Pakistan's Education system | Reforms & Upgrades.

[Donatello]

May I add with permission, Chinese Military products coming out have less technological influence of russia recently and more of US type/style and inputs, they have realized they have to look towards standards to develop standards that has made US concerned to some extend.

That's where Pakistan helped them. Since the PAF/Pak Army/Navy operated western weapons for a long time, they were able to give insight to the Chinese on how to work and make machines like these. Not to mention the major chunk of our nuclear technology came from Europe/Canada/USA etc and we gladly shared with the Chinese. From F-16s to nuclear processing equipment. From AIM 9s to Matra 530s, Chinese were able to get a first hand account of how the west makes it's weapons. There is a reason they have stood by us for so long. There is a reason why Americans wanted the BLK52s to remain on a separate airbase. Pakistani pilots/technicians cans till share the pros and cons of the BLK52s with the Chinese. It's a very potent and superior technology to what most of their fleet has. Same with the Agosta 90B and it's MESMA AIP. French are leaders in this field along with Electric propulsion. So Pakistan was essentially a bridge for the technology to go from the west to the east. We are the only nation that operates Western weapons and Chinese weapons on such a large number. Add the Ukrainian Engines and Tanks, Brazilian MAR-1, Denel missiles, wallah, you've got everything covered.

 

[Luftwaffe]

That's where Pakistan helped them. Since the PAF/Pak Army/Navy operated western weapons for a long time, they were able to give insight to the Chinese on how to work and make machines like these. Not to mention the major chunk of our nuclear technology came from Europe/Canada/USA etc and we gladly shared with the Chinese. From F-16s to nuclear processing equipment. From AIM 9s to Matra 530s, Chinese were able to get a first hand account of how the west makes it's weapons. There is a reason they have stood by us for so long. There is a reason why Americans wanted the BLK52s to remain on a separate airbase. Pakistani pilots/technicians cans till share the pros and cons of the BLK52s with the Chinese. It's a very potent and superior technology to what most of their fleet has. Same with the Agosta 90B and it's MESMA AIP. French are leaders in this field along with Electric propulsion. So Pakistan was essentially a bridge for the technology to go from the west to the east. We are the only nation that operates Western weapons and Chinese weapons on such a large number. Add the Ukrainian Engines and Tanks, Brazilian MAR-1, Denel missiles, wallah, you've got everything covered.

So we shared and in return we get what? hmmm interesting can't even get money out of Chinese lol...those who write off loans of African nations and gaves alot of money to Argentina recently.

 

[Donatello]

So we shared and in return we get what? hmmm interesting can't even get money out of Chinese lol...those who write off loans of African nations and gaves alot of money to Argentina recently.

In return you get what ever you wanted from China. Nuclear processing and fueling technology came from the west, but not the ballistic missiles. They came from North Korea (who happens to have China as it's ally) and China. China provided hundreds of millions worth of manufacturing equipment to SUPARCO/AWC/NDC etc to make those rocket motors for Shaheen I/II that we brag about. Once China got up to speed, they are self sufficient in nuclear technology. You got your Chashma Nuclear complex from them. Who do you think would have supplied the equipment for Khushab? Then you wanted a tailor made aircraft, you get JF-17. Chinese were more than happy to offer the SD-10 and for first time give Pakistan a potent BVR technology. Same thing with the upcoming submarines. They will have much Pakistani input and would be tailor made. Anti ship missiles, SAMs, Tanks. You name it. Mig 19 was J6, Mig 21 the F-7. You wanted superior F-7s? No problem, you got F-7PGs. There is no other country in the world that has received so many goodies from China.

 

[Luftwaffe]

In return you get what ever you wanted from China. Nuclear processing and fueling technology came from the west, but not the ballistic missiles. They came from North Korea (who happens to have China as it's ally) and China. China provided hundreds of millions worth of manufacturing equipment to SUPARCO/AWC/NDC etc to make those rocket motors for Shaheen I/II that we brag about. Once China got up to speed, they are self sufficient in nuclear technology. You got your Chashma Nuclear complex from them. Who do you think would have supplied the equipment for Khushab? Then you wanted a tailor made aircraft, you get JF-17. Chinese were more than happy to offer the SD-10 and for first time give Pakistan a potent BVR technology. Same thing with the upcoming submarines. They will have much Pakistani input and would be tailor made. Anti ship missiles, SAMs, Tanks. You name it. Mig 19 was J6, Mig 21 the F-7. You wanted superior F-7s? No problem, you got F-7PGs. There is no other country in the world that has received so many goodies from China.

