Pakistan's National Identity, My thoughts and opinions on Pakistan's problems.

[Mirzali Khan]

We are divided like most societies and countries, the right wing is more religious and focused on Muslim countries, but we also have a growing secular middle class, who don't see the world in binary terms.

They hate india are nationalists, but are not overly religious. As we become more prosperous this class will only increase

Imran Khan was creating this kind of class btw

My friend I have been saying this for ten years since I joined PDF in 2012.

Damn man, during that time I was playing Mario Kart

I am glad slowly this issue finally is coming up for consideration.

It became abundantly clear after Imran Khan's removal.

There's a reason why some parts of Pakistan just genuinely feel left out. Sindhi diaspora population isn't as high and represented among Pakistani diaspora in general. But, there's a reason why people from Quetta, ex-FATA, and rest of Balochistan and their respective diasporas think they aren't p[art of the conversation of mainstream Pakistan and even Pakistani diaspora at large doesn't really pay attention or know those places.

Ottoman Empire brough nothing new to this world. It was essentially just warlordism on steriods. They roded the Greek, Persian and Levant Arab civilizations. If you look at all those great sites in Istanbul most are just Greek base with edifice Perso-Arabic on top.

Ottoman's respected ethnic differences that's the thing. Similar to India.

But the success of Turkey has been to meld all these bastarized people - white, brown, blond, brunete, into the idea that they are all Turks. This they have done a spectaculat job.

It started a Kurdish insurgency that they kind of dealt with. I mean, Turkey knows how to handle their insurgencies and business.

 

[Mirzali Khan]

Pakistan has everything. We have history, we have heritage that we let Gangus to our east claim as their all the while we ourselves ignore it. We have orphaned our people from our land and heritage. Time to own it and scream 'we are Pakistani with 8,000 years history'. We have the world one of earluest civilizations, we gave the world the mathematical zero.

Well to me its the opposite. Pakistan is a chapter in all group's history, the groups aren't a chapter in Pakistan's history.

We can go this route, but how do we convince other Pakistanis that Pakistan is not some Islamic Paradise?

Instead of licking outsiders. Be proud of our people, our lands.

Diaspora does the opposite.

 

[Asimzranger]

 

[Rafi]

Imran Khan was creating this kind of class btw



Damn man, during that time I was playing Mario Kart



It became abundantly clear after Imran Khan's removal.

There's a reason why some parts of Pakistan just genuinely feel left out. Sindhi diaspora population isn't as high and represented among Pakistani diaspora in general. But, there's a reason why people from Quetta, ex-FATA, and rest of Balochistan and their respective diasporas think they aren't p[art of the conversation of mainstream Pakistan and even Pakistani diaspora at large doesn't really pay attention or know those places.



Ottoman's respected ethnic differences that's the thing. Similar to India.

Bs, India does not respect differences in fact India does not have even a common religion or culture to hold it together, you praising India is suspect.

LoL questioning Paks legitimacy, while praising India, does not seem very Pakistani sounds very indian, carry on bud, you going through a great deal of effort for so little reward, this is the Internet after all, but if it makes you happy that you are doing something for mother India go for it.

 

[Mirzali Khan]

But one thing is certain, there is something seriously wrong with the average Pakistani mindset, perhaps a sense of insecurity so ride off every other country, or perhaps an identity crisis.

Identity crisis stems from the fact there's no singular answer to "What is Pakistan?"

Some Pakistanis think its a continuation of Mughal Empire, so they proselytize Urdu to everyone under the sun.

Some think it should be a liberal democracy

Some think its a return of the Indus Valley Civilization.

Some think it should be an Islamic Paradise with Shariah law.

Urdu, Shalwar Kameez, and Islam is something that has been produced from this so called "identity".

 

[Rafi]

We see the various pushes against China and now Turkey, to the people pushing this narrative, nothing will change Turkey and Pakistan will continue to be close and most of the people will get along, because these states national interests are aligned.

And Pakistani nationalism is a real player now in the politics of the country, and will continue to grow as the middle class grows.

 

[Mirzali Khan]

Bs, India does not respect differences in fact India does not have even a common religion or culture to hold it together, you praising India is suspect.

Average Indian knows more than 2-3 languages. Majority of Pakistanis don't know what my cultural clothes and dance is called let alone name a single city in Balochistan.

If looking at India and seeing something right they do is "suspect" then go on, maybe Pakistani fitrat is to hide your head in the sand and pretend nothing is wrong like flamingoes.

LoL questioning Paks legitimacy, while praising India, does not seem very Pakistani sounds very indian, carry on bud, you going through a great deal of effort for so little reward, this is the Internet after all, but if it makes you happy that you are doing something for mother India go for it.

I have no idea what you are saying. I am Pashtun lmfaoooo

 

[Maula Jatt]

We see the various pushes against China and now Turkey, to the people pushing this narrative, nothing will change Turkey and Pakistan will continue to be close and most of the people will get along, because these states national interests are aligned.

And Pakistani nationalism is a real player now in the politics of the country, and will continue to grow as the middle class grows.

we have the highest urbanization rate and biggest middle-class % wise compared to others in SA some years ago at least (except SL of course)
are we the most nationalist in all of SA? .... not too sure

 

[Mirzali Khan]

Also, what Pakistanis need to start realising is that non-Pakistani Muslims do NOT share the same enthusiasm for Islam and Islamic Unity/Ummah that Pakistanis do. They in fact feel the exact opposite. Arabs, Iranians, Turks, afghans, Somalians etc are all HIGHLY nationalistic. It's about time Pakistanis did the same. Then and ONLY then will we move forward and will stop being pawns for foreigners.

