Pakistan’s PL-15 Missile Equipped JF-17 Block 3 is a Serious Game Changer - How India Can Respond to

[Pandora]

http://www.deagel.com/Sensor-Systems/KLJ-7A_a003556001.aspx

LOTS of talk about 300km BVR ranges

But people dont realise 300km even 200KM BVR range is useless without the accompanying RADAR power

SO KLJ 7A the new AESA radar on Thunder has 170km range with a 5m RCS target plane.

So you may pick SU30MKI and MIG29 at 170km BUT zero chance of picking up Rafale OR Tejas at above 100km as both have rcs of under 1m

One more thing the PL15 has no ramjet technology SO beyond 150km it loses serious speed an kinetic energy

PLAAF adsvertise PL15 as AWACS killer ie SLOW LARGE MOVING TRAGETS.

This is why the Meteore is still the best rated BVR on planet earth ............. WHY = best NEZ and RAM JET

By the same logic what makes you think that you can pick up F16 or thunders all the way upto 150km advertised range of Meteor. Most aircrafts have an RCS of 1.5-3 when not loaded. That also goes for Rafale as well but when loaded it will light up like a XMAS tree. Stealth capabilities of Rfale are very hyped specially considering french didnt even bother to include DSI that also when aircraft has max speed of 1.8 Mach. At the end of day the best range you can achieve a radar lock is around 100KM. SU30 and MIg29s will be the first ones to light up the radars. Mig 21 Mirages 2000 and Rfale will be your only front line assets in a war. In short Meteor might get a lock of AWAS at 150km range but not an fighter jet in our inventory. Then there is a matter of dense EW envoirnment. IF not fully disabled it will certainly reduce detection capability of any aircraft.

 

[GumNaam]

What is a tie fighter?

star wars!

 

[The Accountant]

http://www.deagel.com/Sensor-Systems/KLJ-7A_a003556001.aspx

LOTS of talk about 300km BVR ranges

But people dont realise 300km even 200KM BVR range is useless without the accompanying RADAR power

SO KLJ 7A the new AESA radar on Thunder has 170km range with a 5m RCS target plane.

So you may pick SU30MKI and MIG29 at 170km BUT zero chance of picking up Rafale OR Tejas at above 100km as both have rcs of under 1m

One more thing the PL15 has no ramjet technology SO beyond 150km it loses serious speed an kinetic energy

PLAAF adsvertise PL15 as AWACS killer ie SLOW LARGE MOVING TRAGETS.

This is why the Meteore is still the best rated BVR on planet earth ............. WHY = best NEZ and RAM JET

First of all please explain that if BVR max range is limited by aircraft own radar then why same is not applicable on Meteor? For argument sake even if Kinetic energy of meteor is high after 150 km v/s PL15 even then what difference does it make when rafael cannot target anything beyond 150 kms?

Furthermore, have you ever heard of dual pulse motor? the second phase of PL15 starts after getting close to the target which gives it a new kinetic energy so your argument is also flawed that PL15 will loose its kinetic energy.

You are claiming that NEZ of Rafael is high, what make you think that no escape zone of PL15 is low? absence of data does not means its inferrior or even superior.

Chinese data protection laws are very strict and in absence of these comparative information we assume that both are comparable in terms of battle field performance i.e. taking on targets within 150 kms. In such cases you need to consider the advantages Pakistan have. Meteor are going to be armed on 36 rafaels only whereas PL15 are going to be inducted on Pakistan workhorse thunder which are going to be numbered anywhere from 200 to 300 fighters. plus cost of PL15 (due to dual pulse rocket motor v/s ramjet) is significantly lower than meteor. So potentially Pakistan has to incur much lower expense to take down similar number of aircrafts as compared to India.

Apparently PL15 and JF17 combo is much more lethal as it gets the same objective as meteor rafael combo but at a lower cost and higher availability.

 

[SD 10]

http://www.deagel.com/Sensor-Systems/KLJ-7A_a003556001.aspx

LOTS of talk about 300km BVR ranges

But people dont realise 300km even 200KM BVR range is useless without the accompanying RADAR power

SO KLJ 7A the new AESA radar on Thunder has 170km range with a 5m RCS target plane.

So you may pick SU30MKI and MIG29 at 170km BUT zero chance of picking up Rafale OR Tejas at above 100km as both have rcs of under 1m

One more thing the PL15 has no ramjet technology SO beyond 150km it loses serious speed an kinetic energy

PLAAF adsvertise PL15 as AWACS killer ie SLOW LARGE MOVING TRAGETS.

