Pakistan's acquisition of the U-214

[Arsalan]

If this is true,
then bad news.

that it would be..

the last optimistic option would be, that, as we know the idea from the very start was to get three U214 and some four to six chines subs to complement technologically superior U214.

now after all the kick back issues and reasons know to God, PN might wisely changed the priority list to go for chines subs for time being abd later on when situation is favourable, with zardari gone, go for U214 as well.
this would have beeen better other way aroud with getting U214 first, giving time to chines next generation under development sub to be born, use experties of U214 and Agosta 90b to modify the chines option as per requirment and then get it!

any way,
its just a point of view, a bit too pesimistic i guess but what else we can say. we do love PN and Pakistan


regards!

 

[mughaljee]

why don't we think , that, German's are at the top in sub manufacturing.(Old in this field too)
why we don't realise this ? why we are not taking chance ?

 

[Stealth_fighter]

seems like u-214 diving through the shallow water

 

[Arsalan]

why don't we think , that, German's are at the top in sub manufacturing.(Old in this field too)
why we don't realise this ? why we are not taking chance ?

we all know that, so does the naval command but sadly there are also a lot of other factors that might go wrong.

we have been discussing the deal in depth from its very start.

now in my opinion, the only option that remains open is to get the chienese subs before the U214 and u214 comes later on..
we all know that the idea always was to get three U214 and some four~size chines subs..

regards!

 

[muse]

Perhaps Pakistan should signal it's willingness to commit to between 12 to 15 U214 over the next 12 to 15 year time frame - DO you think this may help provide enough of an impetus for politicians to clear the way for this deal -- or is it that Major non-Nato ally is a designation that is more diplomatic than practical?

 

[Myth_buster_1]

we all know that, so does the naval command but sadly there are also a lot of other factors that might go wrong.

we have been discussing the deal in depth from its very start.

now in my opinion, the only option that remains open is to get the chienese subs before the U214 and u214 comes later on..
we all know that the idea always was to get three U214 and some four~size chines subs..

regards!

Do you think Pakistan has that much money to buy this for now and that for later? Tell me what advantage will the chines AIP sub give over PN agosta-90B?

 

[Donatello]

Do you think Pakistan has that much money to buy this for now and that for later? Tell me what advantage will the chines AIP sub give over PN agosta-90B?

Chinese have been rapidly expanding their navy, meaning more classes of Subs are now being constructed. They have experience, so why not just buy Chinese subs, and upgrade them as China learns more. We will get to learn as well.

I don't see how U214 is the ultimate deal, so costly, with sanctions, long term kick backs, etc it's just too complex.

I mean we got ToT for Agosta 90, but how may did we produce?

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Chinese have been rapidly expanding their navy, meaning more classes of Subs are now being constructed. They have experience, so why not just buy Chinese subs, and upgrade them as China learns more. We will get to learn as well.

China has a long way to catch with technical parity with the west however they have progressed since the past decade. I am talking with first hand conversation with air force and army personals who still believe given the possibility pakistan should acquire western technology and Pak never gets Chinese top notch systems. And the Chinese submarine that we are talking about is not something that offers more sophisticated systems unlike the Type-214 which PN officials desperately wants except that crook Naval chief.
And guess what. Most of officers have told me that keep backs happens in almost every deals including with China. Prime example would be, PN thoroughly evaluated Type-214 and it is selected for PN next generation sub, then all of sudden some order from top brass are given to abandon the deal and go for Chinese once.

I don't see how U214 is the ultimate deal, so costly, with sanctions, long term kick backs, etc it's just too complex.

If you have done a bit more research i am sure you would come to the conclusion that indeed type-214 is the ultimate deal for PN.

I mean we got ToT for Agosta 90, but how may did we produce?

So you want PN to develop new infrastructure for a system that does not offers much then what they already have "A-90B"?

 

[Arsalan]

Do you think Pakistan has that much money to buy this for now and that for later? Tell me what advantage will the chines AIP sub give over PN agosta-90B?

it was the original idea.
we were always going to get Chinese subs to increase the number..

we have to maintain a sizeable fleet.

it was never possible to get some 6 or 8 U214 as it would ave been way too expensive!
where did agosta 90-b came into this??
by the way you have also termed Agosta 90 deal as rubbish earlier in one of your post

regards!

