Pakistan's intelligence failure at controlling domestic narratives effectively and poor information warfare

[313ghazi]

Why is Pakistan failing so badly at controlling its own domestic narrative of its own audience?

Let's make a comparison between Israel and Pakistan - Israel is quite literally committing a genocide and their entire population is defending and supporting it. On the contrary Pakistan has utterly failed to effectively peddle a single narrative to even its own citizens - let alone international propaganda.

There's a lot to learn with how Israel shapes its population to always stand by their national interests despite what the world may think, even India does this well nowadays. A natural level of homegrown nationalism is like the health bar of every nation.

If you even go online there's absolutely zero counter to the propaganda being spread against it online. It's like Pakistan doesn't have its own professional info-network of pro-Pakistan/establishment narratives to weaken enemy/terrorist group narratives - on the contrary even Afghan Taliban has a decently strong network and leverages weird diaspora Islamists to give it a boost.

I found this interview online of someone with interactions with the ISI, even he mentions that Pakistan ignorantly neglects a lot of critical areas like soft power, and effective information warfare, etc, in comparison to India.

Forget even external enemies, it even struggles countering internal terrorist group propaganda in all domains.

I think there needs to be significant structural reforms done and a review. If you cannot control domestic narrative among your own citizens then that's a huge negative sign.

Pakistan is clearly weak in its intelligence apparatus structure - it should send teams for training to Turkey and perhaps China. You could learn a lot by co-operating with the Turks since they deal with a Kurdish insurgency so they'll have a lot of effective strategies/counter-measures to share, especially with the similarities here in Pakistan.

@PanzerKiel @RescueRanger @Signalian @Areesh @Goritoes @adnanhassan885 @_NOBODY_

When was the last time Israel treated ethnically European Jews badly? They are basically who/what Israel is - and Israel treats them very well.

Pakistan treats Pakistani's no different to how an invading colonial force would - who's gonna buy their BS. Even a forum like this, a total pro military circle jerk (of which i was a participant) has had the majority of members come to realise that our governments and armed forces are not representative of us, rather they are almost like occupiers.

You can't narrative away poverty, abductions, murder, illegal arrests, lack of education, lack of basic infrastructure, lack of economic opportunity. Even dictatorship only works when people have the basic neccesities and don't feel a need for change.

Why would you believe someone who is brazenly screwing you over on a daily basis. They say one thing and do another. It impacts every facet of your life. You'd have to be an utter moron to trust that person. Like actually brain dead.

 

[PakAlp]

When Pakistan was created Allama Iqbal made it very clear that Pakistan ideology is Islam and Pakistan is an Islamic state, a welfare state, a state that will look towards Islam for guidance, it will build the Islamic civilisation, a moderate state which gives rights to all, justice to all, looks after the weak, brings people together. When has our state or state institutions ever promoted this. They always work on the orders of foreign masters, select leaders due to foreign pressure, topple governments, promote religious extremism, then extreme secularism. All this leads to hatred and division within the nation.

Today Pakistan is only together because of the army danda but why? The people after 70 years should be happily living together, should be loyal to their state but the state institutions through their corruption and betrayal divided us.

Look at Bangladeshi war and the blunders committed. First elections were held, then when Mujib Rehman won the elections, the state wouldn't allow the assembly session to be held, this created hatred and division, then they arrested Mujib Rehman who was actually the PM due to winning, more hatred and division was created, then they released him and sent him to Bangladesh but still wouldn't allow the assemblies to sit, then military operations started and we all know what happened next. If he was a traitor then how did the agencies and policy makers loose the narrative battle with him? It was a clear failure and blunder and they on top made the situation worse.

Dealing with the Balochis and KPK people is the same, they rule them with danda and through sardars but why after 70 years we could not unite the nation. Someone out there is making major blunders. They say people want their own state or are traitors but what have you done to win the people over, oppressing them is not the solution, it makes the situation worse, when have the people been given justice, security, education, rights?

