Pakistan's Service Rifle (G-3, Type-56) Replacement Competition 2016.

[Zarvan]

 

[MajorMinor]

So all the noise and still Pakistan Army can't have a gun of its own make?

 

[Path-Finder]

a suggestion changing of calibre from 7.62 to 5.56

here is a spanner thrown in. drop both and adopt 6.5 Grendel!

 

[MastanKhan]

i recently had a one on one meeting with Salman on this. It was of course a serious meeting whereby a decision had to be taken.

Salman's designs are good, workable, feasible considering our present tooling available in POF which is already geared towards 7.62. Right now, issue under discussion is the requirement of sufficient space and rails for installation for all kinds of optics which a soldier may be required to install. Lets leave it there, its still under discussion. Moreover, a suggestion changing of calibre from 7.62 to 5.56 for the whole army has also popped up. This is easier said than done since it would require years to change over...equipment, doctrine, scales of ammunition etc....

Hi,

" If it is not broken---don't fix it ".

The rifle must stay within the 7.62 category---.

5.56 is a very small round for the ranges that it needs to be utilized at---.

 

[MastanKhan]

i recently had a one on one meeting with Salman on this. It was of course a serious meeting whereby a decision had to be taken.

Salman's designs are good, workable, feasible considering our present tooling available in POF which is already geared towards 7.62. Right now, issue under discussion is the requirement of sufficient space and rails for installation for all kinds of optics which a soldier may be required to install. Lets leave it there, its still under discussion. Moreover, a suggestion changing of calibre from 7.62 to 5.56 for the whole army has also popped up. This is easier said than done since it would require years to change over...equipment, doctrine, scales of ammunition etc....

Hi,

What were your thoughts on it---?

 

[PanzerKiel]

Hi,

What were your thoughts on it---?

I wasnt for it straightaway. Change in caliber means big changes in alot of things....and the way our procurement chain works, it would have been decades before we inducted anything. G3 is an example, despite going through multiple trials over several years, we are still at square one.
There were many questions for which i wasnt able to get any satisfactory answer. Issue is therefore still in limbo.

 

[MastanKhan]

I wasnt for it straightaway. Change in caliber means big changes in alot of things....and the way our procurement chain works, it would have been decades before we inducted anything. G3 is an example, despite going through multiple trials over several years, we are still at square one.
There were many questions for which i wasnt able to get any satisfactory answer. Issue is therefore still in limbo.

Hi,

The first judgement calls are more often the real ones---.

Afterwards we convince ourselves to justify what is being proposed----. That is what my experience is---.

Changes in caliber mean changes in battle tactics---& I don't think that the pak military is changing its tactics---.

I personally would be more favorable to upgrades and modification to the current G3---.

For pak military---it does not seem worth it to change the rifle.

 

[sparten]

I wasnt for it straightaway. Change in caliber means big changes in alot of things....and the way our procurement chain works, it would have been decades before we inducted anything. G3 is an example, despite going through multiple trials over several years, we are still at square one.
There were many questions for which i wasnt able to get any satisfactory answer. Issue is therefore still in limbo.

It would be monumentally STUPID to switch over to 5.56mm in an era of widespread use of bodyarmour.

 

[PanzerKiel]

It would be monumentally STUPID to switch over to 5.56mm in an era of widespread use of bodyarmour.

POF is of course an organization which values money inflows. We, on the other hand, have to take in view tactical, doctrinal aspects of enemy and ourselves. They all don't overlap everytime. We all have to live with all this.

 

[MastanKhan]

POF is of course an organization which values money inflows. We, on the other hand, have to take in view tactical, doctrinal aspects of enemy and ourselves. They all don't overlap everytime. We all have to live with all this.

Hi,

Thank you---. You have explained the conflict of interest between the seller & the end user in 3 lines---.

The end user glorifies the show & pomp---the newness of the equipment---but the end user wants to stay with the old---reliable---time tested utility---.

More power to you for sticking to your 'guns'.

 

[WarKa DaNG]

I have a question, why haven't we fielded the AK-74s instead of AK-47, it has lighter recoil, flatter trajectory, better wound characteristics and lighter ammo means more capacity for a soldier to carry

 

[PanzerKiel]

I have a question, why haven't we fielded the AK-74s instead of AK-47, it has lighter recoil, flatter trajectory, better wound characteristics and lighter ammo means more capacity for a soldier to carry

Caliber is 5.45. Enough to wound only. AK-47 itself is also easier to handle. The lighter and smaller 5.45 cartridge tends to yaw and fragment when it hits the body, whereas the 7.62 variant punches straight holes, sometime through light body armor as well. Ammo for AK-47 is also easier to find, gun replacement parts easier to find as well.
SSG though, due to their diverse role and needs, have been using AK-74 with UBGL alot.

 

[PakFactor]

Caliber is 5.45. Enough to wound only. AK-47 itself is also easier to handle. The lighter and smaller 5.45 cartridge tends to yaw and fragment when it hits the body, whereas the 7.62 variant punches straight holes, sometime through light body armor as well. Ammo for AK-47 is also easier to find, gun replacement parts easier to find as well.

That's why they call AK-47 the King of Rifles.

 

[sparten]

POF is of course an organization which values money inflows. We, on the other hand, have to take in view tactical, doctrinal aspects of enemy and ourselves. They all don't overlap everytime. We all have to live with all this.

Yes, I know they already make 5.56mm ammo. Great, sell it to foreigners. Get some of that sweet foreign exchange. Don't screw our infantrymen up.

7.62NATO is easy to turn into an AP round that defeats all modern body armour.5.56mm "AP" means...it might tickle the dude.

 

[WarKa DaNG]

Caliber is 5.45. Enough to wound only. AK-47 itself is also easier to handle. The lighter and smaller 5.45 cartridge tends to yaw and fragment when it hits the body, whereas the 7.62 variant punches straight holes, sometime through light body armor as well. Ammo for AK-47 is also easier to find, gun replacement parts easier to find as well.
SSG though, due to their diverse role and needs, have been using AK-74 with UBGL alot.

But Sir, against the insurgents it would be far more deadly i mean the 7N6 earned the name 'poison bullet' as the victim would die slowly in front of their friends which would cause a psychological effect and the 5.45 is the mainstay of the Russian and Ukrainian armies and they both wear protective body armor