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Pakistan's Raiwind gathering fuels extremism: experts

you are not listening to me , they take holidays on their own, but they take full salaries of 6 months or 4 months, alternate teacher can not be made available as on the papers thos teachers are taking classes while actually they are on tabligh some where elso....meray kehne ka matlab ye he k ye log dandi martay hain, aur koi inhe kuch nahi keh sakta kyun k ye hazraat tabligh kar rahe hote hain....My physics teacher was absent for 7 months in matric and i had to do tuition to study physics......leaving your duty of teaching for months without notification and getting full salaray, which is not allowed by governament, is haraam, that rizq is not halal for you....
Than government has to take action on that than if they are doing that they are doing wrong and those holidays which your contractor haven't allowed is haram
 
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This Tableeghi Ijtima is the second biggest gatherings on earth after Hajj. I've been to this Ijtima once and I'd endorse Oscar's point of view up to some extent. There are bad and good, worse and better every where, one should not paint all of them with the same brush i.e. extremism or all bad or all worse just like this ignorant author did in his analysis.

In my personal POV (not a good practising Muslim myself though) the majority are bad they've some screwed up ideology about Islam and the way they're spreading it. They'd take a word from Fazayle-Amal (a book the tableeghi usually read) above the books of Bukhari, Muslim etc... and if you state a practice endorsed by Prophet Muhammad PBUH and provides proofs from Hadiths, they'd say you're following a practice endors by some other sect and our Imam didn't perform such and such practices. Anyway the point here is; the lack of knowledge doesn't make one an extremist... extremism is a virus brewed up in blood which results in a personality trait. It then depends which rout one adopts and go to the lengths of extremes... if that is the rout of Islam, you end up being called an Islamic extremist, if you take the rout of liberalism, secularism etc then you're a liberal extremist, a liberal fascist and what not.
 
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This Tableeghi Ijtima is the second biggest gatherings on earth after Hajj. I've been to this Ijtima once and I'd endorse Oscar's point of view up to some extent. There are bad and good, worse and better every where, one should not paint all of them with the same brush i.e. extremism or all bad or all worse just like this ignorant author did in his analysis.

In my personal POV (not a good practising Muslim myself though) the majority are bad they've some screwed up ideology about Islam and the way they're spreading it. They'd take a word from Fazayle-Amal (a book the tableeghi usually read) above the books of Bukhari, Muslim etc... and if you state a practice endorsed by Prophet Muhammad PBUH and provides proofs from Hadiths, they'd say you're following a practice endors by some other sect and our Imam didn't perform such and such practices. Anyway the point here is; the lack of knowledge doesn't make one an extremist... extremism is a virus brewed up in blood which results in a personality trait. It then depends which rout one adopts and go to the lengths of extremes... if that is the rout of Islam, you end up being called an Islamic extremist, if you take the rout of liberalism, secularism etc then you're a liberal extremist, a liberal fascist and what not.
Sir this problem is with all the Hanafis if you tell them Hadees they start telling about what Imam Abu Hanifa has said but he also said if you get get a authentic Hadees and my opinion is not according to it that follow Hadees and throw my opinion on the wall and that is said by all Imams
 
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Dear correct yourself deobandis are not wahabis. In Pakistan ahle-hadith are related to wahabis/salafis. And i think by moderate sunnis you mean ahle-e-sunnat/bareilvis?

I know deobandis are not wahabis but they are the majority who participate and organise the jalsa. yes Ahle-e-sunnat are mostly moderate.
 
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As Pashtuns are mostly deobandis so tablighi movement is extremely popular in our areas. I have myself went on many "sehroza" and an ijtima. They are harmless in the sense that they have nothing to do with militancy and jihad (qitaal), it is reformation movement. But there is no doubt that they are intentionally or un-intentionally spreading and promoting bigotry, narrow-mindedness and extremism.

My dear brother in Islam, all these words including bigotry, narrow-mindedness and extremism are general terminologies having no specific universal definition. Every group of people uses these words according to their implications and limitation. For a Momin the meaning of these words will be according to the circle of limitations set by ALLAH and his Rasool (saw). I am going to try to put the meanings of these words as per Islamic suggestions in the brackets:


Bigotry – Biased approach (against the so-called unrealistic logics used to underestimate the Islamic rulings and teachings.)

