Pakistan's Hatf 9 promoted as a counter to India's Prahaar

[Contrarian]

Is there an academic/scholarly/research based proof or its just your own assumption?

All of the above.
The main factor ends up being Pakistans lack of funds.

 

[Ankit_Pujari]

@Ankit_Pujari The same has been posted and refuted here a number of times . Some suspected militant links have nothing to do with battlefield nuke , your blogs have to come a long way before they can understand these complex things without relying on dozen news links from different source to make sense of something and twist things up to support their radical theory .

Sweet. Anyone who is in lesser denial that you, Sir, would recognise the fact that there is something seriously wrong with the the officer Corps of the pakistan Army, with regards to its jihadi tendencies, if no successor can be found to relive Lt Gen Khalid Kidwai, who has been the head custodian of pakistan's "jewels" right from the the time of the NCA's inception, long after it is time for him to hang up his boots.

Those incidences cited in the blog posts, along with appointments, or rather the lack of appointments in Kidwai's case, requires one to join the dots, to come to a conclusion. You're petrified of the doing so, because in the bottom of your heart, you know, we're in agreement . Just that I have the freedom to express it, & you do not

Expectedly, it would go against the biases you demonstrate, but this is by one of your own, an ex-pak Mil
Understanding Each Other, Diversity and Dissent: Assessment of Officers and Military Training-Pakistan Army

While all you tried to refute was the creeping radicalization in the pak military, you don't have the luxuary of refuting the thoughtlessness & ineffectiveness of deploying NASR. The Science, unitary that it is, simply shows the NASR to be nothing more than a showcase exhibit.

 

[xyxmt]

Thats not where the biggest threat will be.
That will be at Lahore and nearby areas.

you guys have no idea how many people in pakistan have hang grenades and rocket launchers

 

[Slayer786]

Yeh! Lets keep arguing who can destroy who first. LOL.

No one realizes the destruction the nuclear missiles will cause will badly effect everyone. No one will be a winner.
But who cares? Lets just denigrate each other's missiles.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

This missile will primarily be used in Rajasthan Sindh Desert areas.

I agree with ur observations,however just 60 kms from frontline in open desert areas these launchers will be very visible from satellites,aircraft and drones and highly vulnerable to saturation strikes by MBRL or airstrike by stand off PGM both of which can have higher range.
In total, i agree however that in ground war nothing of significance will take place and no side can 'win'.

 

[The Deterrent]

Wrong!

Nasr was developed after the intelligence reports confirmed Parhaar's development. India had been developing Parhaar since long, we needed a better system to counter it. Nasr was the answer.

Woah woah! You are way off the mark here.

BTW more Pakistani resources will be spent on this. More stress on their economy.

Jeez! Enough with this economy straining already!
We have an established military-industrial base for these missiles..

@OT
Before comparing Prahaar with Nasr with respect to range, please try to understand that Nasr was DESIGNED to be of lesser range, so that its flight time is reduced thus giving minimum reaction time and apogee for the theatre BMDs. Also since the launch vehicle is small, it is easy to blend it in with other vehicles on the battlefield, unlike those huge MAZ-543-type TELs.

 

[KRAIT]

you guys have no idea how many people in pakistan have hang grenades and rocket launchers

Sort of news coming off lately is giving pretty close idea.

 

[Kompromat]

@AhaseebA

I read a paper by Zahir Kazmi from NDU. It stated that Parhaar had been in development before Nasr.

It also oulines the deployment doctrines and potential usage scenarios. So i'm not off the mark on this one.

 

[Contrarian]

you guys have no idea how many people in pakistan have hang grenades and rocket launchers

Thats not the point. IA would not enter the city to get into street battles in any case. Most likely it will be bypassed but the Lines of communication would be through that area.

Clearing the city takes nothing more than 10 bombs dropped by IAF planes on the city.
If they had to capture Lahore, odds are they'd bomb it badly so the civilians flee the city and the remaining ones who are definitely combatants can be killed outright. No major street to street battles. The idea would be to make as many people leave as possible into Pakistan controlled lands, not keep them and govern them.

 

[Secur]

Sweet. Anyone who is in lesser denial that you, Sir, would recognise the fact that there is something seriously wrong with the the officer Corps of the pakistan Army, with regards to its jihadi tendencies, if no successor can be found to relive Lt Gen Khalid Kidwai, who has been the head custodian of pakistan's "jewels" right from the the time of the NCA's inception, long after it is time for him to hang up his boots.

Those incidences cited in the blog posts, along with appointments, or rather the lack of appointments in Kidwai's case, requires one to join the dots, to come to a conclusion. You're petrified of the doing so, because in the bottom of your heart, you know, we're in agreement . Just that I have the freedom to express it, & you do not

Expectedly, it would go against the biases you demonstrate, but this is by one of your own, an ex-pak Mil
Understanding Each Other, Diversity and Dissent: Assessment of Officers and Military Training-Pakistan Army

While all you tried to refute was the creeping radicalization in the pak military, you don't have the luxuary of refuting the thoughtlessness & ineffectiveness of deploying NASR. The Science, unitary that it is, simply shows the NASR to be nothing more than a showcase exhibit.

