Pakistan's navy interested in Chinese submarines and advance naval ships

[Penguin]

Which International treaty hold Turkey to export one of those systems I have typed above, to Pakistan, When Turkey agreed on selling some of them ?

Turkey is a NATO country. Nato has policies on arms control and -exports. Likewise the EU, of which Turkey is seeking membership.

Such international organisations are based on treaties, which need not specifically ban the sale of item X to country Z, but they will affect possibilities.

And also, don't underestimate the influence of bi-lateral agreements. Turkey is a longstanding receiver of US foreign military aid, for example. All that is leverage.

e.g. News Analysis: NATO, Arms Control and Nonproliferation: An Alliance Divided? | Arms Control Association

e.g. US Woos War Allies with Cash, Weapons

 

[Jigs]

Penguin i am wondering how would you assess the current Turkish Navy. Do you see any improvements we can make ? Just wondering.

 

[Super Falcon]

welll i dont think so that their is right given by germans to sell pakistan specially

 

[Penguin]

Penguin i am wondering how would you assess the current Turkish Navy. Do you see any improvements we can make ? Just wondering.

Comparable to other NATO navies e.g. German and Spanish navies. All the MEKOs should move up to ESSM/VL. OHPs could benefit from a refit like the Australian one: SM2+ESSM/VL. Eventually a class of dedicated AAW vessels is needed. By which time OHPs should be paying off. MEKO A200 seems a good candidate and complement to existing MEKO fleet. Also, compared to NATO navies, it's time for an LPD or 2 and fewer LSTs.

 

[cabatli_53]

Turkey is a NATO country. Nato has policies on arms control and -exports. Likewise the EU, of which Turkey is seeking membership.

Nato is a pact which standardise the type of armaments to increase the cooperation capabilities of NATO allies under a same roof against a common threat. It has nothing to control the arm exports of members, Until you did not supply the armaments for a common threat like terorists. At current global world, Even Russia is selling many strategic weapon system to NATO countries and NATO countries are also doing same...

EU is also same. It is a politic and economic organisation that is encouraging the own members to make more trade among eachothers and take common agreements politically and act like one hand at foreign policies. EU just encourage the members to order European made weapons to keep the euro in their zone but It is not a prohibition for members to order only European products. Poland, England, Italy and many others can be given as an example to this situation...

Such international organisations are based on treaties, which need not specifically ban the sale of item X to country Z, but they will affect possibilities.

As I said, Except some special international treaties signed to stop expanding the mass destruction weapons such as MTCR, NPT...etc, Others has nothing to do with export policies of countries between eachothers... When Turkey agreed on cooperating with Pakistan about U-214 subsystems and Those systems I have mentioned, have been developed by Turkish engineers, Others have just rights to appreciate Turkey and Pakistan partnership.

And also, don't underestimate the influence of bi-lateral agreements. Turkey is a longstanding receiver of US foreign military aid, for example. All that is leverage.

Yes indeed. It is the explanation of "Politic effect" . It has nothing to do with international treaties to make a trade with an X country.

 

[Jigs]

Comparable to other NATO navies e.g. German and Spanish navies. All the MEKOs should move up to ESSM/VL. OHPs could benefit from a refit like the Australian one: SM2+ESSM/VL. Eventually a class of dedicated AAW vessels is needed. By which time OHPs should be paying off. MEKO A200 seems a good candidate and complement to existing MEKO fleet. Also, compared to NATO navies, it's time for an LPD or 2 and fewer LSTs.

This is what we currently have in the works for future procurement.

Two additional Kılıç-II class fast attack missile boats and three additional A class mine hunters are currently under construction.

Plans to build a total of four TF-2000 class AAW frigates the acquisition of a Landing Platform Dock (LPD) and a total of six Type 214 AIP submarines were approved by the Turkish Ministry of Defense on 12 December 2006. The RfI issued for the LPD project states that the requirement is for one LPD carrying 4 Landing Craft Mechanics (LCM), 27 Amphibious Assault Vehicles (AAV), 2 Landing Craft Personnel Vehicles (LCPV), 1 Commander Boat and 1 Rubber Hull Inflated Boat (RHIB). The Turkish Navy also plans to acquire 2 new Tank Landing Ships (LST), 8 new Tank Landing Crafts (LCT), 16 new Offshore Patrol Vessels (OPV) with ASW capability, 2 new Rescue & Towing (R&T) ships, and 1 new Submarine Rescue Mother Ship (MOSHIP).