Not at all we historically received nothing much in return for helping US for helping west for helping China to certain degree now don't say everything came from China otherwise indians would come with loud mouths over here Pakistan is not that dumb either they worked hard as well with limited funds let snot give complete credit to China.

 

[Ijaz Ahmad Zarrar]

Originally posted by Araz.

"I am not sure whether a radical change in the system of education is required. Text and content wise we are better than the western systems that we so envy. However independant thinking needs to be inculcated and for that the teachers need to be trained.Every where in the world there are days set aside for teaching the trainers. Ever see that in Pakistan.
Look I dont want to digress from the topic at hand. Please feel free to open a new thread and discuss the education needs separately. We can then shift the mails from this thread and continue there."
Araz



I am a bit confused here. Which 'text and content' are you talking about? There are three parallel systems running in the glorious country. i.e. Imported one, local and Madrassa type. Now the first one, imported, you cannot say that it is better than the west because it is already imported from there. Local (Matriculation system) is not better than the west; therefore, individuals prefer to do O and A levels. Madrassa system is not even at par with the local education system let alone the western system. You know why I emphasized more on changing the education system at grass root level? Majority of our people cannot go to schools like LGS etc so they end up going to government schools. Should I tell you the condition of government schools? So, we have to think for the majority. Introduce new and effective system in government schools. Take the example of India, only one uniformed system. We should uplift our existing system so we don't have to import our education system. Wasn't it a failure when we introduced a western system? For me it was because it shows that we failed to develop a local system. Open community schools--Social justice! It is the right of poor people to get same level of education as rich do! Yaar, jis mulk mien 9 and 10 ka aik year alag exams aur next year aik sath exams hoon, what do you expect from that education system? A bit too much experiments, eh!

So, if we are able to give a good education to our kids at junior level, they will automatically thrive in universities. If universities will get a 'lot' of thinkers rather than ratu baz, universities will further flourish the abilities of young brats.

Defence budget has increased significantly, whereas, the education budget is at all time low--

Countries can't be run through such policies...

 

[Ussaid]

Well, from my experiences every government-level science, history or Pak studies book essentially escalates into an Islamiat book, thus giving a children a dangerous superiority conception which creates discrimination and eventually jihadits.

 

[jamal18]

I spoke to a friend of mines in . He said if the education was taught in Urdu it would be more beneficial.

He wants us to focus on English instead of Urdu.
Boy, those British really turned us into servile Brown sahibs, didn't they?

Every single country in europe educates its people in its own language, not one educates its people in English.

The successful economies of japan, korea, taiwan ,china and now Turkey educate their people in their own language, the only role of english is as a foreign language. If they can do it, why can't pakistan?

All these countries are ahead of pakistan by light years. Hanging on to english is simply a sign of your slave nature.

The chinese developed a nuclear bomb using chinese, the koreans are light years ahead of pakistan in nuclear technology, in Korean.

Many, many countries fly the F16.

 

[Jit]

Being from the same stock as Indians (mostly) I'd suspect Pakistanis can be as good in maths and science as their Indian cousins - may be the overly Islamic religious education combined with a fictional account of history is actively preventing the Pak children from learning

 

[jamal18]

Being from the same stock as Indians (mostly) I'd suspect Pakistanis can be as good in maths and science as their Indian cousins - may be the overly Islamic religious education combined with a fictional account of history is actively preventing the Pak children from learning

History, fact or fictional, doesn't stop people from learning. Neither does a class or two in religion.

Yes, Pakistanis don't seem to understand the concept of 'objective' history.

In Britain, Indian students seem to outperform most other ethnic groups.

 

[Jit]

@jamal18...interesting. In the US there are a few patterns that I've been following related to this.

1. In schools where Chinese and Indian kids are enrolled in non trivial numbers, academics are dominated by these two. Music is dominated by Chines. Quizzes and debates are dominated by Jews followed closely by Indian girls! But Indian boys gravitate towards electronics and biomechanics while the Chinese boys and girls prefer medicine, period!

