Pakistan's "battlefield" nukes risk nuclear war: IISS think tank

[jetti]

you are calling Indians thieves. if you want to dish this cr@p out be prepared to take some truth, instead of threatening me.
to me, your so called prophet is not worth a quote from me. and before you come to me, tell your people who insult our national icons like Modi and Gandhi who we hold in higher esteem.

Don't put words In my mouth. I am way past the stage of wasting my time calling anyone anything. You qouted an inflammatory remark against a man totally out of context. Your coloured glasses are deceiving you again. Also understand the difference between religious and national icons.This is my grief not some useless mud slinging. ALSO please talk to me about what I have said not what someone else is saying. Iam not responsible for all the wierdos that hide behind the screen. However come out with bhllcrap against the Prophet especially out of context and I will ensure that you are banned .
Araz

I never said anything against your so called prophet. Show me the exact objection you have and I will be glad to explain.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

You are such big nerds who have not gotten out of your slavish fascination of whatever the Gora tells you. At times think yourself without referring to Goras and the links they post.

Pehlay Musalmanon ke ghulam rahay, phir Goray ke Ghulam rahay, abhi dimagh bhi ghulamana hai.

Apni auqaat se nikal nahin sakay abhi tak - we still rule you and you are still obsessed with us and can not do a damn about it. Remain in your pants before we send you back to Rig Vedic era. Idiots.

Hey you are the "QUINTESSENTIAL IDIOT"; as you have just confirmed again in you post.
Also you seriously lack any decent parental upbringing as your grossly intemperate language demonstrates. Maybe this is the kind of language and expresiions that are commonly used within your family circles, huh?

The last part of your post is absurdly "moronic". You are unable to push the "gaddi of your own destiny" in any worth-while direction, and you are trying to conjure up dreams of pushing other people somewhere????
Have you conveniently forgotten how your dear old own "Chacha Sam" is pushing you around all over the place, be it "Raymond Davis", "Abbottabad Raid" or "Salala"???? Do give that a thought, mian........if you can think at all!

I do love it when any 'Tom, Dick and Haris" comes here posing as the remnants of the "Aaakhri Mughals". Do wake upto one singular fact- that there is nothing "Mughalesque" about you. Everybody knows that by now.

Even the "Aakhri Mughals" are just dust now. Tu kis khet ki mooli hai......

 

[araz]

I never said anything against your so called prophet. Show me the exact objection you have and I will be glad to explain.

Quote Originally Posted by jetti View Post
the only barbarians are the Islamic armies right from mohamads time to Pakistan army now


Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/strate...clear-war-iiss-think-tank-7.html#ixzz2er4zmT5

This is what I wanted to highlight to satisfy your intellect. But it seems you are already history . Well I do feel sorry but you earned it mate.
Araz

 

[Sher.Khan]

stop burning,
just because your not capable of developing tactical nukes you don't need to burn because we can.



or india will do what? nada

no no,pakistan is quite capable,IMO,pakistan should develop and deploy more and more nuclear devices(tactical & strategic),till all money goes that way,hope your country will be neck deep economic burden soon...

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Nassr I have a habit of going by the data and making my opinions as the data emerges not the other way around I will refer you to two excellent academic articles for you to read and then think upon.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakist...stan-army-s-experience-counterinsurgency.html

Regarding your second point it is absolutely false: Truman and not McArthur dictated defence policy. In the west the military designs the strategy not the policy, you are empirically and logically incorrect in this assumption.

A further case for Pakistan: http://www.usip.org/sites/default/files/resources/SR 297.pdf

Please, come with empirical and logical proofs Nassr.

@jaibi; you are correct in what you write, and the underlined part is absolutely accurate. Just to add to the context of it; McArthur wanted to use 'Nukes' in Korea. He (like most Military men) was taken up so much with the (perceived) "magical qualities" of Nuclear Weapons, he saw it as a strategic panacea. While Truman; who in fact had authorised the use of A-Bombs in Nagasaki and Hiroshima ruled out their use. And McArthur paid for his continuing obduracy and obstinacy by losing his job as a "Five-Star General", he just got sacked. That is how the 'chain of command' was and remains in any fully functional state!
Only in a dysfunctional state, do the "khakis" get "whole and sole" control over the nuclear trigger. With potentially disastrous consequences for their countries.

There is a good and sound reason for setting up this kind of chain of command, where the civilian leadership gets primacy in the decision making chain. The civilain leadership is (usually) elected, therefore they have a certain accountability to the populations of their countries. The Uniformed Lot do not carry such accountability. There they are both prone and are likely to use war and all its weapons thereof in far more indiscriminate fashion without thinking of the consequences thereof. History is replete with instances of Generals who would not hesitate to use any or all means to either overcome or conceal their poor 'Generalship' or lack of Strategic Thinking. Our nighborhood (and your country) has living examples of that. One is Gen. Musharraff. Now imagine handing over the "nuke-trigger" to a particularly "gung-ho" General. For any (perceived) personal glory or otherwise even may set off "Armageddon".
Which is why the saying goes: "War is too serious a business, to be left to the Generals alone"
Whenever this dictum has been breached, whole Nations have suffered. For you 1965 or 1999 is living proof of that.

