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Pakistan's National Identity, My thoughts and opinions on Pakistan's problems.

This is the source of the fuckin problem. So is 1.6 billion people and found in over 60 countries, five continents on earth. This is like saying Pakistani's are people as if rest of the world is animals and only us are people.

And where does this leave the Christian, Sikh, Hindus, Kalash etc of Pakistan. In your account a Negro Muslim in New York Bronx like Mike Tyson is a Pakistani but a the PAF ace Group Captain Cecil Chaudry is not a Pakistani.
Pakistanis are mostly Muslims. Your point is?

Yes the minorities are also Pakistanis, but Pakistani ideology is based on the majority of Pakistanis.

Instead of uttering profanities, use your head first and think rationally.

Regards.
 
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And ethnic group language group hi hotay hain. Language is the only thing which a Bhutto sindhi has in common with talpur or lashari Sindhi
But you know that's another culture clash
It's only Sindh, Punjab that this can happen and to some extent Kashmir

You live 3 generations in that land and speak the language at home you become that

But western regions are tribal you can never become a Baloch or Pashtun like that - there's a tribal tradition that I never felt the need to know but I do know that it exists and you can't join the club by living for generations or by speaking the language
 
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Turkey main 2 baray ethnic group hain Turks and Kurds. Kurds ko wo turk nahi bana sakay. Pakistan na to puray mulk ko 1 language sikha di ha
Just replace 'Turk' with Punjabi and their mix is same as Pakistan. Even what goes as 'Turk' has very mixed heritage but which has been assimiliated.

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Just replace 'Turk' with Punjabi and their mix is same as Pakistan. Even what goes as 'Turk' has very mixed heritage but which has been assimiliated.

View attachment 842246
That's crazy so basically, turkey demographics is Pakistan but way more ethno-nats and have literally named their entire country after themselves (who just like here are assimilated people into similar language, traditions) and are beating up others into becoming turks, :lol:
 
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Iran? You think they are just one ethnic group. Nope. Iran as as multi-ethnic as Turkey and Pakistan. Only the mix is differant. Note Kurds are found in Turkey and Iran. Baloch in Iran and Pakistan. Punjabi in Pakistan and India. Pakistan is NOT unique in anyway.

People cry on about Pakistan as if rest are just one ethnic group countries. Incorrect. India of course is even more multi-ethnic.

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Pakistan for comparison.

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That's crazy so basically, turkey demographics is Pakistan but way more ethno-nats and have literally named their entire country after themselves (who just like here are assimilated people into similar language, traditions) and are beating up others into becoming turks, :lol:
Yes. Even those who answer as 'Turk' are actually only probably 10% Turkic by blood. They are just conquered Greeks, Arabs, Persians etc who have been mashed into thinking they are Turk and adopt Turkish language.
 
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After the recent surge in anti-pakistan posts from Turkish Social Media, i've been wanting to pen down some of my own opinions and thoughts regarding the situation, as well as to address some issues i've had with Pakistan's "perceived" identity. As our current system is busy pulling each other's legs at the moment, it has done an extremely poor job with regards to building the nation's national conscience as well its national identity.

Turkish Situation:

With regards to the recent deteriorating Pak-Turk people-to-people relations, i've observed (or predicted) long ago that our current relations were unsustainable. I won't comment much on what the Turks have done wrong, Racism is bad, and painting an entire nation with a single brush is not a smart move. But that is not my business or responsibility. I guess, my concern is with what the Pakistani side has done wrong. Please be mindful that i am by no means an expert, i am just expressing my opinions here. Feel free to add to the discussion if you must.

The current generation in Turkey is steadily moving towards irreligiousness and other forms of belief deviating from Islamic beliefs. Whereas Pakistanis are still knee-deep into their Islamic Identity. I'm not saying it's wrong to be Islamic, you ARE a muslim after all. But if you cannot respect others for thinking differently from yourself, you're going to ruin relations with them. Think of the Chinese in this regard, they are majorly non-muslims and most Pakistanis are aware of that; so we don't have such "expectations" from them. We want to get along with them even if they are non-muslims if there is mutual respect. Why not adopt the same demeanor with regards to Turks? (Although i don't think there's much left to salvage from the current situation. I honestly don't think things will recover between the two populace now that the blatant racism and witch-hunting on social media has started. But it IS a demeanor i think Pakistanis should adopt with all people around the world.

