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Pakistan's Raiwind gathering fuels extremism: experts

Let me have a view as well then. "Uyayani" Muslims are a minority in Pakistan; how are they suddenly representing the majority all of a sudden?

This group has the largest following in Pakistan:


Judge for yourself; is it really them "Uyayani's" that is 'everything wrong with Muslims in Pakistan' - or these guys?

These guys are misguided as well, but when it comes to threatening the very foundations of society in Pakistan.. are a meager issue. Moreover, the problem lies not with the Saints.. rather with their people exploiting them.. much as the Uyayani are busy with the two mosques.
 
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Your ticking time bomb has been happening in Pakistan since 1960's without a single unpleasent word uttered by the organisers/scholors who make speaches...
Or without a single unpleasent event happening in the 50 year history of the 'ijtima'.
The same event takes place at nizamuddin india,near Delhi since 1920s,and nobody in india had a problem with them over the last 90 years.
Same about Bangladesh,has been an annual event since 1960s without any problem..
If you want to make absurd claimsat least back your claims with examples,or logic...
On what basis you are saying the event 'time bomb'?

Yep just like the jihad preaching has been happening since 1970's until 2000 until it exploded much more lethally than any nuke on earth. Logic fail!

The trend towards religious intolerance was started by ZA Bhutto when he inflamed the Ahmedi issue for temporary political gains, but you are correct that it went from bad to worse during the Zia era. Subsequent governments used various aspects of these divisions for short term gains for themselves and long term losses for the nation.

Bhutto with his arrogance and lack of leadership qualities completely failed the country by breaking it into two. Then made a last resort attempt on his career by launching Ummah fervor with full vigor. It was really a fail state making its last stand - things then went completely downhill. The Pakistan and ideology of Jinnah ceased to exist post 1971.
 
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Yep just like the jihad preaching has been happening since 1970's until 2000 until it exploded much more lethally than any nuke on earth. Logic fail!



Bhutto with his arrogance and lack of leadership qualities completely failed the country by breaking it into two. Then made a last resort attempt on his career by launching Ummah fervor with full vigor. It was really a fail state making its last stand - things then went completely downhill. The Pakistan and ideology of Jinnah ceased to exist post 1971.

Post 1958 Martial law.
 
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Bhutto with his arrogance and lack of leadership qualities completely failed the country by breaking it into two. Then made a last resort attempt on his career by launching Ummah fervor with full vigor. It was really a fail state making its last stand - things then went completely downhill. The Pakistan and ideology of Jinnah ceased to exist post 1971.

I would not take it that far. The East Pakistan debacle was perhaps a reversion to Iqbal's original concept of two Muslim states, one is the east and one in the west.
 
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Guys I don't have much knowledge about the different sect but my understanding was that the raiwind jalsa was basically organised by deobandi/wahabis (funding from Saudia), and the gathering of moderate sunni's as an proper proper sunni's was held some where in/near Multan.

Can any informed member correct me if I am wrong...??? Plus I have never been to these jalsa's so I don't want to comment what goes on there but what I've heard is that ........lets just say its not something we muslims should be proud of.
 
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Experts say that the 'apparently harmless' Sunni religious congregation of Raiwind provides ideological and cultural impetus to many extremist Islamist groups and organizations, including the Taliban.
Pakistan's largest Sunni gathering, called the Tablighi Ijtima, which in English means the 'assembly to spread faith,' came to an end on Sunday after several days of religious activities. It is held annually at the central Pakistani city of Raiwind - also home to former Pakistani Premier Nawaz Sharif - and attracts millions of Sunni devotees from all over Pakistan and other parts of the world. It is believed to be the biggest gathering of Muslims after the Hajj pilgrimage in Mecca, Saudi Arabia. The Pakistani media has reported a turnout of over four million devotees this year.
The Tablighi Jamaat, which means the 'party of Islam's preachers,' organizes the gathering. It was founded in 1926 by the Indian cleric Muhammad Ilyas al-Kandhlawi with an aim to spread Islam to non-Muslims and also to purge the faith from influences of other religions, most notably the Hindu and Christian influences in British India at the time. The organization is an offshoot of the Deobandi movement of Islam, which took off in the Indian city of Deoband as a response to supposedly deteriorating Islamic values in India. Once a local movement, it has now spread to many countries in the world.