That is simply the point that Nassr is incapable of understanding, for reason that only he may know.

Anyway saner minds like you exist, thankfully; so the idiotic jingoes are kept at bay.

 

[jaibi]

@jaibi; you are correct in what you write, and the underlined part is absolutely accurate. Just to add to the context of it; McArthur wanted to use 'Nukes' in Korea. He (like most Military men) was taken up so much with the (perceived) "magical qualities" of Nuclear Weapons, he saw it as a strategic panacea. While Truman; who in fact had authorised the use of A-Bombs in Nagasaki and Hiroshima ruled out their use. And McArthur paid for his continuing obduracy and obstinacy by losing his job as a "Five-Star General", he just got sacked. That is how the 'chain of command' was and remains in any fully functional state!
Only in a dysfunctional state, do the "khakis" get "whole and sole" control over the nuclear trigger. With potentially disastrous consequences for their countries.

There is a good and sound reason for setting up this kind of chain of command, where the civilian leadership gets primacy in the decision making chain. The civilain leadership is (usually) elected, therefore they have a certain accountability to the populations of their countries. The Uniformed Lot do not carry such accountability. There they are both prone and are likely to use war and all its weapons thereof in far more indiscriminate fashion without thinking of the consequences thereof. History is replete with instances of Generals who would not hesitate to use any or all means to either overcome or conceal their poor 'Generalship' or lack of Strategic Thinking. Our nighborhood (and your country) has living examples of that. One is Gen. Musharraff. Now imagine handing over the "nuke-trigger" to a particularly "gung-ho" General. For any (perceived) personal glory or otherwise even may set off "Armageddon".
Which is why the saying goes: "War is too serious a business, to be left to the Generals alone"
Whenever this dictum has been breached, whole Nations have suffered. For you 1965 or 1999 is living proof of that.

That is simply the point that Nassr is incapable of understanding, for reason that only he may know.

Anyway saner minds like you exist, thankfully; so the idiotic jingoes are kept at bay.

I have had resistance in people in accepting this idea that the civil hierarchy over the armed forces is better. For many people in Pakistan it is alien and maybe it is because they mix strategy with policy and because well we do not have the brightest lot in our government but that does not change the fact that the military arrangement should be civil-military rather than military-civilian.

 

[Vinod2070]

Hey you are the "QUINTESSENTIAL IDIOT"; as you have just confirmed again in you post.
Also you seriously lack any decent parental upbringing as your grossly intemperate language demonstrates. Maybe this is the kind of language and expresiions that are commonly used within your family circles, huh?

The last part of your post is absurdly "moronic". You are unable to push the "gaddi of your own destiny" in any worth-while direction, and you are trying to conjure up dreams of pushing other people somewhere????
Have you conveniently forgotten how your dear old own "Chacha Sam" is pushing you around all over the place, be it "Raymond Davis", "Abbottabad Raid" or "Salala"???? Do give that a thought, mian........if you can think at all!

I do love it when any 'Tom, Dick and Haris" comes here posing as the remnants of the "Aaakhri Mughals". Do wake upto one singular fact- that there is nothing "Mughalesque" about you. Everybody knows that by now.

Even the "Aakhri Mughals" are just dust now. Tu kis khet ki mooli hai......

There are some people who remain obsessed with India and their past identity despite calling it jahiliya and worse.

No ilaaz for their marz.

 

[Nassr]

Everything has its place, Nassr, I am well aware of the ramifications of our nuclear capabilities I just want everyone to appreciate what that truly means how using it would be like. I want everyone to be aware of what we will unleash and then decide. That being said I told you that it's not going to happen overnight but a series of events will lead to it we should do our level best never to reach that state.

Secondly, I refer not because I lack exprience I do not know about you but I have researched on the Pakistan military, I have met a number of high ranking officers, I have friends and family serving, my nana was a WWII veteran who fought Pakistan in his PAF uniform since her inception, he lost his leg to Indian fighters. So if it is about credibility and 'experience' then I can most probably out rank you by a long shot. That being said why do I stress proof? Why do I refrain from saying: 'oooh I have sources in Pak Army, I can tell you!' like I've seen here on PDF over and over again? Because we need a criteria to judge what's being said, if we work on the model where I say A is true and you say B is true and our end synthesis would be for me A is true and for you B is true then we will head no where.

I openly welcome you to critically read whatever I say, scrutinise the references, I would be glad to learn something new even if it proves me wrong but please don't try to be an authority and end it at that.

I responded to an Indian poster, when he said that whereas in case of a nuclear war, India would be able to absorb Pakistani strike, a counter Indian strike would completely wipe out Pakistan. Please try and understand my responses in context.