This is why the Meteore is still the best rated BVR on planet earth ............. WHY = best NEZ and RAM JET

French overrate their hardware......... Chinese are different they dont make noise!!!!!!

 

[The Maverick]

First of all please explain that if BVR max range is limited by aircraft own radar then why same is not applicable on Meteor? For argument sake even if Kinetic energy of meteor is high after 150 km v/s PL15 even then what difference does it make when rafael cannot target anything beyond 150 kms?

Furthermore, have you ever heard of dual pulse motor? the second phase of PL15 starts after getting close to the target which gives it a new kinetic energy so your argument is also flawed that PL15 will loose its kinetic energy.

You are claiming that NEZ of Rafael is high, what make you think that no escape zone of PL15 is low? absence of data does not means its inferrior or even superior.

Chinese data protection laws are very strict and in absence of these comparative information we assume that both are comparable in terms of battle field performance i.e. taking on targets within 150 kms. In such cases you need to consider the advantages Pakistan have. Meteor are going to be armed on 36 rafaels only whereas PL15 are going to be inducted on Pakistan workhorse thunder which are going to be numbered anywhere from 200 to 300 fighters. plus cost of PL15 (due to dual pulse rocket motor v/s ramjet) is significantly lower than meteor. So potentially Pakistan has to incur much lower expense to take down similar number of aircrafts as compared to India.

Apparently PL15 and JF17 combo is much more lethal as it gets the same objective as meteor rafael combo but at a lower cost and higher availability.

Both rbe2 and elta aesa radars advertised specs are far superior to your maiden chinease effort .
Rbe2 220km and 64 targets
Elta 200km and 60 targets
And against lower rcs fighters

Every man and his dog knows French and Israeli technology is years ahead of China.
So that kills your first challenge
Second your block 3 is only 50 numbers and only in 2025.
It will take a decade to get to 200 thunders on aesa .
Same token so will tejas and rafale take decade but we have ten times your resources and that will just get bigger and bigger.
Bvr engagement is chicken and run and no kill has occurred above 60km in history of warfare .
Your f16 fired 5 amraans at mki they all missed in 2019
Ask your self why

 

[Sabretooth]

Any news on when this GAMECHANGER is supposed to show up for GAME-CHANGING?

 

[KAI KAI Baloch]

Both rbe2 and elta aesa radars advertised specs are far superior to your maiden chinease effort .
Rbe2 220km and 64 targets
Elta 200km and 60 targets
And against lower rcs fighters

Every man and his dog knows French and Israeli technology is years ahead of China.
So that kills your first challenge
Second your block 3 is only 50 numbers and only in 2025.
It will take a decade to get to 200 thunders on aesa .
Same token so will tejas and rafale take decade but we have ten times your resources and that will just get bigger and bigger.
Bvr engagement is chicken and run and no kill has occurred above 60km in history of warfare .
Your f16 fired 5 amraans at mki they all missed in 2019.

Can you share a source of the claim of rbe 2 radar range at 220 km?? As per the magazine military technology the detection range is 100 nm that would translate to 183 km and that too is theoratical! And detection of 40 targets...
Secondly iaf was only able to show one amraam which was easy enough to retrieve from a su30mki... what about the rest 4??? Did you recover them???
Regarding thuders, be what may at this given moment the modernization pace of paf is far more better than iaf.... by next 7 to 10 years paf will have replaced all legacy platforms and maintaining its sqd strength.... where as iaf will have more diverse platforms which cannot talk to one another (low synergy) too many maint tails and less force multipliers and low cockpit to pilot ratio...

 

[The Accountant]

Both rbe2 and elta aesa radars advertised specs are far superior to your maiden chinease effort .
Rbe2 220km and 64 targets
Elta 200km and 60 targets
And against lower rcs fighters

Every man and his dog knows French and Israeli technology is years ahead of China.
So that kills your first challenge
Second your block 3 is only 50 numbers and only in 2025.
It will take a decade to get to 200 thunders on aesa .
Same token so will tejas and rafale take decade but we have ten times your resources and that will just get bigger and bigger.
Bvr engagement is chicken and run and no kill has occurred above 60km in history of warfare .
Your f16 fired 5 amraans at mki they all missed in 2019
Ask your self why

Again assumptions without any hard facts. 220 km range for which size ? with 838 TR modules, RBE2 is inferrior to KLJ7A with 1000 TR modules. WHat is the basis of 220 or 200 km range? you know radar ranges are the most classified secrets in aviation and here you are claiming of knows it all.