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The organization holds similar gatherings in India and Bangladesh as well. The Bangladeshi gathering is said to be as big as the one organized in Pakistan.
"Muslims have lost their way. Our objective is to bring them back to the true path of Islam," Yousuf Usmani, a Tablighi Jamaat activist in the southern Pakistani city Karachi, told DW. "There was a time when Muslims ruled the whole world but now they are being dominated by others. How did that happen? It happened because Muslims are no more the real Muslims."
Cultural cleansing
The Tablighi Jamaat claims to be an apolitical organization but many Pakistani experts say that it gives ideological impetus to most extremist and militant religious organizations in Pakistan, including the Taliban.
Dr. Muhammad Ali Siddiqui, an educationist and literary critic in Karachi, told DW that the Tablighi Jamaat did not take on a political role until Pakistan became a separate state in 1947.
"It can claim whatever it likes, but Tablighi Jamaat is a political organization in my opinion," said Siddiqui. "It is not a spiritual movement or the one which only interprets the matters of fiqh (jurisprudence). It has a well-defined political agenda which provides ideological and cultural fodder to many hardline religious groups."

Experts say that the Tablighi Jamaat in Pakistan emphasizes the concept of a "one-dimensional Islam" which does not leave any room for other forms and interpretations of the religion.
"The Tablighi Jamaat claims that Muslims are backward because they are no longer 'true Muslims.' The idea of a 'better' or a ‘true' Muslim is obviously their own interpretation of the faith," Siddiqui said. He also said that the Tablighi Jamaat was closer to the 'softer' Hanafi Islamic tradition before the partition of India, but had gradually become more similar to the stricter Saudi-Wahhabi Islam.
Political economy of extremism
Farooq Sulehria, a Pakistani journalist and scholar at the School of Oriental and African Studies (SOAS) in London, told DW that there would have been no Taliban without the organizations like the Tablighi Jamaat.
"Organizations like the Tablighi Jamaat create a cultural environment which nurtures and fosters militant Islamists like the Taliban," Sulehria said. "Since the 1980s, the Pakistani state has been investing in creating a jihadist infrastructure. It is not only backing armed groups like Lashkar-e-Taiba but also their ideological patrons like the Tablighi Jamaat."

Experts are of the view that the Tablighi Jamaat has been openly patronized by the Pakistani security agency, the Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI), and also by government heads, including former Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif. There are a number of speculations as to why the Pakistani state would not want to relinquish its support for the Tablighi Jamaat and other similar groups.
"There is no way Pakistan can have an influence in the region, particularly in Afghanistan, if there is no threat of Islamist extremism," Sulehria said.
Western countries accuse Pakistan - the ISI in particular - of backing the Taliban, who claim they have safe havens in Pakistan's northwestern tribal areas, which border Afghanistan. They say the Islamist militants launch attacks on Afghan soil from their hideouts in Pakistan, and that the Pakistani government is not doing enough to destroy the terrorists' sanctuaries.
Some Pakistani analysts are of the view that by supporting organizations like the Tablighi Jamaat, Pakistani authorities are allowing hardline Islamist groups to damage the pluralistic Indo-Pakistani culture. They say that this has resulted in an increased number of persecutions of religious minorities, sectarian killings and attacks on shrines and followers of Islamic saints who preached a secular and humanistic version of Islam.

Pakistan's Raiwind gathering fuels extremism: experts | Asia | DW.DE | 19.11.2012
Who ever starts following Islam and keep beard or lady start covering herself up and do other Islamic things they become extremists in the eyes of these so called liberals who in reality are Rushdie followers and hate Islam and always interested in getting dollars and making their USA master happy
 
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Ive had the dis-pleasure of going to Raiwind during the annual gathering..
I was expecting a sense of brotherhood.. misguided even.
What I found was sectarianism defined as textbook.
The Deobandi's had their own Jamaat for Asr, The Barielvis did their own.. another did it seperataly..
What absolute crap..

On top of which some otherwise respected religious leaders displayed level of "Jihalat" unheard of ..
topping even the evangelists in their promise of "Praise the lord.. I have taken you all into heaven with me by my so and so prayer".

It was a picture of everything that is wrong with Pakistani Muslims..
Thanks to the vile teachings and influences that stemmed from Uyayana.
Did you went to Raiwand or where you went their is only one Jamat but if some guys misses that they can form their own jamat that is what happens even in HAZRAT MUHAMMAD SAW if Sahabas sometimes missed Jamat they would form another Jamat to offer Salah and never heard of this kind of prayer which you are talking about
 
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its not hatred and its not anger - its knows insider knowledge.
I have spent time in every possible islamist organisation found in KSA and PK.

my maternal family were one of the founding members of Jamat e Islami with close interpersonal relations with Deoband, Moulana Moododi and Qazi Hussien!

i see a change a huge change in you over my little time on PDF , can you tell us what made you thinking
 
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Ive had the dis-pleasure of going to Raiwind during the annual gathering..
I was expecting a sense of brotherhood.. misguided even.
What I found was sectarianism defined as textbook.
The Deobandi's had their own Jamaat for Asr, The Barielvis did their own.. another did it seperataly..
What absolute crap..

On top of which some otherwise respected religious leaders displayed level of "Jihalat" unheard of ..
topping even the evangelists in their promise of "Praise the lord.. I have taken you all into heaven with me by my so and so prayer".

