Pakistan's Submarine Procurement

[ice_man]

are we ever going to buy new subs? not like they are getting cheaper OR nations are lining up to sell them to us!

sadly time flies and soon are AGOSTAS will be outdated in a decade!

 

[Karl]

Don't expect any submarine purchases before 2020 guys!

 

[jamesseo89]

Though if PN produced 6 Agosta-90Bs at home then it will be good for PN as well then from 2004-5 PN can put some money on a JV with Germans on three types of SSKs
3000+ tons SSK
1600 tons SSK
700+ tons SSK(For Pakistan Coastal Teritory Only)

All of these would really make a difference in making a defence ring that can handle many portions of Maritime Security.

 

[Super Falcon]

U 214 was best option pn taking decades to decide we lost the deal

 

[Asian.Century]

Pakistan needs much needed improvement and new induction of submarines.
Pakistan Submarine Capabilities

The Pakistan Navy operates a fleet of five diesel-electric submarines and three MG110 miniature submarines (SSI). [1] Although these vessels are currently based at Karachi, it is possible that in the future some may also be based at Port Ormara. [2] The nucleus of the fleet is comprised of two Agosta-70 boats and three modern Agosta-90B submarines, all of French design. Pakistan's third Agosta-90B, the S 139 Hamza, was constructed indigenously and features the DCNS MESMA (Module d'EnergieSous-Marin Autonome) air-independent propulsion (AIP) system. Pakistan began retrofitting the two earlier Agosta-90B vessels with the MESMA AIP propulsion system when they underwent overhaul in 2011. [3]

Submarine Tables for Pakistan

• Pakistan Active Duty Submarines
• Hangor (Daphne)
• Hashmat (Agosta 70)
• Khalid (Agosta 90B)

The Agosta-90B Hamza (Khalid-class) was constructed at the Karachi Shipyard and Engineering Works (KSEW). [4] Pakistani officials and media outlets extolled the accomplishment, treating the indigenous submarine's 26 September 2008 commissioning as a significant step in the enhancement of the country's naval capabilities vis-à-vis India. [5] It is the first conventional submarine in the Indian Ocean to feature the AIP system (in this case a 200KW liquid oxygen MESMA AIP), which allows the vessel to increase its submerged endurance for up to 3 weeks and improves its stealth characteristics. [6]

Hashmat (Agosta 70) Submarine

During the 1971 war between India and Pakistan, India effectively blockaded the port of Karachi, Pakistan's only major harbor. In response, Islamabad was able to curtail India's naval supremacy only through the use of its submarine force, which sank one Indian frigate. [7] Drawing on these experiences and the perceived threat posed by a larger Indian Navy, Pakistan has been continuously investing in its submarine force, within the constraints posed by its economy.

An effective sea-denial capability is vital to Pakistan. Given that over 96 percent of this trade is seaborne, the Pakistan Navy and its submarine fleet is charged with protecting the country's sea lanes of communication (SLOC). [8]

Developments in India's naval infrastructure and force posture significantly inform Pakistan's own naval planning. In February 2001, the Pakistan Navy publicly considered the deployment of nuclear weapons aboard its submarines, arguing that it had to keep pace with developments in India. [9] Islamabad later rescinded its statement in January 2003, reaffirming Pakistan's commitment to a "minimum credible deterrence." [10] In the wake of India's short-range Agni-I test that month, then Chief of Naval Staff Admiral Shahid Karimullah left the option open, saying that the country had no plans to deploy nuclear weapons on its submarines, and that it would do so only if "forced to." [11] But most experts agree that Pakistan is, at the very least, attempting to develop a sea-based version of the indigenously built nuclear capable ground-launched 'Babur' cruise missile. [12] This missile is similar in design to the American Tomahawk and Russian KH-55 cruise missiles. [13]