The Yavuz class MEKO ships which are the ones that don't have ESSM yet are going to undergo that upgrade i believe. The rest have VLS Mk 41 Mod.8 which can launch ESSM.

 

[Penguin]

The Yavuz class MEKO ships which are the ones that don't have ESSM yet are going to undergo that upgrade i believe. The rest have VLS Mk 41 Mod.8 which can launch ESSM.

I like the Sea Guard CIWS fit on these ships, which also makes them eminently suitable for dealing with small craft and asymmetric threats (3x quad 25mm KBB rocks)

 

[Jigs]

I like the Sea Guard CIWS fit on these ships, which also makes them eminently suitable for dealing with small craft and asymmetric threats (3x quad 25mm KBB rocks)

You can see it firing at a incoming target in this video. The thing rips.

Do you know other nations that operate this system. Usually they go for the Phalanx CIWS. It seems our Navy operates the MEKOs as a defensive ship to deny assets more then anything. Our G-class(OHP) are the ships we operate for an offensive role.

 

[Penguin]

YouTube - Turkish Sea Zenith CIWS Weapon (Cehennem Silahi) You can see it firing at a incoming target in this video. The thing rips.

Do you know other nations that operate this system. Usually they go for the Phalanx CIWS. It seems our Navy operates the MEKOs as a defensive ship to deny assets more then anything. Our G-class(OHP) are the ships we operate for an offensive role.

Turkey is the only navy to have adopted the system, with it's distinctive canted gun mounts and hemispherical gun coverage. The 25mm KBB (25x184) round is very close in performance to the 30mm round fired by the GAU-8 gatling (30x173).

Comparison pic from the website of Tony Williams

 

[Super Falcon]

pakistan navy always get interested but when time to come for signing the deal they run like horses

 

[bd_4_ever]

pakistan navy always get interested but when time to come for signing the deal they run like horses

Dont be negative....military deals are not a one-night occurance....takes time, may be your GoP taking a look into some other prospectives as well....

Btw, has any deal been signed yet with the Chinese??


Cheers!!!

 

[Penguin]

Nato is a pact which standardise the type of armaments to increase the cooperation capabilities of NATO allies under a same roof against a common threat. It has nothing to control the arm exports of members, Until you did not supply the armaments for a common threat like terorists. At current global world, Even Russia is selling many strategic weapon system to NATO countries and NATO countries are also doing same...

EU is also same. It is a politic and economic organisation that is encouraging the own members to make more trade among eachothers and take common agreements politically and act like one hand at foreign policies. EU just encourage the members to order European made weapons to keep the euro in their zone but It is not a prohibition for members to order only European products. Poland, England, Italy and many others can be given as an example to this situation...





As I said, Except some special international treaties signed to stop expanding the mass destruction weapons such as MTCR, NPT...etc, Others has nothing to do with export policies of countries between eachothers... When Turkey agreed on cooperating with Pakistan about U-214 subsystems and Those systems I have mentioned, have been developed by Turkish engineers, Others have just rights to appreciate Turkey and Pakistan partnership.



Yes indeed. It is the explanation of "Politic effect" . It has nothing to do with international treaties to make a trade with an X country.

I clearly have no idea what I'm talking about.

 

[Super Falcon]

PN is just interested but not interested in buying them but watching them

 

[Mani2020]

For many years Pakistan navy deals are more controversial than anything else.

As our people mostly concentrate and focus on Air force and army so the navy get a chance to sneak through

There is no budgetary problems with PN as many people think because in Pakistan Arm forces modernization program equal budget was allocated for PAF and PN ,so when PAF can buy so much of equipment with that budget like 4 il-78,5saab-2000, 4Kj-200,jf-17, 5billion deal for f-16

Than why cant navy buy few german submarines with that money

History has shown us that we have puppets in navy more than in any other field and most of you people still remember the Augosta-90 submarine deals

Patriotism is a good thing but its the over patriotism that leads to our disaster.
Criticizing anything is a best way to get the best out of it

 

[khurasaan1]

i hope to see some PN get some modern warfare systems soon ;subs and ships or be able to build at home in vast numbers.