We have seen such superior performance claim for asian raptor as well but in reality it could not even take care of thunders and 60 years old mirrages.

You can make big claims only.

5 AMRAAMs were fired but wreckage of only 1 was shown and that too in hundred of pieces. No one take your airforce claims seriously. First you take down some trees in Balakot but claimed taken down 300 people busted badly. Then you claimed taking down F16 by Mig but all missiles of Mig found and displayed. They were not even fired infact Abhi himself accepted he was searching for the target when he was taken down. You guy awarded him for something he didnt even claim to do.
last but not the least you took down your own helicopter.

So I am done with your claim.

With respect to our production capacity we have capacity of producing 25 aircrafts per year so once the design is final it will take 2 years to produce 50 fighters and our upgaradation factory is separate so we can upgrade block 2 and 1 to block 3 configuration simultaneously.

 

[Figaro]

Both rbe2 and elta aesa radars advertised specs are far superior to your maiden chinease effort .
Rbe2 220km and 64 targets
Elta 200km and 60 targets
And against lower rcs fighters

Every man and his dog knows French and Israeli technology is years ahead of China.
So that kills your first challenge
Second your block 3 is only 50 numbers and only in 2025.
It will take a decade to get to 200 thunders on aesa .
Same token so will tejas and rafale take decade but we have ten times your resources and that will just get bigger and bigger.
Bvr engagement is chicken and run and no kill has occurred above 60km in history of warfare .
Your f16 fired 5 amraans at mki they all missed in 2019
Ask your self why

Someone seems insecure that their precious Rafael AESA is going to get outcompeted by that of the JF-17 Block 3's at 1/8 of the price

Again assumptions without any hard facts. 220 km range for which size ? with 838 TR modules, RBE2 is inferrior to KLJ7A with 1000 TR modules. WHat is the basis of 220 or 200 km range? you know radar ranges are the most classified secrets in aviation and here you are claiming of knows it all.

We have seen such superior performance claim for asian raptor as well but in reality it could not even take care of thunders and 60 years old mirrages.

You can make big claims only.

5 AMRAAMs were fired but wreckage of only 1 was shown and that too in hundred of pieces. No one take your airforce claims seriously. First you take down some trees in Balakot but claimed taken down 300 people busted badly. Then you claimed taking down F16 by Mig but all missiles of Mig found and displayed. They were not even fired infact Abhi himself accepted he was searching for the target when he was taken down. You guy awarded him for something he didnt even claim to do.
last but not the least you took down your own helicopter.

So I am done with your claim.

With respect to our production capacity we have capacity of producing 25 aircrafts per year so once the design is final it will take 2 years to produce 50 fighters and our upgaradation factory is separate so we can upgrade block 2 and 1 to block 3 configuration simultaneously.

I love how he does not give any specific figures here

 

[KAI KAI Baloch]

Again assumptions without any hard facts. 220 km range for which size ? with 838 TR modules, RBE2 is inferrior to KLJ7A with 1000 TR modules. WHat is the basis of 220 or 200 km range? you know radar ranges are the most classified secrets in aviation and here you are claiming of knows it all.

We have seen such superior performance claim for asian raptor as well but in reality it could not even take care of thunders and 60 years old mirrages.

You can make big claims only.

5 AMRAAMs were fired but wreckage of only 1 was shown and that too in hundred of pieces. No one take your airforce claims seriously. First you take down some trees in Balakot but claimed taken down 300 people busted badly. Then you claimed taking down F16 by Mig but all missiles of Mig found and displayed. They were not even fired infact Abhi himself accepted he was searching for the target when he was taken down. You guy awarded him for something he didnt even claim to do.
last but not the least you took down your own helicopter.

So I am done with your claim.

With respect to our production capacity we have capacity of producing 25 aircrafts per year so once the design is final it will take 2 years to produce 50 fighters and our upgaradation factory is separate so we can upgrade block 2 and 1 to block 3

Again assumptions without any hard facts. 220 km range for which size ? with 838 TR modules, RBE2 is inferrior to KLJ7A with 1000 TR modules. WHat is the basis of 220 or 200 km range? you know radar ranges are the most classified secrets in aviation and here you are claiming of knows it all.

