Pakistan's Special Operations Forces: SSG | SSGN | SSW | SOW | SOG

[EagleEyes]

They're light infantry with all the disadvantages of light infantry ... which would make them meat against any prepared enemy and nothing is ever going to change that.

Some of the units are equipped with advanced light armoured vehicles for counter insurgency. It helps over nothing.

 

[Officer of Engineers]

Probably in the western culture. Welcome to the east.

NBC masks don't fit over beards. Nothing is going to change that.

Some of the units are equipped with advanced light armoured vehicles for counter insurgency. It helps over nothing.

Which makes them motorized ... and the logistics, read gasoline, needed that automatically negates their deployment advantage.

 

[Samudra]

Probably in the western culture. Welcome to the east.

The Chinese ? Can't find many sporting beards in the forces.Welcome to the Far East.

 

[Keysersoze]

The Decline of Beards in Warfare
Increasingly banned in modern combat a rebirth is underway

© Christopher Eger

Jul 17, 2006



The Beard went from being the nearly only universal item in every army to being prohibited nearly everywhere and is now making a resurgence.

The beard was, from the time of the caveman until recent memory, considered standard issue among soldiers throughout history. In modern combat the act of shaving was set aside mainly for gentleman officers and who more often than not shaved even their heads and eyebrows. One artillery unit of the 18th Century Austrian Army that was ordered not to grow facial hair was referred to by their emperor as "My Little Shavers" whenever they were mentioned. It is harder to find a picture of an American Civil War general without a beard than with one.

By the time of World War two military forces had mandated the prohibition of beards for reasons of uniformity, hygiene, discipline, or tactical demands (such as the proper fitting and seal of a gas mask)

Before 1939, British army troops were allowed, with permission from their commander, to grow a beard. Since then, the only soldier in the battalion allowed a beard was the combat engineer sergeant and colour sergeants who was allowed to keep a beard by tradition. In both the Canadian and the French armies this traditional exception is also maintained as is the one that allows combat engineers to maintain beards. The navies of these countries also allow full sets of beards although currently this is under review.

The Israeli Defense Forces prohibit both beards and moustaches unless the member is an Orthodox Jew and is required by religious purposes to be unshaven. Having "unshorn" hair i.e. beard & mustache is an integral part of the Sikh religion. In the Sikh regiment & the Sikh light cavalry of the Indian army, as you might expect, soldiers are actually required to have beards & mustaches. Sikh servicemen in most western militaries are permitted to retain their beards while in military service.

The Spanish Legion (known until 1987 the Spanish Foreign Legion) allows beards to be grown and most of the men in that 10,000 man elite unit have them as a matter of honor.

The United States the Army and Marine Corps banned beards on grounds of personal hygiene just before world war one but they are permitted for medical reasons, such as temporary skin irritations if needed. The US Navy allowed beards for centuries especially for submariners but consigned the practice to Davy Jones's locker in the 1970's. The US Coast Guard banned beards in 1986 however The Coast Guard Pipe Band allows retired and reserve members to have beards and appear in uniform (which includes a Kilt) while on service with that unit.

History, due to tactical reasons, is repeating itself in Afghanistan where the militaries of many of the world's armed forces hung up their razors again. Selected American and British ground units were permitted to grow full beards and have worn them off and on since 2002. Afghans equate beards with being a man and it was found that the local population took the soldiers more serious once they had grown them. This also permitted small units such as Special Forces recon teams and air control parties to blend in better among the local population

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

 

[Officer of Engineers]

In both the Canadian and the French armies this traditional exception is also maintained as is the one that allows combat engineers to maintain beards.

Sorry, that's not true, Canadian combat engineers are not allowed beards. The Assault Pioneers (engineering recee for the infantry) are allowed beards but they're not really engineers.

 

[Keysersoze]

Sorry, that's not true, Canadian combat engineers are not allowed beards. The Assault Pioneers (engineering recee for the infantry) are allowed beards but they're not really engineers.

Hey it was a general information article lol.....

Personally I don't like beards. I think Shaving should be included as part of a daily hygiene routine.
The comment about people with beards being fierce made me laugh though.

 

[Officer of Engineers]

Heard this story back at Brigade. A young LT was 1st assigned to 4 Brigade and he was letting a few things slack. The RSM saw him and commented, "Sir, you need a shave."

The young buck turned officer on the RSM (Bad mistake) and made him stand at attention while dressing him down about the chain-of-command. The RSM replied, "You're right, Sir, please come with me."

They both went to the Colonel and the RSM said, "Sir, the Lieutenant needs a shave."

Without looking up, the Colonel said, "Lieutenant, get a shave."

 

[A.Rahman]

Heard this story back at Brigade. A young LT was 1st assigned to 4 Brigade and he was letting a few things slack. The RSM saw him and commented, "Sir, you need a shave."

The young buck turned officer on the RSM (Bad mistake) and made him stand at attention while dressing him down about the chain-of-command. The RSM replied, "You're right, Sir, please come with me."

They both went to the Colonel and the RSM said, "Sir, the Lieutenant needs a shave."

Without looking up, the Colonel said, "Lieutenant, get a shave."

 

[Neo]

This would make a good scene in a movie, I like it.
......

 

[Always Neutral]

Can you tell me more about the SSG's greatest success as well as their greatest failure ? One incident each

I think all SF's in the world need a few failures to learn their lessons and become invincible.