Do you by any chance , study the history in isolation ? I am well aware of the radicalization in the society resulting from the decade long war in Afghanistan fought with little thought by the then Zia-ul-Haq and its effect till today amplified by the half-hearted participation in the war on terror , it isn't unimaginable that some of its effects must have affected the military too , but fortunately from time to time , it has taken steps to ensure that such elements are isolated and punishment in the form of courtmartials are meted out to them . I also said that a few suspected militant links military personnel nabbed from here and there , make no difference to the overall army of my country and neither to its capability . Why would it ? Has someone on the top post been arrested for " links with extremists " ? If the answer is no , then you are wasting your energy on conspiracy theory trying to prove something which isn't even related to this . I would have recognized the fact if it has been such , just because there hasn't been a new appointment to the top post of National Command Authority , doesn't mean that there's a problem with the Officer Corps itself which may itself have a dozen of different reasons , nothing to do with your wild running speculations and imaginations .

That is the problem , isn't it ? Blogs are the last source , I would take as credible since they usually are a single person's opinion and are without source and the source used to support one's opinion is the same " blog " here collecting news from all over and then trying to connect the dots , where there are none . Now , there are news items which I have already explained and then there's the nuclear weapons falling in the hand of extremist ( God-knows-how ? ) threat exaggerated beyond all limits ( for building paranoia ) , one can speak of that like child's play if one doesn't have the darn knowledge about the complexity of the the security involved in it . Even if a rogue element was to get hold of nuke , though it itself is a sheer impossibility with the personnel involved in the process , it isn't possible to breach the security and allow for launch or detonation . So , unfortunately , a few caught and punished low level people and Mr.Qidwai's staying put at his post isn't making any case but rather as I first hinted - making and propagating a conspiracy theory for which there's no basis , none at all .

I am not interested in discussing the effectiveness and usage and the outcome of the battle field nuclear weapons , for it has been done before to ad infinitum and ad nauseam , you may want to visit a few related threads before awarding your biased and childish verdict of " showcase exhibit " so quickly . But I can assure you , of one thing , Pakistan didn't test Nasr , initiated the " miniaturization " of nukes and signaled its thresholds were going down further for no reason . The next thing is that Islamabad will not give two hoots about any Indian nuclear doctrine if its thresholds are crossed or if its existence or integrity is in danger , just like the last four times where the deterrence has worked . You have tested our resolve before and well withdrawn all times , after we went nuclear . Last , the Indians are constrained and contribute to the continuity of Pakistani deterrence by their own rigid doctrine , since it asks them to retaliate massively prompting the adversary to do the same and thus making sure that the border isn't crossed in the first place because of the MAD risk , a " flexible response " would have been a different game altogether here though . Remember the dilemma of " continue , risk a billion or retreat , save a billion " after the initial nuclear strike with a TNW ? You have a lot of reading to do before simply declaring something useless , boy .

 

[xyxmt]

Thats not the point. IA would not enter the city to get into street battles in any case. Most likely it will be bypassed but the Lines of communication would be through that area.

Clearing the city takes nothing more than 10 bombs dropped by IAF planes on the city.
If they had to capture Lahore, odds are they'd bomb it badly so the civilians flee the city and the remaining ones who are definitely combatants can be killed outright. No major street to street battles. The idea would be to make as many people leave as possible into Pakistan controlled lands, not keep them and govern them.

do you like in the city of Ahmaqs, do you think you will live to see the day if you Bomb Lahore
stop giving these childish arguments

 

[Water Car Engineer]

@AhaseebA

I read a paper by Zahir Kazmi from NDU. It stated that Parhaar had been in development before Nasr.

It also oulines the deployment doctrines and potential usage scenarios. So i'm not off the mark on this one.

It wasnt in development for a long time really. AAD(where Prahaar branched off from) interceptor missile was first tested in 2007, Prahaar was first tested in 2011.

They had to validate AAD first, which took more tests. Prahaar system was developed very quickly.

 

[The Deterrent]

@AhaseebA

I read a paper by Zahir Kazmi from NDU. It stated that Parhaar had been in development before Nasr.

It also oulines the deployment doctrines and potential usage scenarios. So i'm not off the mark on this one.

I didn't come across anything like you mentioned, in the paper. Can you please point out the page and line no.?

The author has considered only the TNW role of Prahaar. The very clear indication that Prahaar will be handled by IA's Artillery Corps implies that it won't be used for delivering nukes. If that was the case, the SFC personnel would be there to witness (although we should wait for the user trials in the next couple of years to be sure). Also let me quote some lines from that paper:

If deployed against its 3,380-kilometres(35) border with China, it may provoke Beijing and add to the arms race in short-range ballistic missiles too.

Beijing already has loads of tactical BMs (SY-400, BP-12, DF-11).

Seven, specifying minimum range as 50 kilometres is significant in the sense that a vertically fired missile can fall back at the launch site too.

Seriously?

Such arguments indicate that Pakistan and India did not develop the SRBMs in reaction to other‘s similar capability; only the flight-testing of Prahaar was a reaction to the Nasr test.

But @Aeronaut you were saying something else ???

 

[Contrarian]

do you like in the city of Ahmaqs, do you think you will live to see the day if you Bomb Lahore
stop giving these childish arguments

Whats Ahmaqs?

 

[F.O.X]

Those days of Army crossing and then PA responding are gone.
We are invested massively in missiles. Before the Army crosses PA cants and bases would be bombed heavily by all kinds of munitions and missiles.

And Pakistan does not have a wide or good coverage of SAM's to prevent that.

Ahh !, How much you underestimate us , it is quite comforting .. anyways Good luck in that .