Pakistani troops fire on intruding U.S. choppers

[Logic note]

The monsters were created out of the cold war and US policies in the Middle East. In fact these monsters had a direct link to the US in that the CIA, ISI and GID played central roles in creating the conditions for such monsters to prosper.

It wasn't deliberate, no one knew that the situation would become what it has now, but that does not mean that the various parties did not play their role.

.

The Monsters were humans when they fought the war for their own independence .. against aggressors.
but when they extended this war to express there narrow minded ness in the name of "cause" they became monsters.
when people lose the sense of humanity .. when they stop using their mind and become slave of their blind faith they become monsters..

a man is responsible for his own behaviour

No one 'milked' US money. The US was aware of Pakistani concerns with respect to a hostile India, and helping modernize Pakistan's military was necessary for her to contribute resources away from the East and in FATA.

That said, the majority of the funding given, as pointed out ad infinitum, is reimbursement of expenses incurred through deploying troops in FATA and logistical support for the US. If the US has issues with its accounting practices, that is her problem, and her prerogative to fix, not Pakistan's

Us paid for fighting its own cause .. it was reimbursement for the expenditure incurred in fighting these "monster" ... not for arming India specific goals .. yes US have issues thats why .. we see these incidents

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

The Monsters were humans when they fought the war for their own independence .. against aggressors.
but when they extended this war to express there narrow minded ness in the name of "cause" they became monsters.
when people lose the sense of humanity .. when they stop using their mind and become slave of their blind faith they become monsters..

a man is responsible for his own behaviour

Atrocities were being committed by both sides taliban and NA, and before that by the other various factions - it was not solely 'blind faith', though you woudl like very much to just pin the blame on Islam in general.

You are correct that man is responsible for his own actions, and that is vindication that it is not Islam, but man that chooses to pervert any belief and use it as a means to an end.

But my point was more about Pakistan not being the sole cause for the 'monsters' we find today - teh US directly and indirectly played a large part in that creation.

Us paid for fighting its own cause .. it was reimbursement for the expenditure incurred in fighting these "monster" ... not for arming India specific goals .. yes US have issues thats why .. we see these incidents

Getting Pakistan to fight the US cause was not going to happen without some offset in terms of modernizing Pakistan's conventional capability wrt India - the Bush administration understood this, and is why they continue to help in that direction, the latest being the diversion of funds from COIN to upgrades for the F-16's. However, it has been shown that the F-16's at least are quite useful for COIN.

 

[batmannow]

Not at all.

This may have been part of a plan by the US to nudge/shove the GoP into taking more action.

Could have been Dubya up to his usual shenanigans.

I am encouraged by Bruce Reidel's comments (who serves on Obama's foreign policy panels) that there needs to be a more comprehensive approach to the region, and he mentioned addressing Pakistan's concerns with respect to finalizing the Durand by using US influence with the GoA.

Its the nuanced approach often advocated by Obama and his close advisors on various issues that makes me respect him - though I have to say that he is being forced to dumb down his message of late to click with all them 'workin class blue collah' folks'.

We as a nation, should stop looking these pandits of democrcy, and there is no harm to defend our country or stopping the crazy allies , crossing into pakistan.
we, should stop our (slave) like attitude towards the IMPREIALISTIC EVIL POWERS.we should start making fresh, attitude about all this (war of terror) mess, peopl's sitting in white house, congress, us sennate, in pentagon or in thier armed forces, they all think in the same way, which is to destroy pakistan.

One way or the other, they all are same!
obama or biden, mcain they dont care about pakistan, much of them rely mostly on the fake intelligence reports provided by cia, and backed by AFGHAN DRUG MAFIA.

No, country in the world , discuss US politics so much as we do?
its time to move forward, we have to make our own marks , if we want to be seen a free & nukpowerd islamic state , inthe world.
surly, we dont want war with any one, but yes we are ready to take any one who, wishes or wanted to kill our innocent civillians, by raiding them in mid night in the holy month of ramdan.
we, should give up , the our appologstic behaviour towards the enemies of our mother land.

 

[was]

****

 

[Logic note]

Atrocities were being committed by both sides taliban and NA, and before that by the other various factions - it was not solely 'blind faith', though you woudl like very much to just pin the blame on Islam in general.

You are correct that man is responsible for his own actions, and that is vindication that it is not Islam, but man that chooses to pervert any belief and use it as a means to an end.

But my point was more about Pakistan not being the sole cause for the 'monsters' we find today - teh US directly and indirectly played a large part in that creation.
.

USA Helped Afghan war for independence .. and stopped when it was achieved .. Pakistan exploited it to create Taliban ..to use afghanistan for its own selfish purpose ..

so to convert humans to monsters is the job of Pakistan .. only Pakistan ..

Getting Pakistan to fight the US cause was not going to happen without some offset in terms of modernizing Pakistan's conventional capability wrt India - the Bush administration understood this, and is why they continue to help in that direction, the latest being the diversion of funds from COIN to upgrades for the F-16's. However, it has been shown that the F-16's at least are quite useful for COIN

it is ok .. if Pakistan would have been honest in its effort in fighting the WAR .. its lack in honesty and the various deals with these terrorist led to this situation .

 

[Munir]

Not a big suprise.... It would be the first time that Zardari would speak the truth... PPP is playing a game to get cash from western powers. They wil sell Pakistan if it can bring profit for them. Unfortunaltey their voters have hardly knowledge and would never understand what is happening.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

USA Helped Afghan war for independence .. and stopped when it was achieved .. Pakistan exploited it to create Taliban ..to use afghanistan for its own selfish purpose ..

so to convert humans to monsters is the job of Pakistan .. only Pakistan ..