Still waiting to hear from my friends on the above (greatest success / failure)!

 

[Always Neutral]

Tough looking guys do they get any specific extra benefits, like para pay, diving allowance etc

Can anyone throw some light on the above ?

 

[Keysersoze]

Still waiting to hear from my friends on the above (greatest success / failure)!

Well you might be waiting a long time. The only time you will hear about failures it is because they were big enough to be found out.
For example the Iranian hostage situation and the whole "Black hawk down" fiasco for the Americans.

Again the same for successes If they are big enough to be found out (Or lots of former Sf people write about it) then it will be well known.

Clandestine organisations should not be in the public eye enough to give you examples. 99.9% of the examples you have heard about are probably bullshit or rumours.

 

[Always Neutral]

Well you might be waiting a long time. The only time you will hear about failures it is because they were big enough to be found out.
For example the Iranian hostage situation and the whole "Black hawk down" fiasco for the Americans.

Again the same for successes If they are big enough to be found out (Or lots of former Sf people write about it) then it will be well known.

Clandestine organisations should not be in the public eye enough to give you examples. 99.9% of the examples you have heard about are probably bullshit or rumours.

I understand what you say above makes sense and no organisation will talk about their failures
and only reluctantly talk about their success as they want to avoid media scrutiny. However sooner or later old boys talk for eg BBC has documented the hostage taking in Iran Embassy in London and full view of the media the SAS carried out the successfull operations. I had read about two operations which may have been carried out by SSG. I maybe wrong one was when a large group of Special Forces operatives were dropped behind Indian Lines to blow up their air bases however they were landed in the wrong place so could not carry the ops. I am not sure whether they were captured or successfully exfilterated back. Another operation I remember was the Hijacking of a Pan Am aircraft in Pakistan which was stormed by the Special Forces. A lot of passengers died during the storming.

Maybe some ex SSG chaps on this forum may wish to share his experiences not neccesarily India centric with civilians like us.

Regards

 

[blain2]

Can anyone throw some light on the above ?

No they don't. SSG payscale is higher than that of the regular Army but that is it. You do not get anything extra for having attended and qualified a specialization course.

 

[blain2]

I understand what you say above makes sense and no organisation will talk about their failures
and only reluctantly talk about their success as they want to avoid media scrutiny. However sooner or later old boys talk for eg BBC has documented the hostage taking in Iran Embassy in London and full view of the media the SAS carried out the successfull operations. I had read about two operations which may have been carried out by SSG. I maybe wrong one was when a large group of Special Forces operatives were dropped behind Indian Lines to blow up their air bases however they were landed in the wrong place so could not carry the ops. I am not sure whether they were captured or successfully exfilterated back. Another operation I remember was the Hijacking of a Pan Am aircraft in Pakistan which was stormed by the Special Forces. A lot of passengers died during the storming.

Maybe some ex SSG chaps on this forum may wish to share his experiences not neccesarily India centric with civilians like us.

Regards

Any SF operator worth his salt will tell you this that the proportion of failures is higher than the successes in Special Operations. This is due to the fact that most special operations by their nature are difficult and very risky.

Another thing to keep in mind is that you cannot compare the successes and failures of two SF outfits simply because one may have been employed a whole lot more than the other.

SSG have had their fair share of successes and failures. Among the failures that you mention, the 65 operations were indeed that, however there were very many mistakes committed in the employment of SSG. About 150 operators were dropped on three IAF bases and 100 or so were captured (10 or so KIA) and the rest exfiltrated.

I don't want to give a very detailed account of what led to their failure, however the biggest one was loss of initiative and improper employment. The SSG HQ was given an ultimatum to send the teams into India on the first day of the declared war when the Indian vigilance was the highest. They were sent in without any support once they were in and were given no way out. The fact that not one of the operators opted out is a testament of discipline and dedication to service and Pakistan. Lets not forget that.

During operation Qiyadat at Siachen, SSG suffered reverses as well and we can blame improper planning and an underestimation of the enemy strength.

PANAM issue was one due sheer bad luck. The newly trained SSG CT team had decided on moving against the plane but before they could, the aircraft lost power and the hijackers started shooting the passengers out of panic. This led to a hurried SSG intervention without having cleared the passengers out of harms way...as a result many died. It was sheer badluck in my opinion.

On the success side, the 1973 Baluch CI operations were spearheaded by the SSG and they were able to contain those very effectively along with the regular Army. The same goes for the extensive SSG support for operations inside of Afghanistan throughout the Soviet occupation of the country. The advising on the ground and training was again spearheaded by the SSG. Many successful operations in Siachen have been led by the SSG.

On UNPK duties, as part of MONUC, SSG operators have led the way in combat.

The issue is that if you want newspaper headline type of successes then there may not be many, however from the standpoint of importance, the SSG has done more than its fair share.

Let me end by stating that in 1966, it was decided by the PA to disband the SSG owing to its failures in the 65 war. A complete anlysis was done by the GHQ on these ops and it was found that it was not really the SSG capabilities but unrealistic expectations and improper employment that led to failures. When senior commanders from SSG started getting into the higher echelons of the Army, this perception was corrected greatly and SSG has been used very effectively in many operations such as those I have highlighted above. The SSG performance in the 1971 war was very good (but was overshadowed by the fall of EP). Otherwise in West Pakistani border and even during the CI ops by the SSG Bns, success rate was very high.