Pakistan's Service Rifle (G-3, Type-56) Replacement Competition 2016.

[Path-Finder]

With same company providing guns for both x39 and x51 there will be parts that are same in both. No a lot of similarity because chances of a multi-caliber gun are low as you mentioned. But still same company, similarity in parts and manufacturing process and with the numbers of gun we are looking to procure cost will come down compared to riffles from 2 different companies where not only parts and manufacturing process will be different but order will be cut into ... lets say half.

So what I was saying ( and it is just my opinion ) is that if CZ is done deal in x39 it makes it the front runner in x51 too. Doesn't mean SCAR is out of the game but Army would surely want to deal with SCAR first. Only way it is out of the competition for x51 is if it has performed very bad or didn't perform well in extreme cold or desert (or something like that).

SCAR was the best rifle in Trials

Which CZ model are you proposing for 7.62 x 51mm option? Was it part of the trials?

I understand what you and others are saying and fully agree with it, however to break it all down;

PA seem to be looking for both x39 and x51 guns.

1. Though the requirement may merge at some later point it is HIGHLY UNLIKELY to happen and it seems certain that we will buy both x39 and x51, meaning two guns
2. A multi-caliber gun could have been an option but PA never look aggressive about pursuing that option, not so far at least.
3. Both guns from one source makes a lot of sense but what source? CZ did showed a gun chambered for 7.62x51mm at IDEAS 2016 to make things interesting.

Now will the selection of CZ 807 in 7.62x39mm category be a reason enough to convince the PA top brass to consider the same supplier and a similar gun for there 7.62x51mm remains to be seen but as of now it is all guess work since officially CZ have ONLY been selected thus far and it is for 7.62x39mm.


I think you meant to say that "army would surely want to deal with CZ first"

And no, the CZ did excellent in the field trials and was given approval nod ALONG WITH FN SCAR.

@TheOccupiedKashmir has spoken to a CZ rep and he posted a pic of a target using CZ 807 chambered in x51from CZ booth at IDEAS 2016 which has really made our Hazrat very very cross. Hence my argument for uno rifle dos calibre's

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/paki...competition-2016.426049/page-212#post-9119304

unfortunately as Hazrat will now go on a nut for SCAR...... CZ has NOT officially released any info on x51 chambering so only this is what we have at hand.

 

[Arsalan]

SCAR was the best rifle in Trials


@TheOccupiedKashmir has spoken to a CZ rep and he posted a pic of a target using CZ 807 chambered in x51from CZ booth at IDEAS 2016 which has really made our Hazrat very very cross. Hence my argument for uno rifle dos calibre's

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/paki...competition-2016.426049/page-212#post-9119304

True. I have seen this chart before as well but was not aware that this have been shared here and thus though better than mentioning this.

unfortunately as Hazrat will now go on a nut for SCAR...... CZ has NOT officially released any info on x51 chambering so only this is what we have at hand.

This is the thing!!
CZ was in trials and came with there 7.62x39mm (which got selected). The 7.62x51mm was not part of the whole process as far as i know but still was put through its paces and all aspects checked and evaluated. Now will PA prefer this because they are already done with a x39 version from same supplier do makes sense but still remains a speculation. With CZ choosing not to say much about this x51 either, all we can do is:

1. Shut up and wait for something to actually happen and be confirmed (officially or reliably , not via those fking fb warriors)
2. Keep messing around and stating our wishes as FACTs backed by those same fking fb warriors!

 

[Path-Finder]

True. I have seen this chart before as well but was not aware that this have been shared here and thus though better than mentioning this.


This is the thing!!
CZ was in trials and came with there 7.62x39mm (which got selected). The 7.62x51mm was not part of the whole process as far as i know but still was put through its paces and all aspects checked and evaluated. Now will PA prefer this because they are already done with a x39 version from same supplier do makes sense but still remains a speculation. With CZ choosing not to say much about this x51 either, all we can do is:

1. Shut up and wait for something to actually happen and be confirmed (officially or reliably , not via those fking fb warriors)
2. Keep messing around and stating our wishes as FACTs backed by those same fking fb warriors!

May I suggest you avoid being in the SCAR haters group . That is the thing we have been debating for some time and until there is some form of official clarification from the manufacturers and PA the great rifle debate keeps on marching.

 

[Arsalan]

May I suggest you avoid being in the SCAR haters group . That is the thing we have been debating for some time and until there is some form of official clarification from the manufacturers and PA the great rifle debate keeps on marching.

ou know the funny thing is the SCAR lovers (Zarvan) takes me as SCAR hater and the SCAR haters ask me to keep away from the haters group citing me as a SCAR supporter.

However the ground fact is:
SCAR and CZ BERN were selected in trials as the first choice and then there was another gun mentioned as a second choice, that, is a deal cannot be made with these first two options only then the procurement can think about negotiating with the third company. So both FN SCAR and CZ BERN are excellent platforms and both meet our requirement so no one have advantage over the other (since all those pros and cons have been evaluated by the professionals and only then they were both given the ok). Also everything else i said above is based on some facts, some discussion and some connecting the dots. I will AGAIN strongly suggest we shut up and let things play out and some official statement settle the issue once and for all.

 

[Kompromat]

CZ actually failed both trials, it exploded into pieces during 10k round mag dump test. AK-103 also failed. SCAR is on top on technical trials.

CZ has won technical comparison over SCAR in 7,62x51. That is why FN is stagnant.

