Pakistan's Hatf 9 promoted as a counter to India's Prahaar

[Alpha1]

and those who think that nassr will cause considerable fallout in Pakistani territory are in delusion
FYI IT will be an airburst which maximizes blast effects and minimizes fallout and in case of a 2kt airburst at the height of 70 m the fallout is negligible.
and incase it detonates at a height of 80m 500 rem radiation dose; will spread on an area of (2.78 km²) which is lethal for ordinary troops

 

[Secur]

Now you are putting great belief into the threat of nuclear strike. There have been opportunities for India to scuttle the nuclear program itself. You would be aware of the Morarji Desai loose lips case. India was very sure that Pakistan did not have a weapon then.


Pakistan occupied Kargil. People did not go nuclear then.
India militarized Siachin. Pakistan did not go nuclear.
There are always thresholds that cause you to go nuclear. Your threshold might be different, but there will be some level of damage that causes pain, but not so much pain to go all crazy.

That is the prevalent opinion about Operation Brasstacks in Pakistan which is supported by the statement of Indian commanders and independent defense analysts , since the operation itself was the " mobilization of the entire army of India " and in your own Hoon's word " a plan to build an atmosphere for a fourth war with Pakistan " , now that isn't my belief by any chance . That the Govt of Pakistan warned the Indian Govt of going nuclear in case of a blitzkrieg like attack isn't my belief either , yes it happened back then . If you want , I will post the references/statements over here from what happened in '87 . There have been opportunities sure to dismantle the country's nuclear program , after India dismissed Islamabad's proposal for remaining non nuclear and thus not not starting the race in the first place , but then , Pakistan was in a position and had the conventional capability to effectively attack and neutralize the Indian nuclear facilities too and that acted as an deterrent , because we both didn't have enough nuclear facilities back then . There were joint India-Israel joint plans for attacking Kahuta but were put to cold storage after New Delhi realized the damage to itself in that case , the loss of its own nuclear program or if not setback their efforts for a long time , though Tel Aviv persisted to ask the Indian to provide them bases for a unilateral operation in desperation , anyways Pakistan was a world's hero for fighting against communism in Afghanistan at that time and there was no way that the Americans were going to allow or tolerate that Mischief , there was again no love for Pakistan or peace desire involved from Indians as many of you talk about .

Kirana Hills - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Read it , the whole world knew in secret that we had a nuclear program running under the umbrella of American half hearted's permission to continue it , since they needed us to deal with the Soviets on the other side of the Khyber Pass .

What you do not realize about Kargil is that all the fighting took place in Indian controlled territory , the Govt of India strongly forbade the Indian Army from crossing over even the Line of Control , forget the International border . The nuclear deterrent had acted again , there was a risk of escalation by crossing over LOC though the Indian commanders could have cut their losses in half simply by attacking the supply lines across the border and they strongly asked for it , they weren't allowed to do that . Now , ponder over the reason . The Pakistan Army was never occupying Siachen , it was a barren no man's land and strategically futile , nothing more and anyways , we weren't a nuclear power in '84 . Yes , I have explained that Pakistan will not pull the nuclear trigger at the drop of a hat , but when one or more of its thresholds are crossed by any means , that is the deal , our thresholds are naturally low for obvious reasons - a compensation for conventional disparity and geographical vulnerability . The argument of take ' adversary's assurance and let it invade you ' is childish and funny , the idea that CSD is guaranteed to not cross any of the country's thresholds is based on ignorance , there's no way to know anyone's intentions now , is there ?

 

[xyxmt]

I live in south most part of India, I will live to see but I wont be able to tell the story to any pakistani. Now what?

So you will nuke India if a single bomb fall on Lahore? Lots of kids around these days.

now you changing your stance, I read something like a dozen bombs will level Lahore for you..something US couldnt do with 1000 bombs to Baghdad including the mother of all bombs while India Pehalwan is going to do it with a dozen bombs. read your original post and decide who is more childish.

 

[PoKeMon]

now you changing your stance, I read something like a dozen bombs will level Lahore for you..something US couldnt do with 1000 bombs to Baghdad including the mother of all bombs while India Pehalwan is going to do it with a dozen bombs. read your original post and decide who is more childish.

Any conventional shelling on any city wont trigger any nuke war.

And yes, IAF bombing any city will force the civilians to leave for safer place, no rocket science in it. If PAF could not come to rescue, its the only pragmatic way.

