Pakistan's Artillery Upgrade Discussions

[Arsalan]

Your post about G-6 suggest it can be good contender to be part of strike units of PA.

It is an excellent platform no doubt. However, not a contender as it is not being considered. We are currently looking at wheeled SPH and only looking at Nora and T5 having looked and considered SH1 previously. G6 was not in the picture. Next step, whenever it comes, will be tracked SPH and for that M109s will be top priority i guess.

As for G6, again, it is great. At time of its introduction it was considered the market leader in wheeled platforms. Very mobile and very tough. Mobile is what we are looking for when we are considering wheeled SPH and tough is what we need. It is reported to have survived MULTIPLE anti-tank mine blasts during trials and have a very decent mine resistant body. Have very high speed (90km/hr) and long range (600 km) and have the shoot and scoot ability as it can be put into firing position, fire and then be made ready to move and change position again, all in around 2 min only, avoiding any anti-battery fire. Have a 6 rounds MRSI mode which for me is the technology that is keeping artillery not only relevant but also very lethal in modern warfare. It can fire these rounds and move away, all rounds will hit the target TOGETHER. Consider a battery of 10 or 12 guns firing at an advancing enemy column in MRSI mode. The enemy will be rained upon by 60 - 72 rounds, all at once. This will be extremely efficient, the best part is the guns can run away after firing these rounds and change position to avoid enemy counter fire and live to engage them again in similar manner. The firing range is also massive with some special V-LAP rounds reported to have hit targets as far as 65km.

All said, the T5-52 that we are evaluating is also a pretty decent platform. While it lacks the anti-mine protection of G6 it is also very mobile, have similar top speed and range, firing range, response time is same if not better, can also fire in MRSI mode so overall T5-52 will be a good choice as well. Same for Nora B52.

 

[Zarvan]

It is an excellent platform no doubt. However, not a contender as it is not being considered. We are currently looking at wheeled SPH and only looking at Nora and T5 having looked and considered SH1 previously. G6 was not in the picture. Next step, whenever it comes, will be tracked SPH and for that M109s will be top priority i guess.

As for G6, again, it is great. At time of its introduction it was considered the market leader in wheeled platforms. Very mobile and very tough. Mobile is what we are looking for when we are considering wheeled SPH and tough is what we need. It is reported to have survived MULTIPLE anti-tank mine blasts during trials and have a very decent mine resistant body. Have very high speed (90km/hr) and long range (600 km) and have the shoot and scoot ability as it can be put into firing position, fire and then be made ready to move and change position again, all in around 2 min only, avoiding any anti-battery fire. Have a 6 rounds MRSI mode which for me is the technology that is keeping artillery not only relevant but also very lethal in modern warfare. It can fire these rounds and move away, all rounds will hit the target TOGETHER. Consider a battery of 10 or 12 guns firing at an advancing enemy column in MRSI mode. The enemy will be rained upon by 60 - 72 rounds, all at once. This will be extremely efficient, the best part is the guns can run away after firing these rounds and change position to avoid enemy counter fire and live to engage them again in similar manner. The firing range is also massive with some special V-LAP rounds reported to have hit targets as far as 65km.

All said, the T5-52 that we are evaluating is also a pretty decent platform. While it lacks the anti-mine protection of G6 it is also very mobile, have similar top speed and range, firing range, response time is same if not better, can also fire in MRSI mode so overall T5-52 will be a good choice as well. Same for Nora B52.

We already have enough M-109 but time to say bye bye to M-110 way to big and difficult to move. And I don't think we should try to replace them with same caliber instead we should try to get 155MM Tracked Artillery from Turkey.

 

[Arsalan]

We already have enough M-109 but time to say bye bye to M-110 way to big and difficult to move. And I don't think we should try to replace them with same caliber instead we should try to get 155MM Tracked Artillery from Turkey.

We are pursuing a standarization program to make 155mm as the standard so M110 are here only for as long as we do not acquire better more suitable guns in numbers. M109 is with us in good quantity and we absolutely LOVE it. The newer versions have MRSI and other goodies as well. So when we start looking for tracked SPH M109 will be there on top of the list for sure. We wont choose a different weapons just because we want different machines running, in fact, we will always try to standardize things and us USA is ready to play ball they wont find us hesitant. More A5s as planned, perhaps a few A6s too. If those are not available, then the next most probably option in the Chinese PLZ-05 or PLZ-45.

 

[peruni]

Nora B-52 could be produced on some local made 8x8 truck. Pakistan had in past assembled Kamaz truck but could also use some other manufacturer. Nora is modular weapon system and it is not tied for one truck or chassis manufacturer. Could be even mounted on battleships or tracked vehicles with appropriate adjustments .

With Nora B-52 Pakistan gets one of best artillery software and fire control in world, software that is in dreams of African Denel and software that has brought up China interest in Nora B-52 and possible military cooperation of Serbia with China in artillery production.

Software that can direct battery fire of six Nora B-52 with one press of button on a one or multiple targets.

Serbia had first in world developed gun mounted howitzer on truck while rest has been trying to keep up with (look new Cesar now on 8x8 trying to get more automation, Konstrukta 155mm 6x6 and many other trying to cope with Nora level of automation and development).