It was a picture of everything that is wrong with Pakistani Muslims..
Thanks to the vile teachings and influences that stemmed from Uyayana.

Sorry for My Ignorance but what is Uyayana ??
 
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Who ever starts following Islam and keep beard or lady start covering herself up and do other Islamic things they become extremists in the eyes of these so called liberals who in reality are Rushdie followers and hate Islam and always interested in getting dollars and making their USA master happy

Yaraa tu harr cheez dil par kiyun lei leitaa hai ?

On a side note : Why don't these organizations or organizations born out of such gatherings address the underlying issues of the Pakistani society ! Yes...there is a time, a place & a need for spiritual guidance but right now our materialistic problems are pressing us to the point we can't breathe. Why don't these Clerics start an Anti-Sectarianism campaign....perhaps a long march to Swat or to Quetta to protect the Shia sect of Islam from being butchered like this ? Why don't they start schools & colleges where Islamic Scholars of ages past...people like Avicenna, Ghazali, Averroes etc. are produced ? Masjid ka un par Maulana Sahib society ko guide nahin kar saktaaa ! If Islam is more than praying 5 times a day or fasting once a year for a month & I know it is...then surely the average cleric out there needs to know about it ! You tell me yaar...how many Qaris or Molvis on average actually know the Arabic language with its literature, history & nuances ? I know I've seen very...very few who do...the rest are just reciting Arabic like robots without a clue of whats being said...whereas others have to look up an Urdu translation for that ! Agaaar hamareiii Maulana aur Qari logoon ka yeh haaal hai tou Islamic Renaissance puraneii zamanoo ki tarhaaan khaaq ayeee ga !
 
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Sorry for My Ignorance but what is Uyayana ??

Uyayna, birth place of Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab

'Uyayna
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Al-'Uyayna (Arabic: العيينة‎) is a village in central Saudi Arabia, located some 30 km northwest of the Saudi capital Riyadh. Al-Uyayna was the birthplace of Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab, whose followers are known as the Salafis. Today, Uyayna is a small village and forms together with its neighbor al-Jubayla the Subgovernorate of Al-Uyayna and Al-Jubayla, with a combined population of 4,000. The subgovernorate is part of the Governorate of Dir'iyyah, which in turn is part of Riyadh Province.
 
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Yaraa tu harr cheez dil par kiyun lei leitaa hai ?

On a side note : Why don't these organizations or organizations born out of such gatherings address the underlying issues of the Pakistani society ! Yes...there is a time, a place & a need for spiritual guidance but right now our materialistic problems are pressing us to the point we can't breathe. Why don't these Clerics start an Anti-Sectarianism campaign....perhaps a long march to Swat or to Quetta to protect the Shia sect of Islam from being butchered like this ? Why don't they start schools & colleges where Islamic Scholars of ages past...people like Avicenna, Ghazali, Averroes etc. are produced ? Masjid ka un par Maulana Sahib society ko guide nahin kar saktaaa ! If Islam is more than praying 5 times a day or fasting once a year for a month & I know it is...then surely the average cleric out there needs to know about it ! You tell me yaar...how many Qaris or Molvis on average actually know the Arabic language with its literature, history & nuances ? I know I've seen very...very few who do...the rest are just reciting Arabic like robots without a clue of whats being said...whereas others have to look up an Urdu translation for that ! Agaaar hamareiii Maulana aur Qari logoon ka yeh haaal hai tou Islamic Renaissance puraneii zamanoo ki tarhaaan khaaq ayeee ga !
Sir first before blaming Molvis can you tell me how much you pay them most had to really work hard to fulfill their basic needs but still many of them knows Arabic and first I used to be against Mullahs but after studying Islam and doing research sorry but most problem is with people they want to hear that Islam which only suits them the things which they don't like they don't want to follow and majority Ulemas raise every issue can't be choosy and even those who knows lot of things how many of you bother to listen to them I can give you names of converts who have learnt and read in best Islamic Universities and have also degrees of this dunya but still you will not find their thoughts very different from Mullahs found in our Mosques because Islam is same people need to stop following their nafs and follow Islam
 
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Oscar being a drama queen. I been there and was sitting with all kinds of people.
 
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Guys I don't have much knowledge about the different sect but my understanding was that the raiwind jalsa was basically organised by deobandi/wahabis (funding from Saudia), and the gathering of moderate sunni's as an proper proper sunni's was held some where in/near Multan.

Can any informed member correct me if I am wrong...??? Plus I have never been to these jalsa's so I don't want to comment what goes on there but what I've heard is that ........lets just say its not something we muslims should be proud of.


Basically it is a borefest. You sit around talking about god and his messenger all day and pray.


Great place to catch zzzzzzz's though.
 
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