Pakistan's Special Operations Forces: SSG | SSGN | SSW | SOW | SOG

[Goritoes]

Come on yaar, seriously? Horses for courses, let’s not go down this road because it’s rather demeaning to start comparisons. Honestly, to me our boys are the best. To Americans it’s the SEALS or delta, the Brits will say that SAS are the best yada yada.

Oh Janab, ese tu duniya ki har Military baraber ho jati hai, you don't rate a SF on patriotism but on their performance. Now if you say SSG is best than you have to prove it, with their performance in the Operations, and what I see is that SSG lost many men in Operations. I don't care what they wear, heck they can wear Salwar kameez and Sheeshay wala Nara but what I care is that in Operation they kill the enemy without losing a single men.

Between 2001 and 2018 USSOCOM reported 369 casualties of special forces operators[1].

How many SSG we have lost since 2001 ? US SF were not only fighting with Taliban/AQ but also ANA, there are several incidents of Friendly fire where Afghan solider go crazy and killed a bunch of his own trainer, our SSG numbers are high without a single friendly fire incident.

Yes WileyX look cool and everything but very few operators use them outside of photo ops . That’s not to say what you so doesn’t carry merit. I’ve always been a fan of PPE.

Bhai its not about looking cool, I shared a Picture from literally a Operation, many pics I can post here from FATA operations where SSG operators are without glasses in a dry muddy environment, now you know a lot about Military Please tell if a solider is taking fire from Terrorist, a gush of wind can literally disturb his focus, damage his eyes, block vision and even put him in compromising position, Bhai my reason for bringing SAS and SEALS are not for PeePee measuring contest, every reputable SF used basic protective gear because it can save a life of a Commando, I rather have my Soldier look shiny COD bots but in the end if they come out alive that's good, rather than look all JAN RAMBO but dead.

Agreed, but at the same time they know what they are doing.

I hope so, but their performance/Gear in Operations points otherwise, I hope they are not just focus on increasing the numbers of SSG operatives rather than focus on their training and performance.

1st BAT ANA we’re trained by US Navy Seals. Just saying

Trained is the key word, you can bring the best SSG trainer for me I would still be noob, so would you say the SSG trainer sucks ? Afghans are nothing but hashish smoking soldiers who had no interest in fighting the taliban, they are disgrace to any Standing Army let alone SF.

Compared to what? Pakistan has been fighting the longest counter insurgency operation in recent history thanks to GWOT. Why should I compare our guys to SAS or Seals? So they compare our guys to theirs? Please yar.

Compared to other active SF in the world, Turks are Fighting PKK for decades, US in Afghanistan/Iraq, UK as well. Our guys doesn't need to compete with anyone they just have to be alive after operations, that's all that matters. Plus we are indeed seeing the some of the toughest insurgency but wouldn't you expect a Army/SF after years of fighting to learn a thing or two ? we are still losing men with horrible ration to the terrorist, just yesterday or so we lost 3 soldiers for 1-2 Terrorists. That's terrible, now SSG is different and I agree many of their Operations we will never hear about, but those which does becomes highlighted in the media, the news often is the same that SSG clear the building lose 1 or 2 men, SSG killed terrorists but 2 died etc

The reason is such operations have an inherent degree of risk which no matter how you slice it cannot be mitigated. It is the y( the unknown quantity) the unknown factor. Intel is never 100% - no plan survives first contact with the enemy.

Of course Intel can't be 100%, but I bet SF does trained themselves with keeping that factor in mind don't they ?

InshaAllah- but then again it’s not you or me putting on that uniform knowing I’m running to the threat when others run away. So

For that they have my respect, but here we need to avoid been Jazbati, cause Jazbaat se Jungen nai jeeti jati. We are losing this battle no matter how much you and others try to pretend, and one big factor of us losing is the poor performance of Army/ Intelligence agency sucks, no will/ horrible or no SOP, we hardly learn anything from past mistakes etc

No ballistic helmet offers 100% protection my brother. And this heet works that is why the US Army still use it:

Bhai if I am not wrong that's a marine, and not even the SF of Marine, Just a Trainy. Our boys are in Operation using that helmet that doesn't even look it fits their heads properly. Honestly if I was in SSG and saw that gear they want me to wear and fight, I'd quit on day 1.