 

[xyxmt]

Any conventional shelling on any city wont trigger any nuke war.

And yes, IAF bombing any city will force the civilians to leave for safer place, no rocket science in it. If PAF could not come to rescue, its the only pragmatic way.

ok dreamer i got nothing to say

 

[Srinivas]

Any conventional shelling on any city wont trigger any nuke war.

And yes, IAF bombing any city will force the civilians to leave for safer place, no rocket science in it. If PAF could not come to rescue, its the only pragmatic way.

Pakistan uses nukes when Indian forces invade Pakistan's territory , that too on their own territory. This is their doctrine. They know if they hit any Indian territory with nukes then retaliation will be in big way.

 

[indiatester]

There have been opportunities sure to dismantle the country's nuclear program , after India dismissed Islamabad's proposal for remaining non nuclear and thus not not starting the race in the first place , but then , Pakistan was in a position and had the conventional capability to effectively attack and neutralize the Indian nuclear facilities too and that acted as an deterrent , because we both didn't have enough nuclear facilities back then . There were joint India-Israel joint plans for attacking Kahuta but were put to cold storage after New Delhi realized the damage to itself in that case , the loss of its own nuclear program or if not setback their efforts for a long time , though Tel Aviv persisted to ask the Indian to provide them bases for a unilateral operation in desperation , anyways

If that was true then, it is true now to some extent. Given the extent of Indian armed forces consolidation, I can understand a case where India gets in 40 kms in a few sectors before Pakistan can bog it down with conventional forces without going nuclear. It might as well happen for India too as was witnessed in Kargil and India did not go nuclear.

What you do not realize about Kargil is that all the fighting took place in Indian controlled territory , the Govt of India strongly forbade the Indian Army from crossing over even the Line of Control , forget the International border . The nuclear deterrent had acted again , there was a risk of escalation by crossing over LOC though the Indian commanders could have cut their losses in half simply by attacking the supply lines across the border and they strongly asked for it , they weren't allowed to do that . Now , ponder over the reason . The Pakistan Army was never occupying Siachen , it was a barren no man's land and strategically futile , nothing more and anyways , we weren't a nuclear power in '84 . Yes , I have explained that Pakistan will not pull the nuclear trigger at the drop of a hat , but when one or more of its thresholds are crossed by any means , that is the deal , our thresholds are naturally low for obvious reasons - a compensation for conventional disparity and geographical vulnerability . The argument of take ' adversary's assurance and let it invade you ' is childish and funny , the idea that CSD is guaranteed to not cross any of the country's thresholds is based on ignorance , there's no way to know anyone's intentions now , is there ?

I do know that all the Kargil fighting took place in Indian territory. My argument is that it was still in a tolerable intrusion into India and India did not go nuclear.

I didn't initially understand this part of your logic
Pakistan crosses over into Indian territory and not calculate a nuclear retaliation, but
India crosses over into Pakistani territory and expect a nuclear retaliation just because it has Nasr.

Now that you clarify that it is not going to be at the drop of a hat but at that threshold. That is my argument against the use of Nasr or its insurance potential. CSD or whatever can still happen in that tolerable limit where nuclear option won't be used by Pakistan.

Now when that limit is reached, Nasr is going to be of little use. You can as well go all nuclear with an all out attack as you can very well expect a massive retaliation based on India's doctrine.

My case: Your nuclear weapons are a deterrence, not Nasr.
PA can't just use Nasr and expect no retaliation. Hence using Nasr makes PA the initiator of the nuclear conflict and not India.
Hence Nasr is not an insurance. A threat of an all out Nuclear war is.

 

[PoKeMon]

Pakistan uses nukes when Indian forces invade Pakistan's territory , that too on their own territory. This is their doctrine. They know if they hit any Indian territory with nukes then retaliation will be in big way.

The problem is fanboys regards their armies as some ready to die and full of bravado, while the truth is they do fear and they do love their existence and their family existence.

That's the reason why 90K chose to surrender than to die in 71, but then ask any pakistani here and they will say we are ready to get killed if they can kill even 25% of India. That's high talks.

ok dreamer i got nothing to say

So what you think, you dont feel the fear?