I have never said or even hinted at any stage that army should over-ride the civilian rule or should interfere in governing any aspect related to a democratic Pakistan. To the contrary, I am an ardent supporter of democracy in Pakistan and have fought for it.

With regard to your degrees and research that you carried out and your relatives in the army and anything else that you may not have mentioned, I accomplished all that when you probably did not even exist in liquid form. Please do remember one thing as you go along in your life, use your capabilities and your knowledge humbly and not arrogantly, as there would always be somebody who would be much more knowledgeable and would have much more experience than your credentials, familial or educational.

If you join an Indian to insult me, I could treat you like an Indian and insult you back. You have the capability to respond with a well laid out and bibliographic referenced ten pages, however, due to the arrogance arrogated through the limited knowledge that you display, this may be the last time I respond to you. Thank you.

 

[Nassr]

There are some people who remain obsessed with India and their past identity despite calling it jahiliya and worse.

No ilaaz for their marz.

I am sorry I did not get you - what is ilaaz?

 

[EAK]

The last part of your post is absurdly "moronic". You are unable to push the "gaddi of your own destiny" in any worth-while direction, and you are trying to conjure up dreams of pushing other people somewhere????
Have you conveniently forgotten how your dear old own "Chacha Sam" is pushing you around all over the place, be it "Raymond Davis", "Abbottabad Raid" or "Salala"???? Do give that a thought, mian........if you can think at all!

America====> "Raymond Davis", "Abbottabad Raid" or "Salala"
Pakistan====> ''Indian Parliament attack''''Mumbai Attack'' or LOC Beheadings
FEEL THE DIFFERENCE BABY

 

[Capt.Popeye]

America====> "Raymond Davis", "Abbottabad Raid" or "Salala"
Pakistan====> ''Indian Parliament attack''''Mumbai Attack'' or LOC Beheadings
FEEL THE DIFFERENCE BABY

Now you do understand why "Paksitan is described as the Epicenter of Terrorism"?
Now where are you feeling the difference, mian???
Up where the Sun don't Shine!!!!!!
Lage raho mian.......aapki gaddi, har lihaaz se waise bhi rukii hui hai.

 

[jaibi]

I responded to an Indian poster, when he said that whereas in case of a nuclear war, India would be able to absorb Pakistani strike, a counter Indian strike would completely wipe out Pakistan. Please try and understand my responses in context.

I have never said or even hinted at any stage that army should over-ride the civilian rule or should interfere in governing any aspect related to a democratic Pakistan. To the contrary, I am an ardent supporter of democracy in Pakistan and have fought for it.

With regard to your degrees and research that you carried out and your relatives in the army and anything else that you may not have mentioned, I accomplished all that when you probably did not even exist in liquid form. Please do remember one thing as you go along in your life, use your capabilities and your knowledge humbly and not arrogantly, as there would always be somebody who would be much more knowledgeable and would have much more experience than your credentials, familial or educational.

If you join an Indian to insult me, I could treat you like an Indian and insult you back. You have the capability to respond with a well laid out and bibliographic referenced ten pages, however, due to the arrogance arrogated through the limited knowledge that you display, this may be the last time I respond to you. Thank you.

You reacted the same way I expected you would, sir. You missed the point of my post. I told you that if you want ot be an authority meaning we should take your words without proofs and critical analysis and that is due to your experience then there are people who will out rank you in that regard. So I illuminated to you why I do not flaunt personal observations and conversations and try to stick to facts, figures and logic because they can be criticised, synthesised then my arguments can be put to the test. Yours cannot be. So I asked you to please go ahead and put up proofs and arguements for your views.

My point in telling you my background was not to make you feel low but to show you that your way of argument is not fruitful as anyone can claim to be an authority based on any criteria. We need a more systematic way of exchange of ideas and counter-ideas. Though, I had thought that you would take it wrongly and think I have 'dissed' you; it's because I put work into what I say and it really bothers me when people are more casual in really serious posts. I was glad to see your post in my 'A little help, please!' there I welcome your experience in terms of age and your interactions in practicality over there my facts and figures would do little but here the precedence needs to be on more logically and rationally oriented debates.

It is very natural to get heated on national/political debates I have committed the sin again and again too: it is human but there is an alternative way. See, I did not insult you with the Indian members, I read their posts afterwards, my interaction with you was independent of them. If it comes to it then most probably you and I will be shoulder to shoulder against a Indo-Pak war. Disagreement does not mean dissent. Yes, I do maintain a respect for Indian members that is because I believe everyone deserves respect there are a lot of Indians whose comments hurt me, insult me but I have to be the bigger man. Their hate.emotions do not give me a liecence.

I hope you take this post well.

Regards.

 

[tarrar]

These are just new ways of targeting Pakistan Nukes, nothing else. US is desperate to get their hands on Pakistan nukes to ensure the safety of their basterd son or boss (whatever you want call them) Israel.