This is Turkish Police SF unit, he is wearing a better equip than SSG, Look at his helmet/its quality/how it covers part of his ears, Look at his vest perfectly camo with his uniform, knee/elbow protections, even his shoulders look better protected. Look at the soldier and than see SSG, well I should stop here because what I will say next will upset you and others.

 

[RescueRanger]

See the bottom pic? That’s all I ask for.

Why can’t the roll out the same crye vests to everyone? I’m just speaking in terms of uniformity-

Edit: I’m not talking about NVGs or all the specialist gear. Just asking for the SSG to have a standard of all having very similar looking vests/body armour/helmets/helmet covers throughout the entire unit, that also looks professional

Lol what a childish thing to say. It costs $$$ my brother. $$$

Oh Janab, ese tu duniya ki har Military baraber ho jati hai, you don't rate a SF on patriotism but on their performance. Now if you say SSG is best than you have to prove it, with their performance in the Operations, and what I see is that SSG lost many men in Operations. I don't care what they wear, heck they can wear Salwar kameez and Sheeshay wala Nara but what I care is that in Operation they kill the enemy without losing a single men.


How many SSG we have lost since 2001 ? US SF were not only fighting with Taliban/AQ but also ANA, there are several incidents of Friendly fire where Afghan solider go crazy and killed a bunch of his own trainer, our SSG numbers are high without a single friendly fire incident.


Bhai its not about looking cool, I shared a Picture from literally a Operation, many pics I can post here from FATA operations where SSG operators are without glasses in a dry muddy environment, now you know a lot about Military Please tell if a solider is taking fire from Terrorist, a gush of wind can literally disturb his focus, damage his eyes, block vision and even put him in compromising position, Bhai my reason for bringing SAS and SEALS are not for PeePee measuring contest, every reputable SF used basic protective gear because it can save a life of a Commando, I rather have my Soldier look shiny COD bots but in the end if they come out alive that's good, rather than look all JAN RAMBO but dead.


I hope so, but their performance/Gear in Operations points otherwise, I hope they are not just focus on increasing the numbers of SSG operatives rather than focus on their training and performance.


Trained is the key word, you can bring the best SSG trainer for me I would still be noob, so would you say the SSG trainer sucks ? Afghans are nothing but hashish smoking soldiers who had no interest in fighting the taliban, they are disgrace to any Standing Army let alone SF.


Compared to other active SF in the world, Turks are Fighting PKK for decades, US in Afghanistan/Iraq, UK as well. Our guys doesn't need to compete with anyone they just have to be alive after operations, that's all that matters. Plus we are indeed seeing the some of the toughest insurgency but wouldn't you expect a Army/SF after years of fighting to learn a thing or two ? we are still losing men with horrible ration to the terrorist, just yesterday or so we lost 3 soldiers for 1-2 Terrorists. That's terrible, now SSG is different and I agree many of their Operations we will never hear about, but those which does becomes highlighted in the media, the news often is the same that SSG clear the building lose 1 or 2 men, SSG killed terrorists but 2 died etc


Of course Intel can't be 100%, but I bet SF does trained themselves with keeping that factor in mind don't they ?


For that they have my respect, but here we need to avoid been Jazbati, cause Jazbaat se Jungen nai jeeti jati. We are losing this battle no matter how much you and others try to pretend, and one big factor of us losing is the poor performance of Army/ Intelligence agency sucks, no will/ horrible or no SOP, we hardly learn anything from past mistakes etc


Bhai if I am not wrong that's a marine, and not even the SF of Marine, Just a Trainy. Our boys are in Operation using that helmet that doesn't even look it fits their heads properly. Honestly if I was in SSG and saw that gear they want me to wear and fight, I'd quit on day 1.

This is Turkish Police SF unit, he is wearing a better equip than SSG, Look at his helmet/its quality/how it covers part of his ears, Look at his vest perfectly camo with his uniform, knee/elbow protections, even his shoulders look better protected. Look at the soldier and than see SSG, well I should stop here because what I will say next will upset you and others.

Let’s agree to disagree. Because again you have made an effort to post a detailed reply.

I’ve already posted a detailed thread on the issue. I feel this is the problem with people who have not served in a uniformed organisation in a developing country.

They have rather unrealistic expectations.

 

[AlKardai]

Lol what a childish thing to say. It costs $$$ my brother. $$$

I only ask for matching bloody BDUs

 

[blain2]

I asked for uniformity, bloody hell.