Narrow Mindedness – Limited approach of thinking (against the limits of thinking set by ALLAH and his Rasool (saw) for the believers)

Extremism – Crossing the limitations of the boundaries (set by ALLAH and his Rasool sallauhualaihi wasallam)

Hence, referring to the above definitions, even your approach may be bigotry, narrow mindedness and extremism for Tablighis who have their definition tailored according the supposed rules and laws implicated by ALLAH and his Rasool (saw)..

Anyways, in your paragraph you have referred Jihaad to the Qitaal in brackets which is a narrow approach of referring the word. The terminology of the Jihaad in Islam refers to struggling for the sake of establishment of Deen in every department of lives. The Qital is the final approach of Jihad in which your opponent starts attacking you to stop your invitation towards the Deen of ALLAH. And this will be applicable soon when ALLAH through the mutual consultation of our elders imposes Qitaal on the general believers. Well… Leave this; it will lead towards another sort of Discussion.

In our area if some one has become "loafar" or has started drugs or is out of control then he is send to tabligh in the hope that he would get better, and when that person returns after "chila" or "chaar maheenay" then he is definately changed.

Alhumdulillah, I have only witnessed this in the path of ALLAH myself. The most difficult of the task in the world is changing people’s heart which is easily witness in the environment of Tabligh.



But i have observed that studious students have stopped taking interest in study and school/college after joining tabligh....it is fact that in their bayans tablighi hazrat and masharan tells people "parrhai" (study) are wordly things and are of no use in akhirat. One of mu tablighi class fellow left MBBS in final year for tabligh and madrassa. when i met him then i asked him whether buzargan of tabligh asked you to continue MBBS, he said that at first he was asked to cotinue MBBS along with tabligh, but when he left it then he was hugged, and congratulated for great qurbani for islam. That is tablighis become useless in their version of wordly matters and are concerned with akhirat.


There three ways of judging things:

i) The judgment based on the self-judgment of group who is to be judged.
ii) The judgment based on the judgment of group other than the group to be judged.
iii) The personal judgment based on self-approach of considering things.

Judgment number (iii) or (ii) many a times becomes biased if judgment (i) is ignored. Same applies to your approach of judging the Jamat.

The perspective of Jamat: The basic approach of Jamat is to set priorities based on priorities set by Rasoolulllah (Sallauhu alaihiwa’aalihi wasallam).

The first priority is to get your work done or problems solved (any types of worldly or eternal affairs) directly by referring to ALLAH (by getting Mutawajjuh towards ALLAH alone and putting you TRUST upon HIM considering the fact that everything other than ALLAH including our tarteeb and asbaab are Makhlooq of ALLAH and they are incapable of providing and benefit or harm to us)…

The 2nd priority is the way of referring to ALLAH through the aimaal of Holy Prophet (Sallauhu alaihi wasallam) … (becoming a full time Daai, certain duas recited by Prophet at certain occasions, taking help through Salah as ordered by Quran and adopt the ways of Holy Prophet (saw) in certain conditions like utilizing Honey in illness etc. etc.)

The last and final of all is to adopt the wordly asbaab and the tarteeb of asbab with the yaqeen in our hearts that these asbab are just “AAZMAISH” before ALLAH and nothing else. They are created by ALLAH to test our Yaqeen that whether by adopting them is it also inclining towards them or the Yaqeen in our Heart only belongs to ALLAH alone. It is up to ALLAH whether, HE solves our issue through ASBAB or without them. Both of the cases are found in the incidents of Prophets and Sahabah. If ALLAH removes Asbab then there would be no difference between Human and Angel with respect to the nature of Imaan.

The first and second priority is what is demanded by ALLAH and his Rasool (saw) and the criterion of salvation is based upon them. The 1st and 2nd priorities are Maqaasids and 3rd is the mere need.

POINTS TO BE CONSIDERED:

1. Jamat says that one can sacrifice their needs (zarurat) against the Maqsad. For e.g. Sadqah lowers down the burden of calamities on one’s life. In case of man who has a sick child, he may sacrifice his goat and distribute it among poors as Sadqah with Niyah to please ALLAH and hope that in return ALLAH will cure his child. This is the level of Maqsad. But if his goat is ill, he can not sacrifice his child and distribute his meat to eagle and crows with the Niyah to cure his goat. This is a difference of Maqsad and Zarurat. Sacrificing needs doesn’t mean leaving Asbab. But prioritizing the 1st and 2nd priorities over them to the extent that not even a bit of compromise to be made.