Moving to Imran Khan, we can hate him but after decades for the first time our military and civilian leadership was on the same page, PTI held conferences in all cities of Pakistan and promoted Pakistan is our state and Pakistan is for all narrative. This made Pakistani youth be proud of Pakistan, a change was on its way on narrative building.
Now we witness the same Imran Khan and 10,000 supporters in jail, 100s of fake cases on them. If they are traitors then how did they reach so high in to power in the first place, isn't this a big failure? They placed 200 fake cases on IK? Doesn't that make it obvious that they're all fake. Nawaz Sharif was declared corrupt and removed from power but now since he's back for some reason all cases are being cleared for him, isnt it obvious a game being played. At times a leader is regarding as a hero but then a traitor, this same play has been repeated 10s of times.

If you add all this together, we can clearly see why Pakistan has lost its way, today Pakistan is still together because our army is strong, if it wasn't then we would be the next Libya or Syria but the big question is how did our state end up loosing the narrative war? Who is responsible? After 70 years we could not build a nation and can only rule by force. The rulers have clearly failed, they could not provide security and justice to the people, judiciary, police, state institutes are all corrupt. How can the people be happy and proud.

 

[Mithubajwa]

Pakistan is still together because our army is strong

This sentence annoys the f out of every Pakistani Now.
1. Pakistan is split into 2 because of a drunk general refusing to get ZA Bhutto and mujeed their true mandate..
2. Pakistan is broke because we went and became part of Western block and Soviets were pissed came into Afghanistan. Pakistan could never recover from Afghan war. It gave us few cancers.
Zia and total military control of every aspect of PAKISTANI life
Afghan Refugees ,
Destroyed begger economy,
Kashmir and Afghan JIHAD resulting in gun culture
Nawaz sharif showbaz sharif khoja Asif and company.
DHA.

 

[PakAlp]

You have made excellent points. The state and it's narratives form the basis of everything from national identity to national security and we are severely lagging in this regard. We need to aggressively counter anti state narratives domestically and anti Pakistan narratives internationally. Collaboration, like you suggested, with the PRC will prove very effective (provided they are willing) since the CCP has absolute control over absolutely everything domestically.

We failed because of our own faults, the faults by our state institutes. When the state institutes cannot give justice to the people, when people properties are overtaken by mafias, judiciary, police and all government institutes are corrupt, people are kidnapped, fake cases are placed on them, dirty videos are made, people stripped naked, private phone calls recorded, governments are toppled, leaders are exiled and then given a hero welcome. How can a narrative be promoted? Even if the same is done in China, India or USA, they would have major internal problems.

This sentence annoys the f out of every Pakistani Now.
1. Pakistan is split into 2 because of a drunk general refusing to get ZA Bhutto and mujeed their true mandate..
2. Pakistan is broke because we went and became part of Western block and Soviets were pissed came into Afghanistan. Pakistan could never recover from Afghan war. It gave us few cancers.
Zia and total military control of every aspect of PAKISTANI life
Afghan Refugees ,
Destroyed begger economy,
Kashmir and Afghan JIHAD resulting in gun culture
Nawaz sharif showbaz sharif khoja Asif and company.
DHA.

The statement doesn't mean the military is correct, just shows if they were weak then another Bangladesh would happen. But the issue is a great failure lead us to the situation when you have to use military oppression to keep the nation together.

 

[Enigma SIG]

You'd have to be an utter moron to trust that person. Like actually brain dead.

DHA invested in morons since time immemorial and now they have cordycep infested dead people salivating and saluting gernailistan. Sadly for the rest of this dajjal infested vassal state these morons are the majority.

 

[Khan_patriot]

We failed because of our own faults, the faults by our state institutes. When the state institutes cannot give justice to the people, when people properties are overtaken by mafias, judiciary, police and all government institutes are corrupt, people are kidnapped, fake cases are placed on them, dirty videos are made, people stripped naked, private phone calls recorded, governments are toppled, leaders are exiled and then given a hero welcome. How can a narrative be promoted? Even if the same is done in China, India or USA, they would have major internal problems.