We have a booming textiles industry, so providing BDUs for each SSG isn’t even that expensive of a task

I understand that but they have standard uniforms. However, when in the field on operations, nobody regulates that for the SSG. This was a gripe that many regular officers had of the SSG cadres that they don't dress, have the same turn out as of the regular army per regulations. However, due to the missions assigned, many days in the field, some of these regulations are relaxed.

On parade or during demos etc. at their home bases (Cherat, Tarbela, Peshawar etc.) they wear regulation clothing and use equipment available as per the TO&E of their unit. Could this equipment be more modern? Sure, but that is where you need more money.

Our defense budget (that everyone cries over) barely covers the upkeep of the troops and formations. It leaves very little for capital acquisitions (even finding funding for something like upgraded armor etc. is challenging. Were it not for MNNA status, the equipment would be even more dated). Keep in mind that even the carbines of US origin in use by the SSG are of a very basic type with very rudimentary optics added. This was all done to keep the cost down for PA. In general, PAF has done better for SSW (because the outfit is much smaller than SSG) with their smart-acquisition strategy etc.

Equipment aside, experience wise our boys are as good as any others. Instead of looking to import stuff all the time, our own good-for-nothing local industry needs to do better. The Turks crossed the $4B annual defence export threshold in 2022 and our idiots are still harping over exports of G-3s and not able to get past $1B. Just another case of underperforming manpower and economy.

 

[blain2]

Oh Janab, ese tu duniya ki har Military baraber ho jati hai, you don't rate a SF on patriotism but on their performance. Now if you say SSG is best than you have to prove it, with their performance in the Operations, and what I see is that SSG lost many men in Operations. I don't care what they wear, heck they can wear Salwar kameez and Sheeshay wala Nara but what I care is that in Operation they kill the enemy without losing a single men.


How many SSG we have lost since 2001 ? US SF were not only fighting with Taliban/AQ but also ANA, there are several incidents of Friendly fire where Afghan solider go crazy and killed a bunch of his own trainer, our SSG numbers are high without a single friendly fire incident.


Bhai its not about looking cool, I shared a Picture from literally a Operation, many pics I can post here from FATA operations where SSG operators are without glasses in a dry muddy environment, now you know a lot about Military Please tell if a solider is taking fire from Terrorist, a gush of wind can literally disturb his focus, damage his eyes, block vision and even put him in compromising position, Bhai my reason for bringing SAS and SEALS are not for PeePee measuring contest, every reputable SF used basic protective gear because it can save a life of a Commando, I rather have my Soldier look shiny COD bots but in the end if they come out alive that's good, rather than look all JAN RAMBO but dead.


I hope so, but their performance/Gear in Operations points otherwise, I hope they are not just focus on increasing the numbers of SSG operatives rather than focus on their training and performance.


Trained is the key word, you can bring the best SSG trainer for me I would still be noob, so would you say the SSG trainer sucks ? Afghans are nothing but hashish smoking soldiers who had no interest in fighting the taliban, they are disgrace to any Standing Army let alone SF.


Compared to other active SF in the world, Turks are Fighting PKK for decades, US in Afghanistan/Iraq, UK as well. Our guys doesn't need to compete with anyone they just have to be alive after operations, that's all that matters. Plus we are indeed seeing the some of the toughest insurgency but wouldn't you expect a Army/SF after years of fighting to learn a thing or two ? we are still losing men with horrible ration to the terrorist, just yesterday or so we lost 3 soldiers for 1-2 Terrorists. That's terrible, now SSG is different and I agree many of their Operations we will never hear about, but those which does becomes highlighted in the media, the news often is the same that SSG clear the building lose 1 or 2 men, SSG killed terrorists but 2 died etc


Of course Intel can't be 100%, but I bet SF does trained themselves with keeping that factor in mind don't they ?


For that they have my respect, but here we need to avoid been Jazbati, cause Jazbaat se Jungen nai jeeti jati. We are losing this battle no matter how much you and others try to pretend, and one big factor of us losing is the poor performance of Army/ Intelligence agency sucks, no will/ horrible or no SOP, we hardly learn anything from past mistakes etc


Bhai if I am not wrong that's a marine, and not even the SF of Marine, Just a Trainy. Our boys are in Operation using that helmet that doesn't even look it fits their heads properly. Honestly if I was in SSG and saw that gear they want me to wear and fight, I'd quit on day 1.

