Pakistani women gives a great reply to India and Pakistani media

[PlanetWarrior]

I don't think the ancient people in the geographical boundaries of modern day Pakistan were forced to do anything, neither were they oppressed by their pagan rulers. They were doing fine, they eventually converted to Islam slowly over time. There were no mass conversions. Pakistan was geographically closer to the Caliphates & to the Sunni Persian dynasties, that lead to a greater Islamic influence from those areas. The majority of people converted because they believed in the religion, although I do not deny the possibility of few forced conversions either. Contrary to popular beliefs, many Islamic empires weren't Utopian, & like any other society; they had their share of flaws.

So in a summary conclusion, you were always a great buffer for what is modern day India and continue to be so

 

[Enemy]

The Aryans were not simply invaders, unlike other conquerors; they modified the demographics of the north western region of the Sub-Continent & the culture of most of the region too. Had it not been for them, there would have been no Vedic civilization, neither would there have been any technological advancements as a result of that civilization seeing as the Harappans collapsed due to a variety of factors. We wouldn't even be speaking our current languages if it weren't for them. Keep in mind that a vast majority of people in the north western & to some extent northern regions of the Sub-Continent descend from them, even if some of them no longer resemble them entirely in appearance.



The people who fought against the Greeks in the north western regions of the Sub-Continent were Aryans or the descendants of Indo-Aryans themselves. There was less mixture at that time, so I am guessing the Aryans were still around in their purest forms. King Porus fought bravely against Alexander the Great. In fact, Alexander was so impressed by him that after capturing his kingdom in Punjab, Alexander asked Porus how he would like to be treated. Porus's response was: "the way one king treats another king". It was because of that Alexander the Great returned to him his conquered Kingdom provided they become a protectorate of the Macedonian empire.

By the way, the Greeks were well aware of the Aryan heritage of the Indus. Alexander the Great had even planned an attempt at population dispersion throughout his empire to get the Indo-European tribes to mix up, but he died before being able to accomplish that. The descendants of the Indo-Aryans were the first to resist every invader that tried to enter the Indus. The people of Sindh fought bravely against the Islamic invaders as well, as was their right to do so. We follow Islam today, because we believe in it, similar to how loads of Muslims in your own country follow Islam. By the way, Asoka the Great, as far as I know, descends from Vedic Aryans.

The purest form of Aryan religion, as seen in the Rig Vedas, resembles Islamic and Christian faiths.

The intrusion of Aryan religion was a religious reformation. But in course of time, it got corrupt. Then Islam came as another reformation. Then came Christianity as another reformation.

 

[PlanetWarrior]

The purest form of Aryan religion, as seen in the Rig Vedas, resembles Islamic and Christian faiths.

The intrusion of Aryan religion was a religious reformation. But in course of time, it got corrupt. Then Islam came as another reformation. Then came Christianity as another reformation.

Didn't Islam come to the sub-continent before Christianity did ?

 

[Enemy]

Didn't Islam come to the sub-continent before Christianity did ?

What did I say in my post?

 

[p(-)0ENiX]

So in a summary conclusion, you were always a great buffer for what is modern day India and continue to be so

You are implying that we were a barrier between Western Asia & the rest of the Sub-Continent? Our civilizations may have been a barrier as the north western region of the Indian Sub-Continent was politically distinct from various other kingdoms in the region, but that makes absolutely no difference.

Multiple kingdoms in what is now India have fought with each other. Even Aryan kingdoms during the Vedic civilization fought with each other, in spite of being aware of their ethnic kinship. The point remains, the reason we are Muslims today is because we believe in Islam. If I did not believe in it, I would never follow it.

 

[dravidianhero]

@Enemy
vedas were no reformation of any sort.go and read any random sloka of rigveda on the net and you will find that they were nothing but some stupid writings written by some tribes praising various gods like agni,varuna,indra etc.i dont want to offend anyone but vedas are bull crap.it is only with the advent of upanishads hinduism got refined.infact upanishads are wat we shld be proud of.vedas are just tribal texts like the texts of abrahamic religions

 

[Enemy]

@Enemy
vedas were no reformation of any sort.go and read any random sloka of rigveda on the net and you will find that they were nothing but some stupid writings written by some tribes praising various gods like agni,varuna,indra etc.i dont want to offend anyone but vedas are bull crap.it is only with the advent of upanishads hinduism got refined.infact upanishads are wat we shld be proud of.vedas are just tribal texts like the texts of abrahamic religions

Dude, The Rid Veda does not mention idolatry and animism like worshiping snakes or monkeys... like the tribals do in the subcontinent.

Show me any hymn that refers to idolatry or snake worship. I will post evidence if you want.

And Rig Veda is the earliest.

 

[PlanetWarrior]

You are implying that we were a barrier between Western Asia & the rest of the Sub-Continent? Our civilizations may have been a barrier as the north western region of the Indian Sub-Continent was politically distinct from various other kingdoms in the region, but that makes absolutely no difference.