2. Allah’s promise is only with 1st and 2nd priority and they are the only criteria of judgment. There is no promise of ALLAH with 3rd priority. It is only the test for the believers.
Nowhere have we been taught that ALLAH is promising:
• Do your Tijaarat, I will give you profits.
• Do the cultivation, I will give you crops.
• Do your treatment, I will give you Shifa.
There is no such promise made by ALLAH. If there was the case, everyone would have been successful in Tijarat, cultivation, or medical treatment etc.
Allah’s promise is only with fulfillment of his Ehkamat through the ways of Holy Prophet (Sallauhu alaihi wasallam).
This doesn’t mean Jamat imposes the members to leave the tarteeb but to Moakkhar (delay) it before 1st and 2nd priority with the belief that it is the test to be taken not something to have Yaqeen in our hearts for.
The major reason of downfall of Ummat is the prioritizing Asbab over the Aimal of the Prophet.

3. The tarteeb of asbaab for worldly needs and affairs are set, organized and planned by ALLAH (swt) but the success and failure through them are only based on whether we prioritize the Ehkamat of Allah through the ways of the Holy Prophet over them or not. If we do prioritize then, the success is the promise of ALLAH. If we don’t then the tarteeb remains the same but failure are the results in Maqaasid.

Now lets move towards Ilm:

The definition of ILM as stated by Jamat is the research and answers of the Questions asked in Grave:

i) Who is your Rabb (To get the ILIM which helps you recognize your Ilaah as HE has the right to be recognized)
ii) Who is your Nabi (To get the ILM which helps you recognize the traditions and ways of Prophet (saw))
iii) What’s your Deen (To get the IlM which makes you recognize the rulings of Shariyah required to lead a life save from Haram acts)

A part from the above points, its not ILM, it’s the Fanoon of Duniyah. However, if the Fanoon of Dunia is used to assist the Maqaasid of Deen (like power technology for electricity, cars for conveyance purpose etc.), ALLAH will surely give you reward. But this doesn’t come under the question of ALLAH asked on the Day of Judgment:

APNAY ILM PER KITNA AMAL KIA?

So the fanon of Dunia are not the criteria of salvation on the Day of Judgment.


MY COMMENTS:
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Tablighi Hazaraat doesn’t impose you to leave the tarteeb and asbab but just ask you to give them the last priority. By making Akhirah your first priority, ALLAH takes care of your every worldly affair this is the concept imposed by Tablighi Jamat as directed in Quran. But ALLAH never takes care of the affairs of Akhirah if you give asbaab and tarteeb of Asbab in this world your first priority. It is a rule that people prioritizing the world have seemed to ignore the Akhiah in any way whatsoever.

Your friend leaving MBBA (tarteeb of Asbab and Fanoon) to become an AALIM (bigger cause) is not something to be criticized. It’s his personal suggestion and ALLAH let him choose his tarteeb of life that has been already decided in Lohe-Mehfooz and no doubt it’s an afzal tarteeb. This example doesn’t mean that Hazraat of Tabligh wants every doctor to leave their professions, if it were the case, you’d not find the department of medical and dispensary in Raiwind Markaz.

To conclude it I’d end up with the verse:

Say: If your fathers, your sons, your brothers, your wives, your kindred, the wealth that you have gained, the commerce in which you fear a decline, and the dwellings in which you delight … are dearer to you than Allâh and His Messenger, and striving hard in Allah’s cause, then wait until Allâh brings about His Decision (torment). And Allâh guides not the people who are Al-Fâsiqûn (the rebellious, disobedient to Allâh). (9:54)

Many governament servants forexample teachers take vocations for several months for tabligh but continue to take salary in their absentie. In matric our physics teacher (of governament school in our village) went to tabligh for 6 months and there was no teacher for us during this whole time. Tablighi hazrat encourage teachers to participate in their tabligh for months, they even tell us doctors that doctory is wordly thing while tabligh is utmost duty of every muslim. They are corrupting minds towards bigotry.

If they take official permission from their superiors and they are granted paid leaves than there is no harm in it. But if anyone does so by tricking then it’s a sin. It’s the responsibility of the superior to manage the alternative in case the person is assigned leaves for Tabligh.