This is Turkish Police SF unit, he is wearing a better equip than SSG, Look at his helmet/its quality/how it covers part of his ears, Look at his vest perfectly camo with his uniform, knee/elbow protections, even his shoulders look better protected. Look at the soldier and than see SSG, well I should stop here because what I will say next will upset you and others.

Why is there such an over-pivot on the looks?

We lose more special operations troops because we don't go into each operation with an overmatch of capability in the air and ground. We simply cannot afford it.
We lose more people because we have them deployed in remote areas with very little available by way of constant air and ground support. US and Western forces have never operated like this. If their chap goes down, there is immediate casevac. If there is rocket/mortar fire on their positions, they can call upon air strikes/heli strikes immediately (in most cases). We don't have these luxuries. When they travel, they are usually in MRAPs where we can barely afford a 50 of those vehicles.

When they go into operations against the local population, their #1 worry is protection of their own force. We consider the same but there is a more significant impact of collateral damage so we have to take greater risks in our operations (which is not to say collateral damage does not occur in our own operations, that is just the reality of military operations).

So these comparisons aren't apples to apples. You could equip an SOF soldier with better body armor and better helmet and rifle with smart optics but he isn't going to survive an IED attack or hit and run on his remote post because he has no immediate recourse to calling in air support etc. These are the realities, constraints of our operating environment. We have posts in remote areas which are recce'd by the TTP/BLA for weeks and then they attack these posts with significant manpower/firepower. There is only so much that can be done unless we have a very robust ability to hit back immediately and overwhelmingly which would act as a deterrent and thus resulting in greater protection for our own troops.

Comparing Turkish equipment is also misleading. As I posted above, just their exports are north of $4B which offset a lot of costs for their own military/paramilitary. On top of that, Turks still benefit from close interaction with NATO and technology transfer. We get none of that. We could not even afford to upgrade the POF manufacturing facilities for G-3 production to take on development of a new rifle (it was an $800M investment).

As such our wishlists should be calibrated with 50 other things needed. We are talking about infantry and SF equipment needing upgrades, artillery, armor etc. all have needs for upgrades and modernization. Where is the money for all of this?

I will end by saying that not one member here would want SSG to operate with sub-optimal gear but we just need to be mindful of the prevailing affordability issues.

 

[CLUMSY]

My brother in Allah. I'm not talking about mission statement and mission requirements.

They way you wear your kit also comes down to doctrine.

I'm just correcting our esteemed colleague claims about Blackhawk and 5.11 being best companies out there and Them using Crye Precision(chuckle) and FAST ACH helmets

Let me make myself clear.


Skills over Gear. Gain Skills, Gear comes along the way.

But if you gonna use leather boots, Blackhawk vests, and use worn out carbines you might need to procure some new stuff.

I wonder if baboo culture is prevalent in the military after seeing the gear

 

[Falcon26]

SSG is among the least equipped special forces. Pakistan simply doesn’t focus on equipping its special forces and instead prefers to think of them as some Bollywood heroes who can get the job done thanks to their superhero mentality.

All the explanations about going ‘light’ etc are simple excuses and guesses and has nothing to do with any official thought process.

 

[blain2]

SSG is among the least equipped special forces. Pakistan simply doesn’t focus on equipping its special forces and instead prefers to think of them as some Bollywood heroes who can get the job done thanks to their superhero mentality.

All the explanations about going ‘light’ etc are simple excuses and guesses and has nothing to do with any official thought process.

Because everything comes down to money. There are countless requisition requests simply sitting there with no light at the end of tunnel. Our problem is no funding, in India their problem is bureaucracy going slow on everything despite them having money (however their acquisition plans are far better positioned than ours imho).

This is simply because in Pakistan's case, the first handicap is, as always, no funding. Perpetually broke is the name of game on our side. Second handicap is foreign willingness to sell to us. This is perhaps less of a problem when it comes to small arms and equipment for personnel but this is also further compounded by lack of funding. We actually got spoiled by CSF/MNNA because our dealings with Americans were more straightforward using military assistance credits etc. With other countries, they want $ upfront. Here things simply get lost between the respective services/JS headquarters and MOD.

One can only imagine what the current account deficit and dwindling forex reserves are doing to our acquisition programs.