Wrong - this wasn't some experiment in a petri dish, where Pakistan came in and started some controlled reaction that led to the results we see today.

The foundations of the Taliban and extremism and its spread lay in the chaos and anarchy of post-Soviet Afghanistan. It lay in the confluence of various events - crime, violence, bloodshed, warlords and the influx of extremist Deobandism and Wahabism and anti-US hatred due to its role in the Mid East.

it is ok .. if Pakistan would have been honest in its effort in fighting the WAR .. its lack in honesty and the various deals with these terrorist led to this situation .

Pakistan was honest - again, why is the Bush Admin. authorizing F-16 upgrades with COIN funds, after all the fuss that has been raised over 'misuse of funds'?

The people who are not honest or not in the loop are the legislators in the US, and certain parts of the US defense establishment who periodically raise these issues to pressure Pakistan.

 

[Awesome]

Xhy6BR8Hb38[/media] - Pakistan in trouble video by Bhatti

****

It's obvious that those guys in the tribal areas are majorly pissed off due to the poor accuracy of attacks and high collateral damage.

However, Hamid Mir is a dirty yellow journalist. He's been caught yapping his big mouth time n time again fulfilling some sort of an agenda that can ALWAYS portrays the doom n gloom within Pakistan.

Actions speak louder than words. The tribals kicked a major US raid out involving 7 helicopters. They mustered a force of 300 armed men. Seems like there's a significant amount of Pakistan left in them!

Don't fall prey to these divisive forces within Pakistan. Be it Zardari, Musharraf, Kayani... These individualist issues are secondary to the cause for the defence of the nation.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Hamid Mir and his Taliban appeasing yapping again.

He says there is a big conspiracy, with the US killing civilians and helping the taliban, and what does the PA do? According to him they also go out and deliberately kill civilians and destroy their homes!

I am not sure I understand his reasoning here...

 

[Munir]

Put it simple... Do you want to be canonfodder and part of Afghanistan (top heroin producer) or a proud Pakistani with unfortunately pathetic political parties and corrupt thieves in the government?

 

[Logic note]

Wrong - this wasn't some experiment in a petri dish, where Pakistan came in and started some controlled reaction that led to the results we see today.

The foundations of the Taliban and extremism and its spread lay in the chaos and anarchy of post-Soviet Afghanistan. It lay in the confluence of various events - crime, violence, bloodshed, warlords and the influx of extremist Deobandism and Wahabism and anti-US hatred due to its role in the Mid East.

.

foundation are used to make structures ..
someone used those foundation to make Monsters and it wasnt US.. it wasnt Coldwar .. it was Pakistan and its policies ..

Pakistan was honest - again, why is the Bush Admin. authorizing F-16 upgrades with COIN funds, after all the fuss that has been raised over 'misuse of funds'?

The people who are not honest or not in the loop are the legislators in the US, and certain parts of the US defense establishment who periodically raise these issues to pressure Pakistan

and why do they need to pressure Pakistan ..? because someone is not honest ..

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Put it simple... Do you want to be canonfodder and part of Afghanistan (top heroin producer) or a proud Pakistani with unfortunately pathetic political parties and corrupt thieves in the government?

No no Munir sahib, it shoud lread like this ..

"Do you want to be canonfodder with unfortunately pathetic political parties and corrupt thieves in the government and part of Afghanistan (top heroin producer) or a proud Pakistani with unfortunately pathetic political parties and corrupt thieves in the government?"

I say Pakistan still comes out ahead by a huge mile...

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

foundation are used to make structures ..
someone used those foundation to make Monsters and it wasnt US.. it wasnt Coldwar .. it was Pakistan and its policies ..

Nope - the monsters were already there, of various shades - we just helped one shade of monsters rise above the others (the Taliban were already in existence before Pakistan, Karzai and some other Pashtun leaders in Afghanistan started supporting them), in an attempt to bring about stability, since this set of monsters seemed the best of the evils on display.

and why do they need to pressure Pakistan ..? because someone is not honest ..

Because the US has different perceptions and a different time table for this war. Pakistan has its own domestic and regional constraints it must deal with - these constraints do not factor into the US calculus, and hence its attempts to coerce Pakistan to 'do more' on its own terms.

 

[Munir]

No no Munir sahib, it shoud lread like this ..

"Do you want to be canonfodder with unfortunately pathetic political parties and corrupt thieves in the government and part of Afghanistan (top heroin producer) or a proud Pakistani with unfortunately pathetic political parties and corrupt thieves in the government?"

I say Pakistan still comes out ahead by a huge mile...

Yaar, Kazai was a consultant for the firm that wanted to build a pipeline through Afghanistan. Check 911 Fahrenheit. There is no political anything in Afghanistan. It is a failed nation that first was destroyed by Russia, Then Taleban and now USA... And instead of understanding their own situation they bark at Pakistan. I still cannot understand why someone that hates Pakistan that much was there to crown a thief as a president...

 

[BATMAN]

Xhy6BR8Hb38[/media] - Pakistan in trouble video by Bhatti

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All what this idiot does not understand that army takes written permission for every operation from Zardari+Sharif govt.
It is stupid Sharif to be credited for Zardari's Presidentship. Zardari has used Sharif like a toilet paper and now very soon will flush him down the drain.
For those who don't like Zardari but voted for Sharif should be most ashamed now and Hamid mir is definately one of those. We all know how Zardari fooled Sharif to take part in elections on first place.
Situation was grave since 9/11 and it was Zardari and Sharif who fought to for the rule now they should face the song or get aside.