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Pakistan's Mirage 2000 Saga

satishkumarcsc said:
Well the engines are totally different too...the Mirage III and Mirage V uses the ATAR 6C turbojet engine and the Mirage 2K uses the M-53P2 turbofan engine. There are alot of differences between the 2 aircraft.
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mirage 2000 that we r discussing uses a engines named m-88 i think.
Just go through this thread first. to know what we r talking about.
 
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Umair Nawaz said:
Read the thread first to know what exactly we r discussing then come back with yr wiki claims.:lol:
Click to expand...

Well i was responding to your claim that the Mirage 2000s uses M88 engine which it apparently dosent

And as you wanted a credible claim that M 53P2 is used by Mirage 2000

http://www.snecma.com/IMG/files/m53p2_ang_modulvoir_file_fr.pdf

The M53-P2 engine powers all the Mirage 2000
fighter aircraft, including the most recent
multirole versions Mirage 2000-5 and Mirage
2000-9. Chosen by 9 air forces on 4 continents,
the M53-P2 is appreciated by the pilots for its
exceptional handling characteristics due to full
authority digital engine control (FADEC)
An excerpt from the PDF that i posted above.

http://www.snecma.com/IMG/pdf/Brochure_Snecma_Gamme_Militaire_VA_OK.pdf

I just told you that Mirage 2000s dont use the M 88 engines.
 
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satishkumarcsc said:
Well i was responding to your claim that the Mirage 2000s uses M88 engine which it apparently dosent

And as you wanted a credible claim that M 53P2 is used by Mirage 2000

http://www.snecma.com/IMG/files/m53p2_ang_modulvoir_file_fr.pdf

The M53-P2 engine powers all the Mirage 2000
fighter aircraft, including the most recent
multirole versions Mirage 2000-5 and Mirage
2000-9. Chosen by 9 air forces on 4 continents,
the M53-P2 is appreciated by the pilots for its
exceptional handling characteristics due to full
authority digital engine control (FADEC)
An excerpt from the PDF that i posted above.

http://www.snecma.com/IMG/pdf/Brochure_Snecma_Gamme_Militaire_VA_OK.pdf

I just told you that Mirage 2000s dont use the M 88 engines.
Click to expand...

meri jan im not an avionics expert. ask this to that person who had said that. ur just wasting yr time with me as im a layman in this regard.
 
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MastanKhan said:
Sir,

It was not for a lack of money----but rather incompetence on the part of PAF in recognizing and analyzing the level of threat being posed.

PAF---out of sheer stupidity fell for india's ruse one more time---for the fake peace negotiations in the early part of 2000. India knew pak had funds to spend cash on aircraft---. The indians also knew---that given time---once the PAF's attention is diverted away from procurement in time----pakistani would---out of habbit---create situations destructive to themselves---.

That gamble worked very well for india---as a matter of fact---pakistan has never let india down when it comes to failing to achieve its goals.
Click to expand...
If its true then hats off to the Indian Foriegn Policy Makers......BTW if i am not wrong then In early part of 2000 Pakistan was under santions....
 
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Umair Nawaz said:
meri jan im not an avionics expert. ask this to that person who had said that. ur just wasting yr time with me as im a layman in this regard.
Click to expand...

Sorry I was countering cb4's claim that as you were already having the capability for the Mirage III rebuild factory and overhaul facility so he told like Pakistan can used the Mirage 2k...whcih i refuted.
 
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could be possible since the F-16 and their spares/MLU's situation has been edgy with the US/Pak defense negotiations i believe Turkey has been upgrading the PAF's F-16's. but then again the PAF is inducting more modern (not saying more capable) JF-17 and J-10 fighters aren't they.?
 
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Ah here we go again!!
Its like people are not satisfied with keeping Mastan Khan quiet!!!!!
So afew facts here. People have raged on about the Qatari M2Ks. Well PAF would not have gone for 12 planes alone-- would it? Secondly did anyone consider that the French might have had some objections.
Secondly just to get the record straight PAF WAS NOT LOOKING AT THE QATARI MIRAGES but at 54 french examples . The deal comprised of enough spares to keep us going for a long time.PAF took a decision based on their thinking that since F16option wasopening up it would be a much better option to go for them rather than develop new iinfrastructure for a plane which India hasoperated for 2 decades and knows very well.
Another factor to consider is the supply chain w hich has discontinued and the running cost of the plane.
 