Multiple kingdoms in what is now India have fought with each other. Even Aryan kingdoms during the Vedic civilization fought with each other, in spite of being aware of their ethnic kinship. The point remains, the reason we are Muslims today is because we believe in Islam. If I did not believe in it, I would never follow it.

Nobody questions yours or anybody else's belief in Islam. Good for you that you do. The point on discussion here was the military and political weaknesses of what is current day Pakistan throughout the ages and a small irrelevant part of the discussion harbored around whether Muslims in current day Pakistan are the descendants of forced convertors or the Islamic invaders (yes delusions do exist in the minds of some posters here). Hence the discussion about your kings such as Porus (whom I believe was a Hindu even though I stand corrected). Further point of discussion evolved into some Pakistani lambasting us as being weaklings who were "conquered through the ages". We respectfully pointed out to him/her that it was what is current day Pakistan which was conquered through the ages and not really current day India except for certain instances. In fact one idiot even went so far as to claim that Pakistan had conquered India for 1 000 years. .

 

[dravidianhero]

people say vedas are basis for upanishads.i have a very little knowledge of it but from whatever i read i can safely say tht upanishads and vedas are miles apart in their philosophical outlook.
so present day indians are not following the religion which was born in pak(from vedas)
it is a completely diff religion mixed of upanishadic philosophy plus various deities who had no place in rugveda(kali,vishnu,ganapati,hanuman)
indians are not following vedic religion any more

Dude, The Rid Veda does not mention idolatry and animism like worshiping snakes or monkeys... like the tribals do in the subcontinent.

Show me any hymn that refers to idolatry or snake worship. I will post evidence if you want.

And Rig Veda is the earliest.

thats what i am saying.we r no longer following vedic religion but that does not mean vedas are superior.they were the books of the tribes just like old testament is to jews

 

[Enemy]

people say vedas are basis for upanishads.i have a very little knowledge of it but from whatever i read i can safely say tht upanishads and vedas are miles apart in their philosophical outlook.
so present day indians are not following the religion which was born in pak(from vedas)
it is a completely diff religion mixed of upanishadic philosophy plus various deities who had no place in rugveda(kali,vishnu,ganapati,hanuman)
indians are not following vedic religion any more

That is true. Indians were no longer pure blood Aryans after the Rig Vedic period.

 

[PlanetWarrior]

If the Vedas are from modern day Pakistan and the Upanishads are from modern day India, I suggest that we send a petition to the BJP requesting that they ban the Vedas if they ever become the government of India

 

[p(-)0ENiX]

The purest form of Aryan religion, as seen in the Rig Vedas, resembles Islamic and Christian faiths.

The intrusion of Aryan religion was a religious reformation. But in course of time, it got corrupt. Then Islam came as another reformation. Then came Christianity as another reformation.

Vedism does seem to be kind of different from modern day Hinduism. I have heard the Aryans ate beef, & the Aryan pantheon was extremely similar to the Greek Pantheon, & the Vedic religion eventually got corrupted. Based on what I know, Hinduism seems to be an amalgamation of all the various different beliefs in the Sub-Continent.

By the way, the Vedic Aryan civilization would have lasted a lot longer if the Aryan kingdoms did not fight each other for power similar to the Greek city states.

 

[Enemy]

If the Vedas are from modern day Pakistan and the Upanishads are from modern day India, I suggest that we send a petition to the BJP requesting that they ban the Vedas if they ever become the government of India

I doubt any BJP guy has ever been interested in the Rig Veda.

Vedism does seem to be kind of different from modern day Hinduism. I have heard the Aryans ate beef, & the Aryan pantheon was extremely similar to the Greek Pantheon, & the Vedic religion eventually got corrupted. Based on what I know, Hinduism seems to be an amalgamation of all the various different beliefs in the Sub-Continent.

By the way, the Vedic Aryan civilization would have lasted a lot longer if the Aryan kingdoms did not fight each other for power similar to the Greek city states.

Very true. And...

Of course, beef eating was a common practice.

 

[dravidianhero]

If the Vedas are from modern day Pakistan and the Upanishads are from modern day India, I suggest that we send a petition to the BJP requesting that they ban the Vedas if they ever become the government of India

historians say only rigveda is from pak.the remaining 3 were born india itself but they more or less related to rigveda.
there is as much diff between vedas and upanishads as there is between an illiterate barber and a literate civilised citizen

 

[PlanetWarrior]

Vedism does seem to be kind of different from modern day Hinduism. I have heard the Aryans ate beef, & the Aryan pantheon was extremely similar to the Greek Pantheon, & the Vedic religion eventually got corrupted. Based on what I know, Hinduism seems to be an amalgamation of all the various different beliefs in the Sub-Continent.

By the way, the Vedic Aryan civilization would have lasted a lot longer if the Aryan kingdoms did not fight each other for power similar to the Greek city states.

Well on the issue of eating beef or being a vegetarian, I have not come across any Hindu scripture which compels one to abstain from meat including beef. I maybe wrong but no authority has been pointed out to me