Pakistan's Special Operations Forces: SSG | SSGN | SSW | SOW | SOG

[blain2]

Not to nit pick but apparantly the entire 4th Brigade is in Saudi Arabia for the Protection of the Saudi Royal family according to:

http://www.********************/PakArmy/ssg.html

Is this hearsay just to be absolutely clear

At one time Pakistan had Div Plus presence in KSA. Not any more. As it is, SSG is small, secondment for duty in other countries is not a very big priority for the SSG. Training detachment is one thing, standing guard for someone else in another country an altogether different thing. Its not happening!

 

[Always Neutral]

Here we go again.......

No they weren't.......Pakistani Tanks and Malaysian APC's (with additional rangers on board)were used to rescue the members of that operation.

So unless SSG were there to drive tanks they were not there....

Provide some links instead of making stuff up please.

I agree. The facts of Somalia are very well documented. No SSG was involved. USA SF made a bad operational mistake and thats that. US SF are not so pathetic that they need another SF to rescue them ! What they needed was immediate on ground supporting fire and evacuation which the Malaysians and Pakistanis provided since the operation happened in the area where the Pakistani Armed Forces were deployed.

Please remember the Americans went into the area which came under Pakistans supervison
to catch Aideed the warlord and did not bother to inform anybody.

regards

 

[Always Neutral]

At one time Pakistan had Div Plus presence in KSA. Not any more. As it is, SSG is small, secondment for duty in other countries is not a very big priority for the SSG. Training detachment is one thing, standing guard for someone else in another country an altogether different thing. Its not happening!

This seems to be an old article. As far as I remember Pakistan withdrew all its forces except its advisors as Pakistan realised during the first Gulf War that to defend Saudi they may have to fight fellow muslims and not only Israelis. One must realise of all the foreign armies at that time Pakistan Army was the most suitable since they did not have women in their armies unlike the US or an EuropeanArmy and were fellow muslims and not to mention the most professional and were largely apolotical to the intrigues of the Saudi politics.

The Pakistan Army could not withdraw immediately after the First Gulf War as the Saudis had paid a lot of money as well as subsidised oil for the Pakistani Army to be stationed there. When the first Gulf War started the US Armed Forces swamped Saudi Arabia and have remained there and in Kuwait though they keep a very low profile. After the Gulf war You may remember OBL started his original Jihad to get the US army out of Saudi Arabia his country.

Now US armed forces are in total control there and the Saudi airforce has a big element of the RAF there. Hopefully we will get the GBP 40 Billion Yamamah-II contract ( Spread over 15 years) soon from Saudi.

Regards

PS : This info was from an RAF Wing Cdr who spent 3 years there till early 2007 and an ale buddy

 

[blain2]

I agree. The facts of Somalia are very well documented. No SSG was involved. USA SF made a bad operational mistake and thats that. US SF are not so pathetic that they need another SF to rescue them ! What they needed was immediate on ground supporting fire and evacuation which the Malaysians and Pakistanis provided since the operation happened in the area where the Pakistani Armed Forces were deployed.

Please remember the Americans went into the area which came under Pakistans supervison
to catch Aideed the warlord and did not bother to inform anybody.

regards

True but one thing. Its a minor one but the evacuation was led by Pakistan and then Malaysian toops. The firepower was provided by Pakistani tanks and transport by Pakistani and Malaysian APCs. Pakistani M-48A5s were in use in Somalia at that time.

 

[SSG]

how can i join ssg

 

[Keysersoze]

Start by joining the army.......

 

[niaz]

This seems to be an old article. As far as I remember Pakistan withdrew all its forces except its advisors as Pakistan realised during the first Gulf War that to defend Saudi they may have to fight fellow muslims and not only Israelis. One must realise of all the foreign armies at that time Pakistan Army was the most suitable since they did not have women in their armies unlike the US or an EuropeanArmy and were fellow muslims and not to mention the most professional and were largely apolotical to the intrigues of the Saudi politics.

The Pakistan Army could not withdraw immediately after the First Gulf War as the Saudis had paid a lot of money as well as subsidised oil for the Pakistani Army to be stationed there. When the first Gulf War started the US Armed Forces swamped Saudi Arabia and have remained there and in Kuwait though they keep a very low profile. After the Gulf war You may remember OBL started his original Jihad to get the US army out of Saudi Arabia his country.

Now US armed forces are in total control there and the Saudi airforce has a big element of the RAF there. Hopefully we will get the GBP 40 Billion Yamamah-II contract ( Spread over 15 years) soon from Saudi.

Regards

PS : This info was from an RAF Wing Cdr who spent 3 years there till early 2007 and an ale buddy

If I remember correctly, PA was in Saudi Arabia before the First Gulf War; it was during the time of Zia and the Afghan jehad. There was an incident where one Saudi officer was being indecent towards wife of a Pakistani officer, a PA Hawaldar who saw the incident shot the Saudi Officer. Incredibly the Saudi survived but the whole brigade to which the NCO belonged was disarmed by the Saudis. Very soon after Pakistani contingent was replaced by the Bangla Deshis. Any of the Hon members of the forum who were serving in the PA at that time might remember the incident. I read it in the Time Magzine or such place. May be Hon Murad K recalls this as well.

Our contingent in first gulf war stayed for a very short time only and didnot take part in the fighting. Since the Gulf war, US presence has been so heavy in KSA, there has been no need for any foreign troops.