 

[blain2]

Thanks for your take. I wonder why there’s no shortage of money when it comes to buying VIP planes and plots for the generals?

I think these are two different things and despite the urge to beat up the military with such claims, we should look into these issues carefully.

Reality is that VIP planes are purchased once in a blue moon and in Pakistan's case, most are second-hand, refurbished. If there are examples of excesses for the military leaders, lets bring them up but generalization is our enemy here.

Second, plots require no money upfront. It is just allocation/reallocation of plots given to MOD by the GoP. See this issue of plots is an interesting one. There are two primary reasons as to why this system exists in Pakistan. Leaving the historical reason aside (i.e. getting trained, disciplined yet retired military personnel to inhabit/settle far flung, undeveloped or under developed areas), the two other reasons are a) when most of our officer corps retires, the vast majority of it has been roving around (ala postings) without settling in one area and building a house for their families becomes quite challenging upon retirement. Aside from a familial home, you could potentially say I don't have a place of residence to my name. This is a unique situation that pertains to military personnel only given the nature of the job. b) The military obviously cannot keep up with the private sector in terms of pay/compensation etc. so land allocation is considered an alternate form of compensation (specially at 2 star and above level ranks).

In the case of b, how many are allocated etc. needs to be regulated but coming back to your point, lack of upfront money leads to these types of practices finding currency in Pakistan.

 

[Goritoes]

What is there such an over-pivot on the looks?

There is no such intentions, I don't want protective gear for SSG so they can look cool like Videos games, I want them to wear better gear so they don't lose their lives. I explained @RescueRanger about the common sense of using Protective Glasses in Operations which are conducted in dry muddy environment.

We lose more special operations troops because we don't go into each operation with an overmatch of capability in the air and ground. We simply cannot afford it.

So are you telling me that SSG can not even afford to equipped a small group (lets say Al-zarrar) ? And what about Operations like the recent CTD station ? we lost 2-3 SSG personnel there, We could argue over the Air support in the mountains or valleys of FATA but SSG has a consistent poor performance in the rescue missions, they lose men in many such operations. Which makes me wonder if they even study their own tactics or Past Operations and where did they go wrong ? cause everybody does.

We lose more people because we have them deployed in remote areas with very little available by way of constant air and ground support. US and Western forces have never operated like this. If their chap goes down, there is immediate casevac. If there is rocket/mortar fire on their positions, they can call upon air strikes/heli strikes immediately (in most cases). We don't have these luxuries. When they travel, they are usually in MRAPs where we can barely afford a 50 of those vehicles.

I am not talking about regular Army, SSG ka yeh Haal hai tu Regular Army tu Allah Hafiz hai, We are still sending our soldiers in death trap Toyota's just to die. Those are such horrible cars that even a injured Soldier can't take cover behind it, we send them with not a single heavy armored vehicle. You know Why American's don't die in Operations, its because they value their soldiers, they know if they lose men in battle or operations there will be a inquiry against the commander and than he will have to go to congress to answer and explain, remember Bengazi ? How many time our Army regular or SSG failed and how many court of inquiries were sat against them? None ZERO. And as for MRAP's we can not afford them where the whole Military budget is going ? why are paying a lot of money to talentless captains and major's ? every Captain aur Major drive 10-15 Lac car and lives in a 240-600 Gaz house in Cantonments, why ? cut that money and put it towards better stuff so at least soldiers have equal chance to fight. If we can not protect our soldiers who are in front line and dying then Talaa laga do Army ko bhai. Our Army to this date rely on numbers thanks to large Pakistani population and poor people who join Army just so they have stable income and lots of incentives, when this how things work than yes I expect more and more soldiers dying.

So these comparisons aren't apples to apples. You could equip an SOF soldier with better body armor and better helmet and rifle with smart optics but he isn't going to survive an IED attack or hit and run on his remote post because he has no immediate recourse to calling in air support etc. These are the realities, constraints of our operating environment. We have posts in remote areas which are recce'd by the TTP/BLA for weeks and then they attack these posts with significant manpower/firepower. There is only so much that can be done unless we have a very robust ability to hit back immediately and overwhelmingly which would act as a deterrent and thus resulting in greater protection for our own troops.

Again, I am talking about SSG operations urban areas, like the recent CTD station one. You are describing the large scale operations done by regular Army.