Khalid (Agosta 90B) Submarine

Pakistan has explored options to purchase additional advanced diesel-electric submarines in an attempt to address the country's "critical force imbalance" with India, which plans to begin acquiring six French AIP-equipped Scorpène submarines at a rate of one per year in 2014. [14] Discussions between the Pakistan Navy and Germany's ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems (TKMS) began in 2004 concerning the possible purchase of three diesel-electric Type 214 submarines equipped with an AIP system based on fuel cell technology. Although the deal appeared close to completion in 2008, it stalled over financing concerns and German political opposition to fueling an arms race in South Asia. [15] Parallel to the negotiations with TKMS, France also attempted to sell its Marlin or Scorpène-class submarines to Pakistan, and revived discussions after Pakistan failed to finalize the contract with Germany. [16] In May 2011, the Pakistani cabinet approved the start of negotiations with China over the purchase of diesel-electric submarines equipped with AIP. [17]

Pakistan Submarine Capabilities | Articles | NTI Analysis | NTI

 

[Gentelman]

are we ever going to buy new subs? not like they are getting cheaper OR nations are lining up to sell them to us!

sadly time flies and soon are AGOSTAS will be outdated in a decade!

You will get one before decade don't worry Agostas (90-B) were upgraded in 2011 they aren't going anywhere before 2025...

 

[Basel]

You will get one before decade don't worry Agostas (90-B) were upgraded in 2011 they aren't going anywhere before 2025...

Can you confirm that now they can carry some new kind of missile CM or BM around 1000km range??

 

[S.Y.A]

hey didnt janes reported that pakistan and china will sign a deal by the end of 2014 for 6 new subs? so people please stay put, if no deal is signed then you can complain about why we are not getting new subs.

Can you confirm that now they can carry some new kind of missile CM or BM around 1000km range??

we dont need any CM having a range of a 1000km as of now. our navy's sole purpose is denying Karachi to indian navy. the subs we have now are enough for that. until and unless we are converting our navy into an offensive force. also subs even without AIP are quite dangerous, this news article is one example of that:
China sub stalked U.S. fleet - Washington Times

 

[Basel]

we dont need any CM having a range of a 1000km as of now. our navy's sole purpose is denying Karachi to indian navy. the subs we have now are enough for that. until and unless we are converting our navy into an offensive force. also subs even without AIP are quite dangerous, this news article is one example of that:

Thankfully Navy don't think like that.

 

[S.Y.A]

Thankfully Navy don't think like that.

navy thinks exactly like that, i have talked to quite a few navy officers, and most of them think like this.

and they will keep on thinking like this, until they have a budget 10x of what they are getting now.

 

[Basel]

navy thinks exactly like that, i have talked to quite a few navy officers, and most of them think like this.
and they will keep on thinking like this, until they have a budget 10x of what they are getting now.

I have opposite to what you have from Naval officers, and when I asked one about Ships having those he said Sub will be more effective having them as they have more chance of survival but PN needs them in number to do that (at least 12) and with most advance tech like German Navy U-212 have,

 

[S.Y.A]

I have opposite to what you have from Naval officers, and when I asked one about Ships having those he said Sub will be more effective having them as they have more chance of survival but PN needs them in number to do that (at least 12) and with most advance tech like German Navy U-212 have,

this is what i am saying, and PN cant have that type of tech until and unless they get a large sum of money.

with the pathetic situation we are in, lets hope the chinese sub deal is not just a rumor.

 

[dexter]

My freind from Navy told me that Pakistan is interested in German subs he didnt even mention about any chinese sub,
well that sounds wierd.

 

[Basel]

as threat have evolved PN may have decided to go for German subs as German AIP SSKs r most advance when it comes to stealth specially against MAD, about which Indians claim that PN subs can't hide from P-8Is due to their systems specially MAD.

but PN may go for big Chinese subs too after that because they offer customization which German subs may not offer.

Also German subs can launch SAMs too.

 

[Gentelman]

Can you confirm that now they can carry some new kind of missile CM or BM around 1000km range??

Where does it is written that upgrade means carrying some new kind of missile of more than 1000km range??
No till now it don't carry any such missile...