Dont forget, 90K chose to surrender than to die as brave martyrs in 71. Its human nature mate, even Indians would have done the same, no shame in accepting.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

ok dreamer i got nothing to say

Well, you really have had NOTHING to say for a HELLUVA long time.
But just woke upto it now........
Which is good.

 

[Srinivas]

The problem is fanboys regards their armies as some ready to die and full of bravado, while the truth is they do fear and they do love their existence and their family existence.

That's the reason why 90K chose to surrender than to die in 71, but then ask any pakistani here and they will say we are ready to get killed if they can kill even 25% of India. That's high talks.

So what you think, you dont feel the fear?

Dont forget, 90K chose to surrender than to die as brave martyrs in 71. Its human nature mate, even Indians would have done the same, no shame in accepting.

True !!!

The surrender of 1971 has to do with Indian thinking also.

1971 war is a perfect example of how to prioritize targets and achieve them.

Indian priorities are
1) Get the opinion of Nations on India's side (There are opinion makers in the South Block of parliament, again this is diplomacy lead by the then PM of India).
2) Create a resistance movement in east Bengal since the massacre started in the March and IA is not ready to invade BD.
3) End the violence of Pakistani army on Bengalis by invading BD.
4) Create a separate country for Bengalis.
5) Make BD a friendly nation.

Indian objective is to save Bengalis not to destroy surrendered Pakistani army.

Indians implemented these things perfectly


Regarding the Jingoism Pakistanis show here, it is the Pakistani establishment fear that one day India will invade their territories, made them to insert jingoist Nationalism based on hatred into their student curriculum.

 

[xyxmt]

The problem is fanboys regards their armies as some ready to die and full of bravado, while the truth is they do fear and they do love their existence and their family existence.

That's the reason why 90K chose to surrender than to die in 71, but then ask any pakistani here and they will say we are ready to get killed if they can kill even 25% of India. That's high talks.



So what you think, you dont feel the fear?

Dont forget, 90K chose to surrender than to die as brave martyrs in 71. Its human nature mate, even Indians would have done the same, no shame in accepting.

to that all I say is, we are half of what we were in 71 and if you were so brave then why not give another try. This time you can totally finish Pakistan. We are terrorizing you, in other word fingering you over and over again, but you are so begherat. If any country had done something like 26/11 to a self respecting country...or do you feel fear?

 

[PoKeMon]

to that all I say is, we are half of what we were in 71 and if you were so brave then why not give another try. This time you can totally finish Pakistan. We are terrorizing you, in other word fingering you over and over again, but you are so begherat. If any country had done something like 26/11 to a self respecting country...or do you feel fear?

Are you saying pak did 26/11? You should be ashamed-terrorist. Blow yourself in hira mandi.

We did break you in half, even half the ghairat country would commit suicide in shame. And here you are, talking out of your a$$, now who are you?

 

[xyxmt]

Are you saying pak did 26/11? You should be ashamed-terrorist. Blow yourself in hira mandi.

We did break you in half, even half the ghairat country would commit suicide in shame. And here you are, talking out of your a$$, now who are you?

now you talk like your mom

 

[Kloitra]

to that all I say is, we are half of what we were in 71 and if you were so brave then why not give another try. This time you can totally finish Pakistan. We are terrorizing you, in other word fingering you over and over again, but you are so begherat. If any country had done something like 26/11 to a self respecting country...or do you feel fear?

Because India is a passive state. It would prefer if 71' doesn't repeat, 99' doesn't repeat and neither 26/11. It doesn't makes India 'begherat'. Begherat are those who think attacking civilians, or constant violence is just.

Or do you think promotion of terrorism all around the world indication of self respect? Is it that your army is so fearful, that it hides behind 'non-state' actors?

 

[xyxmt]

Because India is a passive state. It would prefer if 71' doesn't repeat, 99' doesn't repeat and neither 26/11. It doesn't makes India 'begherat'. Begherat are those who think attacking civilians, or constant violence is just.

Or do you think promotion of terrorism all around the world indication of self respect? Is it that your army is so fearful, that it hides behind 'non-state' actors?

All is fair in war but crying
if 26/11 was terrorist act (although it was an inside job) what do you call 71 war, You can pretend to be all nice but reality of 71 is well known.

Barbaric Gujrat Massacre - The Truth Behind The Story

if your people can do this, they can do what they did in 71 with Bangalis
you didnt win 71 men to men, you won by killing countless bangalis hence Isolating Pakistani army