 

[Solomon2]

CZ actually failed both trials, it exploded into pieces during 10k round mag dump test. AK-103 also failed. SCAR is on top on technical trials.

Pictures?

 

[Kompromat]

SCAR is the best option and its not as expensive when mass produced. If POF starts selling 5.56 Semi ones in the civilian market, they will make their money back.

@Horus I will still love to hear YOUR views in this despite what @Zarvan said. Whatever your views on this are. One reason we can figure out is that they failed in French deal, that will be playing on minds of all parties involved but that failure was mainly related to caliber! So why this pragmatic approach? Your views?

Army doesn't issue pictures of these trials.

Pictures?

 

[Solomon2]

Army doesn't issue pictures of these trials.

Why would they be classified? And doesn't the Army have to have something to show the legislature why its money should go into this and not that?

 

[Gryphon]

CZ is chambered in 7.62x39, therefore a replacement for the Type-56 and AKs. SCAR H is chambered in 7.62x51 and it'll replace the G-3. The competition is between the SCAR H and ARX-200.

Unfortunately, all those comments of yours on this thread are nothing more than personal wishes. I have myself confirmed from a CZ official that CZ 807 (7.62x51mm) was tested by PA. And, I have named the official.

You were the one who was claiming AK-103 outperformed CZ 807 by a wide margin in x39 category. You dismissed the interview of CZ official Martin Šanda as 'media speculation'.

http://www.armadninoviny.cz/utocna-puska-cz-bren-2-novy-pristup-nove-mysleni.html

 

[Kompromat]

Both rifles exploded in tests, both are out of the tender, AK-103 was deemed to be more reliable in other metrics but Russians refused to allow license production. CZ tried to sell Brens to FC Balochistan, they sent a referral to Pindi which was rejected. That means 7.62x39 category is an open field while SCAR-H and ARX-200 are shortlisted for 7.62x51 category, pending technology transfer, production, cost negotiations. It does not matter what CZ rep has to say, they are just salesmen trying to sell their stuff.

Unfortunately, all those comments of yours on this thread are nothing more than personal wishes. I have myself confirmed from a CZ official that CZ 807 (7.62x51mm) was tested by PA. And, I have named the official.

You were the one who was claiming AK-103 outperformed CZ 807 by a wide margin in x39 category. You dismissed the interview of CZ official Martin Šanda as 'media speculation'.

http://www.armadninoviny.cz/utocna-puska-cz-bren-2-novy-pristup-nove-mysleni.html

You should just mind your own business.

Why would they be classified? And doesn't the Army have to have something to show the legislature why its money should go into this and not that?

 

[Zarvan]

Unfortunately, all those comments of yours on this thread are nothing more than personal wishes. I have myself confirmed from a CZ official that CZ 807 (7.62x51mm) was tested by PA. And, I have named the official.

You were the one who was claiming AK-103 outperformed CZ 807 by a wide margin in x39 category. You dismissed the interview of CZ official Martin Šanda as 'media speculation'.

http://www.armadninoviny.cz/utocna-puska-cz-bren-2-novy-pristup-nove-mysleni.html

Janab he has lot more sources than you he doesn't comment here because he knows the fact and just enjoys the talks going on here. Those who have been this on forum for really long time challenging Mr @Horus doesn't end well I have tried myself and he proved to be right every time some time I really feel that he works for some agency or at least working for establishment in some position. So I would only suggest you to trust Mr @Horus on things he is telling you

@Path-Finder

SCAR is the best option and its not as expensive when mass produced. If POF starts selling 5.56 Semi ones in the civilian market, they will make their money back.



Army doesn't issue pictures of these trials.

They should also sell 7.62 X 51 in fact they should military grade version I would love to buy hundreds of them

 

[Kompromat]

500 SCAR-L for SSW replacing FN-2000. x51 tender is for 800,000 rifles with full tot and subsequent export rights after the local Military and LEA demands have been satisfied. SBR 7.62x39 whichever one is selected will also replace the MP-5s. Another tender upcoming is the replacement of 7.62x51 machine guns and STD issue side arm. I think Army is going to issue sidearms to soldiers as well in the future.

Janab he has lot more sources than you he doesn't comment here because he knows the fact and just enjoys the talks going on here. Those who have been this on forum for really long time challenging Mr @Horus doesn't end well I have tried myself and he proved to be right every time some time I really feel that he works for some agency or at least working for establishment in some position. So I would only suggest you to trust Mr @Horus on things he is telling you

@Path-Finder


They should also sell 7.62 X 51 in fact they should military grade version I would love to buy hundreds of them

 

[Army research]

500 SCAR-L for SSW replacing FN-2000. x51 tender is for 800,000 rifles with full tot and subsequent export rights after the local Military and LEA demands have been satisfied. SBR 7.62x39 whichever one is selected will also replace the MP-5s. Another tender upcoming is the replacement of 7.62x51 machine guns and STD issue side arm. I think Army is going to issue sidearms to soldiers as well in the future.

Approximate time till induction begins of whatever is selected ? 1-2 years? 3?

 

[Zarvan]

Approximate time till induction begins of whatever is selected ? 1-2 years? 3?

Few orders have been already placed like the ones Horus mentioned

 

[Kompromat]

Im hearing a POF is going to get new tooling and if the tender is approved this year, it will begin production next year and it might take a decade to fulfill the tender requirements.

Approximate time till induction begins of whatever is selected ? 1-2 years? 3?