 

[Super Falcon]

well alone chinese submarines wont do any better for pakistan navy we are too short on the submarine fleet if even we get 4 chinese submarines we are still short on submariens remember india got 10 nuke subs 6 scorpene still to come 10 indigenous submarines projetc already launched and also new tender of 10 more conventional submarines to come and our naval ships are also 4 on indian ships and our one so we need to close that huge gap even if we buy U 214 3 still there is big gap but somehow the gap might be narrowed with 6 chinese and 4 U 214 submarines

 

[Markus]

well alone chinese submarines wont do any better for pakistan navy we are too short on the submarine fleet if even we get 4 chinese submarines we are still short on submariens remember india got 10 nuke subs 6 scorpene still to come 10 indigenous submarines projetc already launched and also new tender of 10 more conventional submarines to come and our naval ships are also 4 on indian ships and our one so we need to close that huge gap even if we buy U 214 3 still there is big gap but somehow the gap might be narrowed with 6 chinese and 4 U 214 submarines

OH my Gosh!!!

India has 10 nuke subs cheesy and I dont know.

Shame on me.

 

[Arsalan]

well alone chinese submarines wont do any better for pakistan navy we are too short on the submarine fleet if even we get 4 chinese submarines we are still short on submariens remember india got 10 nuke subs 6 scorpene still to come 10 indigenous submarines projetc already launched and also new tender of 10 more conventional submarines to come and our naval ships are also 4 on indian ships and our one so we need to close that huge gap even if we buy U 214 3 still there is big gap but somehow the gap might be narrowed with 6 chinese and 4 U 214 submarines

bro i guess you have quoted IN fifty year project plan or something....

there are no 10 nuclear subs,
10 indigenous submarines projetc already launched
no such tender is inked. this means it will first be finalized, then production will start abd man, building 10 subs wont be a metter of a few years!!
new tender of 10 more conventional submarines
noops!
it is only undr consideration and havnt been even floatd yet.
will atleast be five years from now when it will be finalized, then the production will start....

everyone here will really appreciate if you can back such statements with some sources!

regards!

 

[SQ8]

well alone chinese submarines wont do any better for pakistan navy we are too short on the submarine fleet if even we get 4 chinese submarines we are still short on submariens remember india got 10 nuke subs 6 scorpene still to come 10 indigenous submarines projetc already launched and also new tender of 10 more conventional submarines to come and our naval ships are also 4 on indian ships and our one so we need to close that huge gap even if we buy U 214 3 still there is big gap but somehow the gap might be narrowed with 6 chinese and 4 U 214 submarines

Could you speak that in one breath
And its a little less bleaker than that.. but the future is still bleak for our navy. The U-214 was a nice deal that slipped away due to the thirst for kickbacks... And now we no longer have the funds to even afford Chinese subs.

 

[Arsalan]

Could you speak that in one breath
And its a little less bleaker than that.. but the future is still bleak for our navy. The U-214 was a nice deal that slipped away due to the thirst for kickbacks... And now we no longer have the funds to even afford Chinese subs.

i would like strom force to provide some sources for these claims,
i hope all should go in good will and for knowledge seeking and information gather mode.

@ Strom Force
it will be real nice if we can get the source from where these figures are taken.


thank you,
regards!

 

[Myth_buster_1]

it was the original idea.
we were always going to get Chinese subs to increase the number..

we have to maintain a sizeable fleet.

it was never possible to get some 6 or 8 U214 as it would ave been way too expensive!
where did agosta 90-b came into this??
by the way you have also termed Agosta 90 deal as rubbish earlier in one of your post

regards!

Nope, Chinese subs were never part of PN original plan, it only changed recently due to some unkown reasons. The original plan was only technical superior german or French subs and Type-214 was evaluated and it would have been plausible to acquire them in 2 batch orders of 3x2. And then yes their could have been a possibility to acquire chinese SSK to total up the fleet of 12 that should be like 6 type-214 3 A-90B and 3 SSK as for AFFDP-2019.
PN did evaluate British new class SSK which were on sale but due to kickbacks A-90B were chosen "thanks to mr10%". Now that Agosta infrastructure has been developed I dont see why should PN acquire similar sub and increase financial burden.