 

[Always Neutral]

If I remember correctly, PA was in Saudi Arabia before the First Gulf War; it was during the time of Zia and the Afghan jehad. There was an incident where one Saudi officer was being indecent towards wife of a Pakistani officer, a PA Hawaldar who saw the incident shot the Saudi Officer. Incredibly the Saudi survived but the whole brigade to which the NCO belonged was disarmed by the Saudis. Very soon after Pakistani contingent was replaced by the Bangla Deshis. Any of the Hon members of the forum who were serving in the PA at that time might remember the incident. I read it in the Time Magzine or such place. May be Hon Murad K recalls this as well.

Our contingent in first gulf war stayed for a very short time only and didnot take part in the fighting. Since the Gulf war, US presence has been so heavy in KSA, there has been no need for any foreign troops.

You are probably very right.

Regards

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

It seems to me that the SSG is going to be called upon to do these "Lal Masjid" kinds of operations more and more. Regardless of the message that was sent with the annihilation of the Lal Masjid, other madrassas (those who share the militant bent of the Mullah bradran) and terrorists are going to continue to stockpile weapons and instigate violence.

If anything, expect the next siege to be much harder because I would expect any such madrassas to start taking lessons from the Lal Masjid episode. The tribal areas are already notorious for having tunnel complexes under the safe houses that the militants use. Didn't Nek Muhammad initially escape from that massive siege from the PA by using tunnels that went out for several miles? This would mean that the sort of terrain the SSG is going to predominantly fight on is going to be extremely inhospitable and cramped.

Perhaps a good time to start discussing ground/wall penetrating radar acquisitions? Does anyone know if the SOTF and Zarrar Co. of the SSG train in mock urban settings? Perhaps we should turn the Jamia Hafsa into an SSG training compound; tunnels, basements, haphazard construction, 75 rooms.

 

[Keysersoze]

Dude wall penetration is easily done with any good engineer unit. In CQB of this size it is hard to have no casualties...

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Dude wall penetration is easily done with any good engineer unit. In CQB of this size it is hard to have no casualties...

Now when you speak of wall penetration, are you talking about demolition and/or creating access through walls?

Your point about casualties is valid.

I guess the point I was trying to make is that we have already seen Tribal militants utilize tunnel systems, that the Army was not aware of, to escape assaults and sieges. In the Lal Masjid operation, "allegedly" the tunnel system and basements under the complex caused a lot of headaches. Just wondering if utilization of GPR, before operations, would allow for fewer incidents where unknown tunnels allow militants to escape. For all I know, the technology may not even be applicable in the rocky terrain of FATA.

 

[Keysersoze]

Wall penetration is a simple matter of a shape charge. When we did FIBUA we had the facility for mouse hole charges to break into buildings. OOE would be the best guy to talk to regarding this as it is a engineering problem.

The basic reason I believe that there were any casualties at all is that the SSG were probably restricted in the means they could use in their room clearances. (I.E. they had to be careful in case hostages were in the room.)

 

[extinct]

Let me end by stating that in 1966, it was decided by the PA to disband the SSG owing to its failures in the 65 war. A complete anlysis was done by the GHQ on these ops and it was found that it was not really the SSG capabilities but unrealistic expectations and improper employment that led to failures. When senior commanders from SSG started getting into the higher echelons of the Army, this perception was corrected greatly and SSG has been used very effectively in many operations such as those I have highlighted above. The SSG performance in the 1971 war was very good (but was overshadowed by the fall of EP). Otherwise in West Pakistani border and even during the CI ops by the SSG Bns, success rate was very high.

In 1965:
1) every SSG asset who was called in did what he was asked of despite knowing full well the "suicide" nature of the mission.
2) Op planning was beyond dismal which was NOT done by SSG at all:
- pre-historic maps as reference.
- para-drops at incorrect co-ordinates.
- canal drownings of SSG assets w/ comm. equip.
- NO recent recon. of the op. area.
- absurd evac. plan "a PAF cargo plane will land and evac. the SSG"
3) The side-effect aim of the op. was to distract the indians and that did work, the indians moved their assets back to protect bridges and power-stations.

lets just say I know a very very close blood relative who led one of the teams, survived for days, carried out sabotage ops. and then got captured eventually...

It would have been the biggest possible loss to PA if they had disbanded this unit of brave souls. GHQ knew what imposibility they had asked Mitha's men to do in 1965 and they got just what they asked for. The idea of disbanding was floated to shift the blame...

SF ops. are won and lost on the drawing boards as the odds are already so much against that SF are called in.

 

[Always Neutral]

Wall penetration is a simple matter of a shape charge. When we did FIBUA we had the facility for mouse hole charges to break into buildings. OOE would be the best guy to talk to regarding this as it is a engineering problem.

The basic reason I believe that there were any casualties at all is that the SSG were probably restricted in the means they could use in their room clearances. (I.E. they had to be careful in case hostages were in the room.)

Dear Keys,

I did not see a single AMR. Actually the SSG do not look well equiped. Ok I know I am going to get a lot of flack from Pakistani Friends but the SSG looked like normal infantry.

Regards

 

[Keysersoze]

Dear Keys,

I did not see a single AMR. Actually the SSG do not look well equiped. Ok I know I am going to get a lot of flack from Pakistani Friends but the SSG looked like normal infantry.

Regards

AN you didn't see any RPG's either but then RPG's would have been the wrong thing to use here. There was a picture here (on one of the threads) of the assault troops fully kitted out with body armour helmets and weapons.