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The truth is, PAF never had enough funds to even purchase 2 squadrons of Mirage 2000s back in the 80s. The process went on for nearly 20 years. I know a lot of pilots who went to France for trials on Mirages but the Government of Pakistan never gave the garantee to the french for the payment.

Thanks to $400 Million Saudi loan which enabled PAF to place order for F-16s but thats a completely different story. Hence the pickle of the purchase of Qatari Mirages was and is only a wish of the fans. But yes i wished that too.
 
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airomerix said:
The truth is, PAF never had enough funds to even purchase 2 squadrons of Mirage 2000s back in the 80s. The process went on for nearly 20 years. I know a lot of pilots who went to France for trials on Mirages but the Government of Pakistan never gave the garantee to the french for the payment.

Thanks to $400 Million Saudi loan which enabled PAF to place order for F-16s but thats a completely different story. Hence the pickle of the purchase of Qatari Mirages was and is only a wish of the fans. But yes i wished that too.
Click to expand...

There is atime and place for purchase of equipment. What I pointed to was 2002-3.PAF has evaluated M2Ks on at least 3 occasions that i know of . By 2002 mainline production had seized and a lot of AF were retiring them due to lack of spares. I was also one of those who wished to see M2Ks in a naval role. However rightly so I think by that time the time of n2ks had come and gone
 
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INDIAISM said:
If its true then hats off to the Indian Foriegn Policy Makers......BTW if i am not wrong then In early part of 2000 Pakistan was under santions....
Click to expand...


Hi,

Sanctions were only from u s---pakistan was free to buy from france or any other country---. Next---the moment pak agreed to assist in the afg operation---the sanctions were a moot point----.

Pak should have demanded an immediate U S presidential order to cancel sanctions and deliver two to three sqdrn's of F16's within the first 12 months of alliance---.

The procurement from france is meant for french equipment and not mirage 2k only----.

PAF was not mentally prepared if there would ever be lifting of sanctions----that is why they fell on their faces---.

The moment 9/11 happened---and u s request came in for assistance----paf should have had an assessment team to place an immediate order for the much needed aircraft.

As a matter of fact---that assessment should already have been in place for a 5 years rotation---meaning----it would be accepted that the sanctions would be lifted after a certain time---and as paf would have analyzed what was needed---they would avail the oppurtunity right away.

After 9/11----pakistani coffers were overflowing with cash that pak had never seen or imagined before---. Everybody started offering their product to pak air force----and that is where pak air force screwed up big time---. They got confused and started to jump from one platform to the other.

Please remember one thing---if he country does not have cash available or the resource----no nation lets you test their aircraft as PAF did----.

So---whomsoever says that pak had no cash---are totally clueless to how the industry operates----.

If you have a new car showroom----would you let someone broke and penniless come and drive your cars all the time and assess them. None would----it is the same way with aircraft industry or any other item.

araz said:
There is atime and place for purchase of equipment. What I pointed to was 2002-3.PAF has evaluated M2Ks on at least 3 occasions that i know of . By 2002 mainline production had seized and a lot of AF were retiring them due to lack of spares. I was also one of those who wished to see M2Ks in a naval role. However rightly so I think by that time the time of n2ks had come and gone
Click to expand...

Hi,

Oh yeah---and then they go ahead and buy the saab 2000 that is out of production----and then they realized that as there will be a shortage of parts and supplies---and pak public finds out we have screwed up again---we let the trrorsits destroy the planes----. PAF is way ahead of anyone---indeed---hehhhn.
 
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F-16's are as capable as Mirage 2000, so I don't understand where is the problem?
 
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PROBLEM is F16 are sanctioned threatened.

INDIA is now a very close friend of USA they (the usa) wil do what they can to HANDICAP/sabotage the F16 programme during a war situation.

HANDICAP means no spares/ no servicing/ no strike weaopons when PAF run out.

THE are some who claim THE F16/52 have restrictions from which bases they operate from.

MIRAGE2000 WOULD NOT HAVE HAD these sanctions threats
 
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