Pakistan's Service Rifle (G-3, Type-56) Replacement Competition 2016.

[PanzerKiel]

But Sir, against the insurgents it would be far more deadly i mean the 7N6 earned the name 'poison bullet' as the victim would die slowly in front of their friends which would cause a psychological effect and the 5.45 is the mainstay of the Russian and Ukrainian armies and they both wear protective body armor

There have been many instances in which terrorists once hit on abdomen with a M4 have gone down fighting by taking down ours as well....thts a big price to pay. IF you are into real fight, you would like that who ever you have hit once, should never get up again.

 

[Zarvan]

There have been many instances in which terrorists once hit on abdomen with a M4 have gone down fighting by taking down ours as well....thts a big price to pay. IF you are into real fight, you would like that who ever you have hit once, should never get up again.

I don't know how Turkish gun performed, but by every passing day I am getting pretty sure after this drama of local designs is done. The end result would be we asking Turkey for TOT or some sort of joint collaboration.

 

[Fish]

here is a spanner thrown in. drop both and adopt 6.5 Grendel!

Per Wikipedia, only the Serbian Army is using 6.5 Grendel.

Good luck getting your hands on stockpiles of 6.5 ammo in the heat of battle. 5.56/7.62 NATO and 7.62x39mm, on the other hand, are readily available.

For example, Japanese Army rechambered their Type 99 rifles to shoot .03-06 Springfield round back in WWII due to the scarcity of 7.7mm rounds. Meanwhile, they'd gobs of .03-06 ammo crates, captured from U.S army.

5.56 is a very small round for the ranges that it needs to be utilized at---.

Exactly. At close ranges you need kinetic energy, not velocity. And while the low recoil of the 5.56 does offer superior control while on full auto, soldiers rarely go Rambo!

When they 'do' shoot on full auto, it's usually to lay down suppressive fire, no accuracy needed. You just need to spew a barrage of lead in the general vicinity of the enemy.

I have a question, why haven't we fielded the AK-74s instead of AK-47, it has lighter recoil, flatter trajectory, better wound characteristics and lighter ammo means more capacity for a soldier to carry

Trajectory can be easily compensated for, and the notion of 'better wound characteristics' remains highly debatable. While 5.56/5.45 bullets have a tendency to yaw in soft tissue, it is not 100% guranteed. More often than not, the bullet will connect with a bone and merely incapacitate the target, unless you go directly for the belly.

Regarding velocity, the 5.56 does have an edge with its "theoretical" potential for hydrostatic shock, but the 7.62x39 velocity isn't all that far behind (730 vs. 961 m/s).

Plus, armies usually use 123 grain bullets when it comes to 7.26x39, which are basically twice as heavy as U.S Army's standard issue 62 grain 5.56 ammo.

 

[Path-Finder]

I don't know how Turkish gun performed, but by every passing day I am getting pretty sure after this drama of local designs is done. The end result would be we asking Turkey for TOT or some sort of joint collaboration.

sarkaran gaal samjan di weh, AR nuu pe waad-ke milda peya weh pyar. jinnay weeh private compania ne ooh AR pe banadiah payan weh. SCAR nu huun koi wih munh na laanda!

 

[Path-Finder]

Per Wikipedia, only the Serbian Army is using 6.5 Grendel.

Good luck getting your hands on stockpiles of 6.5 ammo in the heat of battle. 5.56/7.62 NATO and 7.62x39mm, on the other hand, are readily available.

If another country adopts and exports the round for example. Lets say Pakistan does then there will be a market that Pakistan has entered. Even manufacturing the round for commercial export is viable.

Adopting 6.5 Grendel as military round will make the 556 and 762x39 redundant because this one ammo can do the job better than 5.56 as it a flatter shooter round with greater reach.

it has better ballistic coefficient than both 556 and 762x39, better penetration as well.

one round can replace 2 ammo's in use. Surely that is a cost effective solution. Pakistan might be able to convince others to adopt it as well so there will be supply in war times. it will be a scale of economy.

 

[Zarvan]

sarkaran gaal samjan di weh, AR nuu pe waad-ke milda peya weh pyar. jinnay weeh private compania ne ooh AR pe banadiah payan weh. SCAR nu huun koi wih munh na laanda!

Turkey is the way forward.

Kale Kalip different products. Our best bet is either get these with TOT or something similar from other Turkish companies or get involved in joint venture with them.

 

[Path-Finder]

Turkey is the way forward.

Kale Kalip different products. Our best bet is either get these with TOT or something similar from other Turkish companies or get involved in joint venture with them.

sarkaran jedi AR private companian Pakistan which pe banadian peyan weh unnah wich ke kharabi weh? pallain paise hain nhi weh te AR banani keri huun mari gal weh!

 

[Zarvan]

sarkaran jedi AR private companian Pakistan which pe banadian peyan weh unnah wich ke kharabi weh? pallain paise hain nhi weh te AR banani keri huun mari gal weh!

You are referring to GIDS and Cavaliar group Guns. I support them and hope they are really good otherwise they should join in joint venture with Turkish companies like Kale Kalip and Sarlismaz and others. My major issue is the crap being show cased by POF these days.

 

[MastanKhan]

There have been many instances in which terrorists once hit on abdomen with a M4 have gone down fighting by taking down ours as well....thts a big price to pay. IF you are into real fight, you would like that who ever you have hit once, should never get up again.