The Next aspect i would like to comment on is that, i don't think there is much solid basis on the formation of Pak-Turk relations in the past. I think i can now understand Jinnah's sentiments with regards to the Khilafet movement. There has always been some sort of propaganda done in swaying the opinions of South Asian muslims in favor of the Ottoman Empire in the past. Even when said Empire had been used by the British to make the South Asian Muslims more "complacent" with their colonizers. It was never really a two-way thing between Turks and Pakistanis as we had thought. Even when they got the support from South Asian Muslims, the so-called "Caliphate" they were trying to save, was still abolished by a Turk himself, and this person is a Turk the Turkish people hold in very high regard, Mustafa Kemal Ataturk. Now, i can understand why Turks like him, he saved his country. But i can also understand why Pakistanis don't respect him much, dudes you just got duped and used. What'd you expect? And now, badmouthing this public figure won't really do you much good either.

These relation seems to be akin to walking on egg shells in my opinion.

Similarly, Pakistanis need to better educate themselves on other people's sentiments and what their opinions are, in order to put yourself into better perspective, as to where you stand within such contexts. Erdogan is severely disliked in his country, just because he initiated some "muh bruhder fellow muslim country" bravado with Pak, doesn't make him worthy of all that respect. You're only further ruining your image by liking a public figure disliked within his own country. Turkish foreign Policy has always been to maintain friendly relations with Pakistan. Erdogan wasn't the first person and maybe, he won't be the last. Learn to read the room. But at the same time? why do you guys even bother with Turkey when it's not that mutual? The whole "Ertugrul" saga had me worried for this very reason, it has created some false perceptions of Turkish people amongst uneducated people in Pakistan. Maybe this is a blessing in disguise, who knows.

Pakistanis and Pan-Islamism:

Now, I'm going to talk about the Pan-Islamic attitude found within Pakistan's populace. We all know that Pakistan's identity is heavily influenced by muslim struggles in pre-partitioned subcontinent. However, i don't really think Pakistan is suppose to be the "Thekedar of Islam". There is a difference between a Nation created FOR muslim people as a refuge from oppression and a Nation created solely for Islam. Now, i won't argue what person said whatever in all those years ago, what Quaid said what the Ulema said. Think about it yourself, do you think Pakistanis even know what True Islam is? With the different interpretations of events and hadiths, don't you think people are going to start fighting on whose "Islam" is the correct one and whose is not? People from other nations don't have a Pan-Islamic attitude, so it would be wrong to force that down their throats. But at the same time, i don't think Pan-Islamism will work well within Pakistan either. I think it would give rise to religious intolerance, i already fear for non-muslims in my country. But if people tried to enforce their "version" of Islam on others, Muslims of this country will start to fight with each other too.

Also, this is also not limited to sects. In Pakistan, we have many "people" who try to use religion as a means to gain authority and power over the uneducated. It is these people i hate the most, they are ruining my people and making the innocent, intolerant and radical. And they know very well that they are fraudsters. If these people try to convince people that their version of "Islam" is the true one, and all others are Kafirs, won't that lead to bloodbath?

We can already see what's happening to our minorities. This type of bloodshed is ALREADY occurring within Pakistan. It honestly, fills me up with so much rage, how these people use religion to justify their wrong-doings. They end up ruining the image of Islam.

All of this has convinced me that religion should NOT be mixed in Politics in a country such as Pakistan. We aren't true muslims , frankly, we're the farthest thing from it when we try to pass off oppressive cultural norms as "Islam". So, unless Pakistanis turn into the perfect muslims overnight, i am against using Islam/Religion in politics in any shape or form. There's also another thing which has bothered me is that, These people aren't true believers, they don't fear any sort of Islamic punishments. They don't care about it. So why do you expect such people to adhere to Islamic principles correctly when they have no fear of God? It simply does not feel sustainable.

My Opinion:

I am of the opinion that, Pakistanis should overcome any prejudices we may have with one another, with regards to ethnicity, religion, or whatever else there is that we have a difference with. The reason why you are getting disrespected by foreigners today is because you lack respect for yourselves. You need to stop trying to make others like you, when you need to start liking your own people. I do not hate any type of Pakistani, whether they are from a different religion or race. They're my people and i should look out for them regardless. So please, we need to adopt this attitude with one another and stop with the leg-pullings. Be happier for the success of each other, and further encourage one another to become better and more successful. We need to become more tolerant to the differences of other's opinions'. I'm not sure if this makes me a nationalist, but i really don't give a f#ck about any other people other than my own. And i give them more priority over others. Learn your history well, and learn more about each other. Be more embracing and nice. It's not an easy thing to fight against yourself, but it needs to be done if we want our situation to improve . We also desperately need to improve our morals, and stop being so oppressive. I would've expanded on this section more but this post is already very lengthy and i'm tired of writing it.



