Pakistan's Submarine Procurement

[Nishan_101]

agosta

open for rectification

Although It was a nice idea to get those Agosta-70s that were not accepted by the country that had placed the order. But PN should have used this deal to pressurized the French by buying them on cheap as well as gaining the license production of other 3 of the same type that would have enchance the capability at that time. I wish that PN might be looking towards JV with Chinese on SSKs as well as on SSBNs as the future of the Navies lies beneath the waters....!!! As now submarines can do any role from frigates role to mine hunters as well. I think you people would have remembered that the Germans had even build a fuel supply submarine instead of a tanker to hide it from the enemy....

I wish that if PN had taken some serious decisions in this regards and planned a Navy like this for future:
21 SSKs
7 SSBNs
11 Corvettes of 2100 Tons Multi missions
3 Tanker/logistical Ships
11 FACs

Watch this:

So it means that we can deploy UCAVs like male or hale ones from the subs in future..

 

[nomi007]

Although It was a nice idea to get those Agosta-70s that were not accepted by the country that had placed the order. But PN should have used this deal to pressurized the French by buying them on cheap as well as gaining the license production of other 3 of the same type that would have enchance the capability at that time. I wish that PN might be looking towards JV with Chinese on SSKs as well as on SSBNs as the future of the Navies lies beneath the waters....!!! As now submarines can do any role from frigates role to mine hunters as well. I think you people would have remembered that the Germans had even build a fuel supply submarine instead of a tanker to hide it from the enemy....

I wish that if PN had taken some serious decisions in this regards and planned a Navy like this for future:
21 SSKs
7 SSBNs
11 Corvettes of 2100 Tons Multi missions
3 Tanker/logistical Ships
11 FACs

Watch this:

So it means that we can deploy UCAVs like male or hale ones from the subs in future..

i think you are kid
what will be the cost of all these?

 

[Malik Alashter]

Although It was a nice idea to get those Agosta-70s that were not accepted by the country that had placed the order. But PN should have used this deal to pressurized the French by buying them on cheap as well as gaining the license production of other 3 of the same type that would have enchance the capability at that time. I wish that PN might be looking towards JV with Chinese on SSKs as well as on SSBNs as the future of the Navies lies beneath the waters....!!! As now submarines can do any role from frigates role to mine hunters as well. I think you people would have remembered that the Germans had even build a fuel supply submarine instead of a tanker to hide it from the enemy....

I wish that if PN had taken some serious decisions in this regards and planned a Navy like this for future:
21 SSKs
7 SSBNs
11 Corvettes of 2100 Tons Multi missions
3 Tanker/logistical Ships
11 FACs

Watch this:

So it means that we can deploy UCAVs like male or hale ones from the subs in future..

that cost @ least 12 billion $ in minimum can Pakistan afford that????.

 

[Desert Fox]

that cost @ least 12 billion $ in minimum Pakistan afford that????.

Perhaps even more.

 

[Aamir Hussain]

When the deal for the Agosta70 was done China was and to some extent, today (But fast catching up) behind in sub technology. The Chinese subs during that time were the Romeos and Whisky Class bought from USSR or assembled in China. Therefore, if I understand your argument correctly, going the China route in the late 70's was not an option. Our own expertise in maintainign the Daphne's was just getting up there. The first refit in Pakistan was to happen in 82'.

Furthermore, PN experience with Chinese equipment was not all that good. High maint., major modifications, constant breakdowns was order of the day with Chinese Gun/Missile Boats.

However, like in everything else, China has done well to progress to where it is today -- the biggest boost to Chinese progress was opening up its economy and trading with the west and breaking up of USSR. Buying western products off the shelf and reverse engineering them, in some cases getting license production deals in place for western non offensive systems and getting help from Russia, for payment, in design and development of keel up projects has helepd it tremendously. Expat. Chinese comming back to China from west where they were working on sensitive projects has also helped give boost to its understanding of complex systems.

Today, where China is focussing is powerplant, electronics/radar, eletctronic supression, and ASW systems. The Chinese Navy also needs to develop blue water skills of its personnel including fire-fighting/damage control (A hand me down from USSR days -- they also till today lack in Firefighting/damage control skills) procedures.

 

[Aamir Hussain]

yar you are welcome! i found it on a moroco'n forum-- they are sch nice pics that i couldnt believe they were ours , so i was tentative and said open for rectification if it turns up of some other country-- then i saw the suzuki cultus and knew they were apnee ;-)

The biggest giveaway was the Type 21 smoke stack in the dry dock behind the subs. If you check GE, you can pretty much align yourself with where the pics were taken.

thanks for sharing these snaps with us on this forum. Great work indeed.

Btw which Morrocan forum?

 

[Nishan_101]

I meant that when the Agosta-70 deal was been done the PN could play a wild card by buying them cheap as well as get license production with full French help to produce three Agosta-70s at later during five years time.

 

[monitor]

Any update about PN U-214 deal or any other submarine ?

 

[The SC]

That didn't go through apparently.
But Pakistan is getting some of the most sophisticated Submarines, the Qing class ones with AIP, so anyone or almost with enough money, can get the U 214 , but very few can get their hands on /or know the technologies found in the Qing class Submarines.
The domestically made nuclear powered Submarine option is also on the table, it does not have to be huge, the Us started with a very successful design of barely 5000 tons (The Nautilus).

 

[Nishan_101]

Although U-214 question is now disappeared as the PN had shown its interest in Chinese equipment. I think going for a JV with China on SSKs is a good idea and it will easily full fill the need of 21 SSks in coming 10-15 years soon...

 

[Aamir Hussain]

Thre question is are the Chinese willing to share ToT of Imroved Songs/Qings? The Chinese possiblity is there but purely from infrastructure, training, and experience point of view the French connection either in the shape of the more A90's or Marlins are more suited to our current situation.

The U-214 is another platform with a completely new everything. If we had money and time, let us five t oeight years ago, this would have been a great option. Germany really has no defence deals with Pakistan in the past that included offensive weapons. The deals that we had with them in the past were either small arms or Unimogs, Tank Transporters, and Heavy Trucks.

 

[Malik Alashter]

Well the real questions is why Pakistan build the agosta locally what is the benefit of that and a country like Pakistan when going to launch it's development programs to be ready for coming future, it's really sad that they give up to there fate and accepted to be at the bottom in the list of the other nations.

 

[The SC]

Chinese sub pops up in middle of U.S. Navy exercise:

When the U.S. Navy deploys a battle fleet on exercises, it takes the security of its aircraft carriers very seriously indeed.

At least a dozen warships provide a physical guard while the technical wizardry of the world's only military superpower offers an invisible shield to detect and deter any intruders.

That is the theory. Or, rather, was the theory.

American military chiefs have been left dumbstruck by an undetected Chinese submarine popping up at the heart of a recent Pacific exercise and close to the vast U.S.S. Kitty Hawk - a 1,000ft super-carrier with 4,500 personnel on board.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-492804/The-uninvited-guest-Chinese-sub-pops-middle-U-S-Navy-exercise-leaving-military-chiefs-red-faced.html

 

[darkinsky]

Armée Pakistanaise / Pakistani Armed Forces (PAF) - Page 27

this is a good site , but its in french

 

[Desert Fox]

Well the real questions is why Pakistan build the agosta locally what is the benefit of that and a country like Pakistan when going to launch it's development programs to be ready for coming future, it's really sad that they give up to there fate and accepted to be at the bottom in the list of the other nations.

We built Agosta locally because it enabled us to gain the valuable experience of building a submarine not to mention we got ToT from France, so the heavy machinery and skills will now be used to construct our own indigenous Submarines InshaAllah!