2. Pakistanis are Ofcourse a smaller population in affluent suburbs - but the handful of Pakistani kids I've seen part of these schools with large Indian and Chinese enrollments, these kids are absolutely very well rounded - they in addition to academics, also participate in sports , play music and do everything else that their Indian and Chinese mates do!

It breaks my heart every time I see these Pakistani kids suffer in shame whenever something awful is done in Pakistan and their friends express sympathy.

I remember a very erudite gentleman I play golf with say modern day Islam is the worst thing that happened to Muslims and Pakistan the worst to happen to Pakistanis! I used to dismiss as old man cynicism but I am beginning to believe it more and more.

 

[jamal18]

@jamal18...interesting. In the US there are a few patterns that I've been following related to this.

1. In schools where Chinese and Indian kids are enrolled in non trivial numbers, academics are dominated by these two. Music is dominated by Chines. Quizzes and debates are dominated by Jews followed closely by Indian girls! But Indian boys gravitate towards electronics and biomechanics while the Chinese boys and girls prefer medicine, period!

2. Pakistanis are Ofcourse a smaller population in affluent suburbs - but the handful of Pakistani kids I've seen part of these schools with large Indian and Chinese enrollments, these kids are absolutely very well rounded - they in addition to academics, also participate in sports , play music and do everything else that their Indian and Chinese mates do!

It breaks my heart every time I see these Pakistani kids suffer in shame whenever something awful is done in Pakistan and their friends express sympathy.

I remember a very erudite gentleman I play golf with say modern day Islam is the worst thing that happened to Muslims and Pakistan the worst to happen to Pakistanis! I used to dismiss as old man cynicism but I am beginning to believe it more and more.

I thought the chinese and koreans were very strong in the sciences in the US? Maybe that's first generation.
Pakistanis good at sports? LOL! It shows the effects of American culture. In my days us pakistanis were useless at sports, hindustanis are generally not physical people.

Both the Indians and the chinese have a very money orientated approach to study; they study the subjects with the highest incomes!

 

[Jit]

I thought the chinese and koreans were very strong in the sciences in the US? Maybe that's first generation.
Pakistanis good at sports? LOL! It shows the effects of American culture. In my days us pakistanis were useless at sports, hindustanis are generally not physical people.

Both the Indians and the chinese have a very money orientated approach to study; they study the subjects with the highest incomes!

The Koreans are totally integrated into America, better than Chinese an Indians. They don't stand out as a distinct group.

The 2nd and 3rd gen Indians are into non-money professions - journalism, NGOs, vizcom, ad mediA etc.

 

[Hiptullha]

Being from the same stock as Indians (mostly) I'd suspect Pakistanis can be as good in maths and science as their Indian cousins - may be the overly Islamic religious education combined with a fictional account of history is actively preventing the Pak children from learning

No, this is rubbish. There is a cheating culture in Pakistani schools and millions are too poor or have no school to attend. All from the policies of democratic and secular leaders, mind you.

 

[Jit]

No, this is rubbish. There is a cheating culture in Pakistani schools and millions are too poor or have no school to attend. All from the policies of democratic and secular leaders, mind you.

you have not had any democratic or secular leaders ever in power ! military and clergy have always ruled either directly after a coup or indirectly as even right now. Is it any wonder even kids attending schools are taught rubbish, whether the school is a madrassah or a regula public school?

A simple example: your public school kids are taught with text books that say things like 'Pakistan was created long time ago by mhd bin qasim'! 'Hindus don't teach any good values to their children'...

Are these the kind of content that should be in school books?

 

[Hiptullha]

you have not had any democratic or secular leaders ever in power ! military and clergy have always ruled either directly after a coup or indirectly as even right now. Is it any wonder even kids attending schools are taught rubbish, whether the school is a madrassah or a regula public school?

I'm not referring to the content in textbooks, but the fact that we have millions of children out of school right now because of parties like the ANP, PPP, and PML-N.

A simple example: your public school kids are taught with text books that say things like 'Pakistan was created long time ago by mhd bin qasim'! 'Hindus don't teach any good values to their children'...

Drivel. I studied O-level History only a year ago and never encountered anything derogatory towards Hindus. I do however, remember one phrase about Muhammad Bin Qasim founding Pakistan. Are you going to base your entire assessments on the Pakistani education system on a HISTORY course? I'd talk about how there's incredible pressure on children to get A*'s and how children need to memorize test answers word by word, or how the education hardly promotes critical thinking. History? Please.