These are my thoughts, feel free to add to the discussion if you want. I just wanted to rant and collect my thoughts. All of this sucks but eh, lets hope this is for the better. I want my countrymen to be better than this. May i add that i am indeed a part of the youth of this country and i am trying my best to spread such views with my peers. But Pakistan being such a intolerant place, especially in Public Places, you can't really speak in fear of someone losing their marbles and doing something to you :I

The truth is Pakistan itself is unnatural. We ourselves cannot answer "What is Pakistan?" without having a million different answers to that question. We tried to concoct some sort of "nationality" or "identity" by using Islam, Urdu, and Shalwar Kameez to somehow make people think all the groups in Pakistan were similar to each other and were "homogenous" before 1947. Even though the word Pakistan itself has never been historically mentioned anywhere.
 
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That map you posted of Turkey is bullshit. The big red is incorrect. It hides multiple mixed heritages who all have been lumped 'Turk'. By the wy the Kurds converge more with Baloch/Pashto languanges then with Turkish.
and also Pakistan map is complete BS
 
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A good example of this mixed nature of those who go as 'Turk' is Erdogan. He is actually of Georgian heritage.

Erdoğan was born in Kasımpaşa, a poor neighborhood of Istanbul, to which his family had moved from Rize Province in the 1930s.[33] Erdoğan's tribe is originally from Adjara, a region in Georgia. His parents were Ahmet Erdoğan (1905–88) and Tenzile Erdoğan (née Mutlu; 1924–2011).
[34]
 
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That's true, it will help the religious realize that there is no such union or harmony based on religion anymore and that will fuel nationalist feelings. But I also agree with OP in that Pakistanis have very unreasonable expectations from anyone who's a Muslim, we can't mind our own business.

The Muslim world is, ironically, becoming more and more racist and intolerant, Pakistan is probably one of the least racist nations in the world towards any race or religion, the intolerance only derives from religious differences. The faster we move towards Nationalism, the faster we will become more tolerant and more self centered, till then we will always be more occupied with what's happening elsewhere in regards to Islam rather than the issues we face domestically.

Its also because of Pakistanis doing pendu behavior in Istanbul and recording Turkish girls on tik tok?

 
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This problem is just a small symptom of bigger problems at home that need attention.

Also the culture and discourse that fetishizes Turkish women, I have never seen any Pakistani condemn this weird action.

 
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I agree, Erdogan has f#cked up big time , but the blame for this false perceptions created amongst Pakistanis lies with Imran Khan. He should've realized that our people are too immature to absorb such media in the way he had wanted them to.

How is that his fault?

Is it Erdogan's fault that the actress behind Haleema did an ad for Victoria's Secret and hoardes of Pakistanis were commenting and scolding her as if they were her daughter or sister :rofl:

Also what did you expect when you go to their lands illegally?

And record Turkish women on tik tok and marry 13 year olds and have kids with them. Like there's no condemnation from our side about this.


BS, Pak Turk relations are fine, people need to grow the fck up, get your head out of twitter and other brain rot social media. And you will be fine.

Pakistanis have to realize that the world is a cold, cruel place. Its all about interests.

The BIGGEST fallacy in Pakistani identity is to assume that non-Pakistani Muslims view Islam and Islamic unity/the Ummah with the same intense enthusiasm that Pakistani Muslims do. They don't. The Arabs/Palestinians, Iranians, Turks, Afghans, Somalians etc DON'T. They are all HIGHLY nationalistic whereas Pakistanis by and large are not. Pakistanis don't understand or realize this. The Turks are fast becoming a developed, high-tech advanced society with a booming economy. Also, the Turks are White. They want deeper ties and relations with Europe/the West. That is where Turks especially the younger ones see their future with. Why would they want anything to do with Pakistan and Pakistanis when we are one of the poorest countries in the world and have NO racial or cultural ties to Turkey? Pakistanis need to understand this reality.

Because Pakistani identity itself relies on Islam and Urdu to try to push some sort of comradery among its groups that frankly had nothing to do with each other before British rule. This results in extreme radicalization.

Fair point but why do so man Pakistanis always assume that non-Pakistani Muslim share the same enthusiasm for Islam and the Ummah when they all do not? It makes Pakistanis look retarded and undignified who are looking for acceptance and validation from non-Pakistanis......... :disagree:

Its because Pakistan itself has to rely on Islam to create an "identity"
 
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The truth is Pakistan itself is unnatural.
there's no such country like that isn't "unnatural" (in the sense you are using the word) in the world- you'll struggle to find one except for Europe (in the end they themselves are moving towards the powerful EU)
like it or not this is the best- religion, sea, shared river system and anyone not trying to turn minorities into Persians or Turks
this is the best well get
We ourselves cannot answer "What is Pakistan?"
This is the issue- there's no paint
 
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