We have seen such superior performance claim for asian raptor as well but in reality it could not even take care of thunders and 60 years old mirrages.

You can make big claims only.

5 AMRAAMs were fired but wreckage of only 1 was shown and that too in hundred of pieces. No one take your airforce claims seriously. First you take down some trees in Balakot but claimed taken down 300 people busted badly. Then you claimed taking down F16 by Mig but all missiles of Mig found and displayed. They were not even fired infact Abhi himself accepted he was searching for the target when he was taken down. You guy awarded him for something he didnt even claim to do.
last but not the least you took down your own helicopter.

So I am done with your claim.

With respect to our production capacity we have capacity of producing 25 aircrafts per year so once the design is final it will take 2 years to produce 50 fighters and our upgaradation factory is separate so we can upgrade block 2 and 1 to block 3 configuration simultaneously.

radar..

Abhijit ayer bambooing the raptor of east at 1:07:17
About the issues with el8222 and russian

 

[Daghalodi]

Again assumptions without any hard facts. 220 km range for which size ? with 838 TR modules, RBE2 is inferrior to KLJ7A with 1000 TR modules. WHat is the basis of 220 or 200 km range? you know radar ranges are the most classified secrets in aviation and here you are claiming of knows it all.

We have seen such superior performance claim for asian raptor as well but in reality it could not even take care of thunders and 60 years old mirrages.

You can make big claims only.

5 AMRAAMs were fired but wreckage of only 1 was shown and that too in hundred of pieces. No one take your airforce claims seriously. First you take down some trees in Balakot but claimed taken down 300 people busted badly. Then you claimed taking down F16 by Mig but all missiles of Mig found and displayed. They were not even fired infact Abhi himself accepted he was searching for the target when he was taken down. You guy awarded him for something he didnt even claim to do.
last but not the least you took down your own helicopter.

So I am done with your claim.

With respect to our production capacity we have capacity of producing 25 aircrafts per year so once the design is final it will take 2 years to produce 50 fighters and our upgaradation factory is separate so we can upgrade block 2 and 1 to block 3 configuration simultaneously.

OH MY GOD!!

You nailed it. That bharati troll is gobsmacked!!

 

[HammerHead081]

Whats with the garbage thread title? India has nothing to respond to as they have jets which outnumber us both qualitative and quantitative wise... it is PAF who has to respond to new IAF weapons and jets.

 

[Figaro]

Whats with the garbage thread title? India has nothing to respond to as they have jets which outnumber us both qualitative and quantitative wise... it is PAF who has to respond to new IAF weapons and jets.

PAF needs JF-17 Block III as fast as possible ... probably some J-10CEs would also be necessary IMO as the most optimal solution, the F-16V, is off the table.

 

[Aasimkhan]

http://www.deagel.com/Sensor-Systems/KLJ-7A_a003556001.aspx

LOTS of talk about 300km BVR ranges

But people dont realise 300km even 200KM BVR range is useless without the accompanying RADAR power

SO KLJ 7A the new AESA radar on Thunder has 170km range with a 5m RCS target plane.

So you may pick SU30MKI and MIG29 at 170km BUT zero chance of picking up Rafale OR Tejas at above 100km as both have rcs of under 1m

One more thing the PL15 has no ramjet technology SO beyond 150km it loses serious speed an kinetic energy

PLAAF adsvertise PL15 as AWACS killer ie SLOW LARGE MOVING TRAGETS.

This is why the Meteore is still the best rated BVR on planet earth ............. WHY = best NEZ and RAM JET

HAHA missile will get guidance from AWACS and may be satellites. You think only integral radar of the aircraft can guide missiles ? Speaks of your poor understanding of modern air warfare

 

[Tejas Spokesman]

Again assumptions without any hard facts. 220 km range for which size ? with 838 TR modules, RBE2 is inferrior to KLJ7A with 1000 TR modules. WHat is the basis of 220 or 200 km range? you know radar ranges are the most classified secrets in aviation and here you are claiming of knows it all.

You are completely wrong as always. RBE-2AA has more than a 1000 TRMs (exact no. classified).
The one with 840 modules was an early prototype with older gen American TRMs. The production version has smaller new gen European TRMs:

Indian Rafales may have side looking AESA arrays and has Spectra EW suite with new GaN based AESA modules.