Comparing Turkish equipment is also misleading. As I posted above, just their exports are north of $4B which offset a lot of costs for their own military/paramilitary. On top of that, Turks still benefit from close interaction with NATO and technology transfer. We get none of that. We could not even afford to upgrade the POF manufacturing facilities for G-3 production to take on development of a new rifle (it was an $800M investment).

So you want to tell me that we can not properly equipped an elite unit of lets say few hundred SSG ? The Turkish soldier in the front, look at the soldiers in same pics who is standing behind him, all of them have same gear. Our SSG, if you dig up Pictures here on PDF you will notice half the time they are not even wearing helmets in Operations, no proper vest and those who are wearing looks so out of the place, like when you give a Fat man sherwani to a skinny guy. Every Picture of SSG after/in/before Operation suggests their poor condition, and I believe that is why they lose men in almost every fight. If our soldiers have better not fancy but proper protective gear, even if they are shot they might survive.

Just look at the red circles, bhai is this how a SF unit suppose to gear up ? even BB gun can blind half of them if shot properly, no knee or elbow pads, no glasses for eye protection even though just look at the surrounding, One heavy wind gush and they will have bunch of mud in their eyes than they won't be able to see let alone focus on enemy fire, yaar Mujh jaise Civilian jis aaj tak real gun nai uthai can think of that common sense but SSG can't? Look at three soldiers sitting in front, and check out the right one, his helmet doesn't even fit his head, if he runs to take cover half of the time he will be holding his helmet. I've seen Police better equipped than SSG, and this is not in some valley or behind enemy lines, this is within a Cant, they have time to plan and gear and yet this is what they came up with. I believe SSG has no will or mood to go into these Operations, they are just forced to go and fight because regular Army just chicken out from almost every Operation these days.

As such our wishlists should be calibrated with 50 other things needed. We are talking about infantry and SF equipment needing upgrades, artillery, armor etc. all have needs for upgrades and modernization. Where is the money for all of this?

I only have one wish list, you all can insult me all you want, make fun of me not having any idea about SSG or SF operations, but my only wish list is that I want SSG to go into operations and they kill every last scumbag, and they all come out alive proud and successful, and ready to take on other Terrorists.

 

[PanzerKiel]

my only wish list is that I want SSG to go into operations and they kill every last scumbag, and they all come out alive proud and successful, and ready to take on other Terrorists.

You wish list is very fine and logical. However, your analysis needs a bit of correction. Like the picture on which you drew red circles, one of the circles is not even an SSG guy.

 

[Goritoes]

You wish list is very fine and logical. However, your analysis needs a bit of correction. Like the picture on which you drew red circles, one of the circles is not even an SSG guy.

Chalen sir baqi tu saare tu SSG hai na, I see this picture and every time I see it, it upsets me so much. As I've mentioned underneath picture that they have no protection in lower body or abdomen area, no knee/elbow pads, no Protective Glasses. I was driving to work one day, so I decided to drive with my windows down (here in US), and I wasn't wearing glasses, there is a bridge under construction, I was driving and because of wind some dirt came to my eyes, I was so disturbed by it that I have to quickly turn on emergency lights and stop at the side of the road, I have to wash my eyes with water and it took my eye 20-30 mins to get normal and even after that, my eye look red as hell. Eye Protection is important, in fact i should say it has to be mandatory just like knee/elbow pads.

 

[PanzerKiel]

Chalen sir baqi tu saare tu SSG hai na, I see this picture and every time I see it, it upsets me so much. As I've mentioned underneath picture that they have no protection in lower body or abdomen area, no knee/elbow pads, no Protective Glasses. I was driving to work one day, so I decided to drive with my windows down (here in US), and I wasn't wearing glasses, there is a bridge under construction, I was driving and because of wind some dirt came to my eyes, I was so disturbed by it that I have to quickly turn on emergency lights and stop at the side of the road, I have to wash my eyes with water and it took my eye 20-30 mins to get normal and even after that, my eye look red as hell. Eye Protection is important, in fact i should say it has to be mandatory just like knee/elbow pads.

Thing is, just like you said, it's in the pictures. Now, it's a very normal thing, even for the regulars, not SSG not to pose with all equipment on, it gives away too much.

Moreover, there are situations which require you to operate light. I mean you look at taliban, vietcong etc... Lightly clothed and equipped soldiers defeating heavily equipped, clothed soldiers backed by first class tech surveillance.