Hi,

Why do people have a hard time understanding that---?

Turkey is the way forward.

Kale Kalip different products. Our best bet is either get these with TOT or something similar from other Turkish companies or get involved in joint venture with them.

Hi,

Not for small arms---. If it comes to that---it would be our own designed rifle---.

 

[Zarvan]

There have been many instances in which terrorists once hit on abdomen with a M4 have gone down fighting by taking down ours as well....thts a big price to pay. IF you are into real fight, you would like that who ever you have hit once, should never get up again.

Solution. We need assault rifle which is compact, easy to carry, ergonomic. And easy to use but same caliber as G3. The more we delay the more our soldiers will suffer. Pretty much every major power in last one decade has changed or are changing their assault rifle for new ones except for us.

 

[SQ8]

There have been many instances in which terrorists once hit on abdomen with a M4 have gone down fighting by taking down ours as well....thts a big price to pay. IF you are into real fight, you would like that who ever you have hit once, should never get up again.

I was under the impression that the debate between 5.56 and 7.62 was one creates a casualty that slows the rest of the unit down whereas the latter just kills so tactically it was thought sound to create more casualties rather than bodies(which can be left behind)

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

I was under the impression that the debate between 5.56 and 7.62 was one creates a casualty that slows the rest of the unit down whereas the latter just kills so tactically it was thought sound to create more casualties rather than bodies(which can be left behind)

IMO it depends on the adversary and scenario. For example, mass conventional engagements will likely involve forward-deployed medical facilities on both sides to ensure that injuries don't slow the formation. Rather, casualties become more of a problem in small unit engagements where you don't have any forward-deployed medical resources. This is more of a problem for insurgents or rebels who lean on their mobility as an advantage, not more stratified conventional formations that leverage deep logistics chains to forward fresh men, equipment, medical support, etc.

In a conventional fight, I imagine you're more concerned about just incapacitating the enemy by whatever means is most effective, be it injury, fatality, eroding their communications, or out maneuvering them. In this context, 5.56 mm or 7.62 mm shouldn't matter. For Pakistan, the more relevant point is that insurgencies will be a fixed reality in our region, and for that, 7.62 mm is optimal. Hence, it'd be wise to stick to 7.62 mm (?).

 

[Path-Finder]

You are referring to GIDS and Cavaliar group Guns. I support them and hope they are really good otherwise they should join in joint venture with Turkish companies like Kale Kalip and Sarlismaz and others. My major issue is the crap being show cased by POF these days.

aaho mein unna nhi gaal pia karna peya wahn. AR banani koi sokha kaam nhi. baki jinna ne haan ya naa karni weh aeeh unna te weh.

Solution. We need assault rifle which is compact, easy to carry, ergonomic. And easy to use but same caliber as G3. The more we delay the more our soldiers will suffer. Pretty much every major power in last one decade has changed or are changing their assault rifle for new ones except for us.

sarkaran ooh jedi gaal weh ke deshatgardan nu goli jedi wajdi weh uss which koi dammn koi nhi. mein te akhan peyan wahn ke 6.5 Grendel beehter rehsi. 7.62x51 nhi zaroorat sirf hun ginnay chunnay mamlaiin which paisey. 6.5 bharty karne nal 5.56 te 7.62x39 nhi zaroorat mukk jasi.

 

[That Guy]

You are referring to GIDS and Cavaliar group Guns. I support them and hope they are really good otherwise they should join in joint venture with Turkish companies like Kale Kalip and Sarlismaz and others. My major issue is the crap being show cased by POF these days.

Honestly, the best way for Pakistani firms right now is partner up with foreign firms like Turkish, Chinese or Italian, and build up a local tech base.

I feel like GIDS has announced all these projects and it really has nothing to back them. My fear is that this is gonna fail just like Project Azm which ended up being far too expensive and technologically out of reach for Pakistan.

Building up your knowledge base is important, and right now Pakistan is experiencing extreme brain drain.

I know people who are engineers and doctors who've left Pakistan in the past 2 years, simply because they got better offers for their services over seas. Almost all of them don't feel the need to go back to Pakistan, especially now a days.

Fyi, this is not a political statement, this is an economic issue that every party has talked about and acknowledges is a problem. Pakistan needs to stop and reverse the outflow of knowledge. It's losing amazing talent to not just Europe and North America, but the Middle East and China as well.

 

[_NOBODY_]

Honestly, the best way for Pakistani firms right now is partner up with foreign firms like Turkish, Chinese or Italian, and build up a local tech base.

I feel like GIDS has announced all these projects and it really has nothing to back them. My fear is that this is gonna fail just like Project Azm which ended up being far too expensive and technologically out of reach for Pakistan.

Building up your knowledge base is important, and right now Pakistan is experiencing extreme brain drain.

I know people who are engineers and doctors who've left Pakistan in the past 2 years, simply because they got better offers for their services over seas. Almost all of them don't feel the need to go back to Pakistan, especially now a days.

Fyi, this is not a political statement, this is an economic issue that every party has talked about and acknowledges is a problem. Pakistan needs to stop and reverse the outflow of knowledge. It's losing amazing talent to not just Europe and North America, but the Middle East and China as well.

Brain drain will never stop. The only solution is to provide world-class education to our masses. This has never been easier to do as so much world-class education is available to us for free on the internet. The government needs to do more with local ed-tech startups to provide quality education to the masses.