakistan towards this end at a time where Soviets were muzzled effectively.

So? Because we took reactors out, both china and US would have nuked us?

It would have been sanctions, but not a nuclear blackmail to live for the rest of our lives? let's do the famed calculations?

 

[Spectre]

So? Because we took reactors out, both china and US would have nuked us?

It would have been sanctions, but not a nuclear blackmail to live for the rest of our lives? let's do the famed calculations?

No I don't believe US would have nuked us. I have further elaborated in my previous post .

India I still believe should have gone for attacking nuclear facilities irrespective of the Global sentiment. As of now we stand hostage to the Pakistan's good graces and Pakistan in full cognizance of this fact gets up to all kinds of mischief with no fear of reprisal.

Source: Pakistan’s Terror Game | Page 4

 

[nair]

Mamata banerjee, Jaylalitha, or Mayawati -

All three are the closest dictators in the country

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

No you didn't point out how flawed her credentials were - you remarked on the expletives she may have hurled in her personal capacity which in no way lessen the weight of her arguments.

I asked you why being employed by the institutions you mentioned is an automatic validation of her positions on Pakistan, and I questioned whether her institution was even aware of her expletive laden vitriol and irrational statements against Pakistan when they hired her. Both those questions are relevant to your claim that the identity of her employers somehow automatically bestows upon her more credibility when it comes to commenting on India-Pakistan affairs.

Who is rational on India-Pakistan matters? All Indians are jingoists according to you and a third party who is a respected professor whose views are courted by premier institutions including senate committees, US congress, state dept, West Point among others is an an obsessed fool. So that leaves only sane person as Pakistanis. Way to Go!!

Any commentator that chooses to view complex geo-political dynamics as 'black and white' and paints one of the players as 'Satan incarnate on earth' and calls for complete capitulation by one player to the other is inherently taking a one sided, biased and irrational position.

The most contentious claim made by Fair, that Pakistan's claim on Kashmir is baseless, is also the most obviously irrational, flawed and non-objective claim she makes. She can't even take an objective position on an obvious issue like the Kashmir Dispute!

 

[MilSpec]

.I guess 26/11 was used pretty well by GoI to its advantage.......

Then why buy billions of dollars worth of jets and subs... Lets buy printers and stationary, as that is the best route for us. Atleast bring the Tax slab down to 15% throughout.

 

[Sipahi]

hehe.

Un-substantiated... you need substantiation of Pakistan's active role in terrorism in India, and you have been a Moderator on this forum, and keenly followed developments in this area for years now.

I am trying to be like all of my countrymen, I am asking for fiscal responsibility. If the government doesn't have the capability to provide security to citizenry as it leverages security with economic investment metrics, then atleast provide tax relief to the people. Say 10% for removal of national defences, and another 5% by elimination of military assets.

If they still need to maintain a military force for protection of ambanis and tata's assets they can accrue it from their coffers. Why burden the regular folks who neither care about their fellow citizens being blown to bits or have any concerns for sovereignty.


Please don't bring a country like Israel into the discussion. It will be to shameful to draw any comparison.

Outsourcing Indian security ???

 

[Maarkhoor]

What i childish thinking first of all we in agreement not to attack nuclear installation even in case of war Ok everything is fare in love and war so India attack Pakistan nuclear facilities then ?
around two hundred nukes will land on India ? no matter what is the consequences. Suppose Pakistan choose not to attack India, Pakistan still have around 150 to 200 nukes and China can provide reactors in a quick time then what you will do. To keep our neighbors in check we have nukes and will maintain them, India should have learn to live with that.

 

[MilSpec]

All three are the closest dictators in the country

The nation put the leader touted the strongest at the helm of affairs, and he is now purring like a kitty cat.
Well you, @Spectre @Levina all seem to be saying that everything is fine and we are on the right track, then maybe I have lost my mind. So don't mind me, lets continue with the peace talks.