Problem with heavy equipment is that it narrows down your field of vision, field of view, so you can focus towards one side only. It already makes you heavy, slow up move, a more conspic target, especially over difficult terrain. You generally compensate this with first class ground and air surveillance. If it's done, then optimum utilization of equipment and firepower is guaranteed. If not, then you are liable to drop a few items to make yourself lighter, more agile with expanded view around.

A lighter, mobile soldier is always difficult to hit.

Chalen sir baqi tu saare tu SSG hai na, I see this picture and every time I see it, it upsets me so much. As I've mentioned underneath picture that they have no protection in lower body or abdomen area, no knee/elbow pads, no Protective Glasses. I was driving to work one day, so I decided to drive with my windows down (here in US), and I wasn't wearing glasses, there is a bridge under construction, I was driving and because of wind some dirt came to my eyes, I was so disturbed by it that I have to quickly turn on emergency lights and stop at the side of the road, I have to wash my eyes with water and it took my eye 20-30 mins to get normal and even after that, my eye look red as hell. Eye Protection is important, in fact i should say it has to be mandatory just like knee/elbow pads.

I myself once tried elbow and knee pads during active operations, but dropped them for some reasons.

I can show you SSG pictures with protective eye gear as well, able to withstand pellets and grenade fragments.

 

[Goritoes]

Thing is, just like you said, it's in the pictures. Now, it's a very normal thing, even for the regulars, not SSG not to pose with all equipment on, it gives away too much.

Bhai Protective Glasses or knee/elbow pads se kon se nuclear secrets pata chal jane hai ? Come on yaar you and I both knows that these SSG didn't just took their gear off for photoshoot, they weren't even wearing them during the operation.

Moreover, there are situations which require you to operate light. I mean you look at taliban, vietcong etc... Lightly clothed and equipped soldiers defeating heavily equipped, clothed soldiers backed by first class tech surveillance.

But Modern day vests/Armored plates and other gear can save a life, each operation has its own requirements. But why is that we never see SSG in proper gear whether its in urban areas or Mountains ? Those old days are now gone, modern SF's using better gears to protect their soldiers lives, and this is one reality no one can deny. Have you ever see US Police encounter videos ? I saw hundreds, and many time Police are shot from close range and yet they survive only because of their better armor vest.

Problem with heavy equipment is that it narrows down your field of vision, field of view, so you can focus towards one side only. It already makes you heavy, slow up move, a more conspic target, especially over difficult terrain. You generally compensate this with first class ground and air surveillance. If it's done, then optimum utilization of equipment and firepower is guaranteed. If not, then you are liable to drop a few items to make yourself lighter, more agile with expanded view around.

A lighter, mobile soldier is always difficult to hit.

Fair enough but there are instances where you have to gear some heavy gear, specially in hostage situations where you have to bust the door open to face/direct enemy fire, if you send the men you see in picture to breach, Allah reham kare then. Bhai your soldier can move quick with less or light gear but still can't move faster than bullet, no one can outrun a bullet, our soldiers are not hollywood or bollywood actors. Some cases, yes lighter agile soldier can be beneficial but not always.

I myself once tried elbow and knee pads during active operations, but dropped them for some reasons.

I can't help but ask you, what was that " Some Reason " for you not wearing it ? If you were in a mountainous area for Operation than kneeling without pads is not an option, if you did that i would say you are not so smart (sorry for that), because try kneeling on hard rocks or stone, for 5 mins and than you are in no condition to than go in fights. Same goes with elbow, if some soldier has taken up a position to give cover to forwarding soldiers than he must have comfortable elbow pads so he can stay on that position for long without leaving his fellow soldiers without protection, again bhai this all common sense.

I can show you SSG pictures with protective eye gear as well, able to withstand pellets and grenade fragments.

I would surely appreciate that, Plus chalo at least you agree with my point that eye glasses can save them from bad injuries, and give protection against pellets and fragments.

 

[Great Janjua]

I mean you look at taliban, vietcong etc... Lightly clothed and equipped soldiers defeating heavily equipped, clothed soldiers

Your comparing Guerilla fighters against Tier 1 Commandos who despite operating in foreign land gave the insurgents a whooping due to superior gear and tactics whilst SSG is in a pickle over local insurgents does not make our case strong we need dire improvements in both tactics and gear.