Serbia has long tradition with artillery dating from Medieval period early as 1350 when "humka" bombard or canon was used in wars. You could not say that for South Africa.

Pakistan is already using some products from military industry of Serbia and was very pleased with them. In past M-84 tank developed in Belgrade MTI was in Pakistan on test when it negotiated buying of tanks. Tank was not purchased because of war in Yugoslava but according to my knowledge Pakistan has obtained some construction documentation by side channels for M-84 and implemented knowledge from it it in tank Al-Khalid you are now producing. Even today more than 20 years after M-84 was produced fire control system developed by MTI Belgrade is better than one in latest Russia version of T-72 - T-72B4 and many other tanks in world.

Pakistan has a line for artillery ammo from South Korea but still lacks some type of ammo that Serbia can offer with Nora. And not just 155mm but others calibers as well.

Software from Nora could be implemented in other artillery Pakistan have that needs modernization. And Serbia could for example integrate new ammo and software on M109 155mm. Serbia could modernize Pakistan towed artillery D-30 on Sora 122mm level on Pakistan 6x6 chassis for example or develop package for modernization of other towed 155mm Pakistan has in armament.

Serbia could modernize Pakistan 130mm M-46 - Type 59 by up-gunning it to 155mm with 45caliber something that Serbia developed more than 20 years ago for domestic and foreign M-46.

Serbia could offer you to transfer technology and produce domestic Nora towed howitzer in 155mm caliber
and you would have complete line of towed and truck mounted artillery domestically produced .

So there is a lot possibilities for mutual cooperation in artillery field if Pakistan buy Nora B-52 155mm not to mention other areas.

 

[HRK]

Pakistan has a line for artillery ammo from South Korea but still lacks some type of ammo that Serbia can offer with Nora

With Nora B-52 VLAP should attract additional interest ....

So there is a lot possibilities for mutual cooperation in artillery field if Pakistan buy Nora B-52 155mm not to mention other areas.

Yes there could be many possibilities in future such as NORA-A1 LIGHT GUN-HOWITZER (155 mm/39 CAL.)

 

[pzfz]

the m109s are not 52 caliber, hence they'll always have a shorter range than the 52 caliber guns. the first g6s are also not 52 caliber, pretty sure they're 45 cal.

if pak is smart, they'll go for the denel t5-52. that same gun provides a lot of flexibility regarding platforms:wheeled chassis, truck wheeled, or tracked chassis.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

the m109s are not 52 caliber, hence they'll always have a shorter range than the 52 caliber guns. the first g6s are also not 52 caliber, pretty sure they're 45 cal.

if pak is smart, they'll go for the denel t5-52. that same gun provides a lot of flexibility regarding platforms:wheeled chassis, truck wheeled, or tracked chassis.

Yep I hope they actually procure the requisite ToT to fully manufacture the gun. If HIT has to raise its own steel mill, then so be it, the benefit would be localized supply of 155 mm artillery and 125 mm tank guns. VLAP and INS/GPS-guided shells for artillery would be positives as well.

 

[HRK]

If HIT has to raise its own steel mill, then so be it,

I think Heavy Mechanical complex have casting & forging facility available though one can't term it as STEEL MILL

All its processing facilities are in-house including Designing, Fabrication, Machining, Iron and Steel Castings, Forgings, Heat Treatment, Assembly, Sand Blasting, Painting and Galvanizing etc.

 

[Advocate Pakistan]

I think Heavy Mechanical complex have casting & forging facility available though one can't term it as STEEL MILL

Good to know. But that is pretty much every functioning of a steel mill mentioned there, especially in regards to the refining stages. Don't exactly know what else should a steel mill do? Enlighten me please.

 

[HRK]

Good to know. But that is pretty much every functioning of a steel mill mentioned there, especially in regards to the refining stages. Don't exactly know what else should a steel mill do? Enlighten me please.

Forging & Casting are the ONLY TWO functions that all STEEL MILLS perform ... ??

& for enlightenment part ... plz help yourself ...

 

[Zarvan]

the m109s are not 52 caliber, hence they'll always have a shorter range than the 52 caliber guns. the first g6s are also not 52 caliber, pretty sure they're 45 cal.

if pak is smart, they'll go for the denel t5-52. that same gun provides a lot of flexibility regarding platforms:wheeled chassis, truck wheeled, or tracked chassis.

I agree and also we can also get Towed Artillery Guns from South Africa and start joint ventures

 

[Path-Finder]

https://twitter.com/x/status/853635616327815170

Sorry but just pointing it out.

 

[Zarvan]

https://twitter.com/x/status/853635616327815170

Sorry but just pointing it out.

Well according to data sheet it's good against only Small Arms. We need MRAP like Coughar

 

[Path-Finder]

Well according to data sheet it's good against only Small Arms. We need MRAP like Coughar

This is South African Marauder MRAP built in US

 

[Zarvan]

This is South African Marauder MRAP built in US

Great vechile and we should get it from South Africa with TOT and also other vehicles