In my opinion there is tabligh in islam but "tablighi tarteeb" of this tablighi jamaat is "bidat" in islam. There is no concept of "shab-e-e-juma" ,"sehroza", "ashra", "chilla" etc and they own daily 5 times tarteeb in addition to 5 times to prayer, the thing is they consider it is sort of compulsory tarteeb and knocks every body door to participate in it. Some how they use only their book "fazail-e-aamal" for tabligh, which is full of false and 'zaeef" hadith.
Allah gives the right to HIS Ummah to design their affairs through Shoora (Mutual consultation) which is the direction of Qur’an. We are supposed to follow elders on their designed tarteeb based on Shurah as ordered us to follow the authorities among us. (4:59)… Whatever tarteeb is designed in Tabligh is somehow based on Minhaaj of Sahabah and mutual consultation. It same as a tareeb and syllabus designed to become a scholar in Madinah University. The tarteeb of Qaidah to learn Qur’an is another example. So this is the tarteeb to learn Imaan and Aimaal designed through Shuraah.

As far as Fadhail-e-Aamal is concerned, it is the book of Fadhaile. There is no harm in taking Zaeef Ahadith in Virtues. It is to build high gumaan with ALLAH. Whatever good gumaan you make from ALLAH even on the basis of false information, ALLAH will surely make it true. Like if you hope ALLAH to give you a palace in Jannah for offering 12 Rikaats of Sunnat-e-Moaaqqidah as promised in Hadith. Do you think if on the day of Judgment you demand ALLAH those places in return, ALLAH will say go away you only believed in Zaeef Hadith? The fact that people make Gumaan with treasures of ALLAH is what ALLAH loves. ALLAH will surely fulfill his gumaah as promised in another Hadith saying that ALLAH will fulfill the demand of the believers.

They circulate and propagate strange tales of miracles that happen during tabligh among themselves. I think for such reasons tablighi jamaat is banned in saudia arabia.
Circulating such incidents are not the Tarteeb of Tablighi elders. They are among the immature followers. For your kind information, tablighi jamat is doing well in Saudia Arabia.
 
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This Tableeghi Ijtima is the second biggest gatherings on earth after Hajj. I've been to this Ijtima once and I'd endorse Oscar's point of view up to some extent. There are bad and good, worse and better every where, one should not paint all of them with the same brush i.e. extremism or all bad or all worse just like this ignorant author did in his analysis.

In my personal POV (not a good practising Muslim myself though) the majority are bad they've some screwed up ideology about Islam and the way they're spreading it. They'd take a word from Fazayle-Amal (a book the tableeghi usually read) above the books of Bukhari, Muslim etc... and if you state a practice endorsed by Prophet Muhammad PBUH and provides proofs from Hadiths, they'd say you're following a practice endors by some other sect and our Imam didn't perform such and such practices. Anyway the point here is; the lack of knowledge doesn't make one an extremist... extremism is a virus brewed up in blood which results in a personality trait. It then depends which rout one adopts and go to the lengths of extremes... if that is the rout of Islam, you end up being called an Islamic extremist, if you take the rout of liberalism, secularism etc then you're a liberal extremist, a liberal fascist and what not.

sir you are totally wrong earths largest ijtima was 10th Moharram shahadat and 20th safar chehllum of IMAM HUSSAIN A.S at KARBALA MOULA IRAQ where 50 lakhs peoples gather every year after the end of saddam's era
 
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These so called deserve slaps on their faces. They know nothing about Islam and Tablighi Jamaat. They are one of the peaceful people one will ever see.
 
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Who is this fcking sadiqui? He is simply bullshyting. I was reguler tablighi during my student life. Its true that their book fazail e amaal has weak content but there is nothing wrong with their motives , they are most peaceful religous folk out there..they do "amar bil maroof" but avoid "nahi unal munkir" . We can argue about their methodology but there is spirtual freshness one gets when he spends some time in tabligh...they never preach jihad at all..they are deobandis and there is certain religous bigotry and narrow-mindedness in them which is common in all deobandis...as most of the deobandis in pakistan are pakhtuns and talibans are deobands and talibans respects tabligh...the article might be pointing towards this link...if that is the case than JUI-F and JUI-S are more close to talibans, infact they are their mentors.
 
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because of the civilian governments failures and military's lack of trust worthiness more and more Pakistanis are turning to religion. am i right ?
 
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