This will never happen unless Pakistanis start looking inward and be interested in other provinces cultures rather than attending AP Dhillon concerts.

Seriously, Pakistanis I have met know more East Punjabi singers than Pakistani Pashto singers. This is a problem!!!!

What is wrong is the lack of Pakistani nationalism and patriotism. It creates weak, insecure and unproductive people.

Define "Pakistani Nationalism" and "Pakistaniyat" you can't have lack of something people can barely define lmaooo

The answer lies in something very simple. In the city you live in go take a drive through Pakistani majority area and see if anything is peddled as Pakistani. You will struggle. Instead Arab, Desi, Turkish, Indian, Asian, Apna will be used.

It's like a Pakistan is a dirty name. Our own people don't even use it. Others use it but only to heap contempt or denigrate us.

Majority use "Indo-Pak" LOL or use "Afghan"

This is more of an identity crisis for people not knowing who they are, so they ride off other countries, as well as foolish political statements and naivety.

And not knowing who others are.

I think you people read far too much into non issues. A handful of people tweet something and we become besties4eva. The next day a handful of people tweet something and we become frenemies.

We are emotionally unstable because of Hum TV.

I went back 8,000 years but that is not to say nothing happened since. In fact every century or era saw great events on the Indus basin all the way to present.

I delight in travel in Pakistan particulary since the spawling motorway network has made driving joy. Every corner of the country has some story, some heritage that will blow you away. On top of that the beauty of the people is beyond belief. I saw Kochi nomads south of Isakhel [home of the famous singer] and what a sight. What a sight. Grand is the only word. You find this across all of Pakistan.

 

[Rafi]

Average Indian knows more than 2-3 languages. Majority of Pakistanis don't know what my cultural clothes and dance is called let alone name a single city in Balochistan.

If looking at India and seeing something right they do is "suspect" then go on, maybe Pakistani fitrat is to hide your head in the sand and pretend nothing is wrong like flamingoes.



I have no idea what you are saying. I am Pashtun lmfaoooo

How would you know, how are you an expert, you sound so fake it makes me laugh, in all large cities in Pakistan including Quetta are multi lingual and multi ethnic. Indians are the most racist people I have ever encountered.

I doubt you are Pashtun and even if you are, most likely afghan refugee, I have come across the likes of you before.

Most likely bitter because you never got Pak nationality, bro most Pakistani Pashtuns don't want you guys to get Pakistani nationality.

From my experience the most bitter opponents of Afghans are Pakistani Pashtuns.

 

[Mirzali Khan]

You are asking what is Pakistani identity?

Well we are Muslims, and the citizens of the Pakistani land.

We are Punjabis, Pathans, Sindhis, Baloch, and Kashmiris.

Thats who we are.

You yourself say you are "pAtHaN" but then go on to say that Pashto is a useless language in another thread some time ago.

If an identity is based on Arab/Afghan larp and erasing local, native culture then why should we even look forward to an identity?

 

[Maula Jatt]

How would you know, how are you an expert, you sound so fake it makes me laugh, in all large cities in Pakistan including Quetta are multi lingual and multi ethnic. Indians are the most racist people I have ever encountered.

I doubt you are Pashtun and even if you are, most likely afghan refugee, I have come across the likes of you before.

Most likely bitter because you never got Pak nationality, bro most Pakistani Pashtuns don't want you guys to get Pakistani nationality.

From my experience the most bitter opponents of Afghans are Pakistani Pashtuns.

dude you are wrong lol, check his posting history

 

[Rafi]

we have the highest urbanization rate and biggest middle-class % wise compared to others in SA some years ago at least (except SL of course)
are we the most nationalist in all of SA? .... not too sure

Lol believe what you want. It seems like an organised campaign from our Eastern neighbours, I'm just telling them it seems a waste of time and effort, Pakistan nation has gone through much more hard times and come out stronger.

 

[Mirzali Khan]

How would you know, how are you an expert, you sound so fake it makes me laugh, in all large cities in Pakistan including Quetta are multi lingual and multi ethnic.

Sound fake? I can speak fluent Pashto and others know me from some time in this forum LOLLLL

Quetta isn't "multi-ethnic" its majority Pashtun and Baloch. There's been migration to that place recently,

Its not a lie that diaspora and people from ex-FATA, rest of Balochistan, and Quetta era do genuinely feel left out of the mainstream conversation. Even diaspora feel that way.

You still haven't answered my question, how come Pakistanis came name more East Punjabi singers than Pakistani Pashto singers? How come Pakistani diapsora have no idea about the other provinces but somehow we are all "one".

There needs to be some serious introspection, because after Imran Khan being taken out there is a rising level of discontent.

I doubt you are Pashtun and even if you are, most likely afghan refugee, I have come across the likes of you before.

Moment I disagree I with Pakistan I am now Afghan refugee

Yo most Afghans promote PTM or TTP, they aren't pro Imran Khan.

Most Pakistanis don't know anything about Pashtunkhwa so its okay tho

 

[Rafi]

dude you are wrong lol, check his posting history

Long time larping, I'm just saying on an online forum where everyone's identity is hidden, this bs does not effect anyone, identity is complex everyones feeling of belonging comes from different perspectives, indian pushed narrative against Pakistani nationhood will have little to minimum effect.
But if you guys want to waste your time and money go ahead.