I do agree with the essence of what you've said but the thing is, the same or arguably worse things happen in each and every country that has or will exist. We need to get our house in order on numerous fronts and reclaiming the masses' temporal front should be somewhere among the top priorities along with economic, security, political and other aspects which aren't mutually exclusive and making head way in one domain will have positive effects across the board.

 

[313ghazi]

I do agree with the essence of what you've said but the thing is, the same or arguably worse things happen in each and every country that has or will exist. We need to get our house in order on numerous fronts and reclaiming the masses' temporal front should be somewhere among the top priorities along with economic, security, political and other aspects which aren't mutually exclusive and making head way in one domain will have positive effects across the board.

I really doesn't. The level of shithousery in Pakistan is unique to a handful of the worst run countries in the world.

 

[Enigma SIG]

I really doesn't. The level of shithousery in Pakistan is unique to a handful of the worst run countries in the world.

Pakistan is on another level of retardation.

 

[Mithubajwa]

Must watch. He mentioned exactly what I got in pic... That's crazy

 

[hydrabadi_arab]

Israel is settler colonial state committing genocide against indigenous population to take their land.

Meanwhile in Pakistan establishment is busy fighting its own citizens to gain more and more resources for generals and their ilk. More DHAs plots etc

If Israel establishment was fighting its own citizens then local support will not be there either.

 

[Mithubajwa]

DUNGERS ORGANIZED BY DUFFERS.

If this is a protest organized by markhoor... No wonder why the brain quality have fallen to shatters...
This is a joke for a protest... It's like someone got them wired to buttons.
You press button bearded man speaks ...
If you have little bit of education you can figure out why Pakistan army ain't what it use to be...
It's a laughing stock now ..

Wow just wow...

 

[teX]

it should send teams for training to Turkey and perhaps China.

o pai. maf kr de bhai. china training se pehly hi halat kharab ki hue hy baad mein pata nai kia ho ga...

 

[nahtanbob]

That's pretty much diversity. More than Pakistan. Slavic Caucuses and Germanic Jews are mostly semi-distant. Pakistanis are almost entirely Indo-Iranic.

A European Jew is not going to be mistreated by Israeli state. Is a Indo-Iranic Pakistani going to be treated fairly by Pakistani state ?

look at india... it is rotten to the core yet western boobs have positive image till they actually get to know indians

India's image is positive compared to Pakistan. Is it positive compared to Italy. Nope.

For starters outsiders do not deal with all of India. They deal with the educated elite in government, technology and business. They like what they see. When Indian airliner places an order for 500 Boeing jetliners the cash rolls in. When Indians code software for Cisco and Microsoft the executives in America see the projects. That ain't image. That is reality.

If India is rotten in any area Pakistan is equally rotten or worse in the same area. Name the area - sanitation, sexual harassment, rape, religious intolerance, economic inequality, political freedom.

 

[adnanhassan885]

i believe low value people with no nationalism are running Pakistan. Public have realized that Pak mil is incompetent and corrupt and they don't want to end terrorism, as we saw in Swat protest, and are believing in Manzoor Pashteen propaganda instead of the Pak military.

The day they put Imran in jail, a young guy told me he felt as sad as if someone had died. how deeply the younger generation cares for him. inflation filled in the rest of the gap.

Even if they speak the truth with their butt on hot stove, people won't believe them.

 

[TheSolution]

i believe low value people with no nationalism are running Pakistan. Public have realized that Pak mil is incompetent and corrupt and they don't want to end terrorism, as we saw in Swat protest, and are believing in Manzoor Pashteen propaganda instead of the Pak military.

The day they put Imran in jail, a young guy told me he felt as sad as if someone had died. how deeply the younger generation cares for him. inflation filled in the rest of the gap.

Even if they speak the truth with their butt on hot stove, people won't believe them.

Putting Imran Khan in jail was close to suicide.

And yes the intentions of the top leadership are very questionable about who's interests they really have in mind and if they actually care about the country.

But one thing is certain is that they are duffers and incompetent, they do a poor job and that too only the bare minimum while neglecting a whole load of other important areas