Pakistani troops fire on intruding U.S. choppers

[ejaz007]

Fencing the border will not work in my opinion. Nothing can be done to solve anything as long as orders are being handed down by the US and our leaders are infatuated by the west to the point of shame (Zardari meeting Palin comes to mind).

Whats so shameful about meeting Paline except for a comment made by Mr. Zardari. In my view that comment is not what one might call shameful. She might be the next vice president and one needs to have a working relationship with her.

If you want to be shameful read the book of our last great leader Mr. Musharaf that is shameful.

 

[muse]

The Border and the Durand Line are not big worries - the Afghans know it is the border, what allows them to keep barking is the fact that there is no Pakistani government presence in that area - I don't mean stationing FC or army, I'm talking about full scale Pakistani presence with schools and colleges, bussinesses, roads connecting the areas internally and with other provinces, no development basically - when you are there, you can tell that the area is simply not Pakistan as you understand it -- it's not that they do not want it, heck they want it on the other side of the Durand line, the fact of the matter is that politicians see it as a reservation.

FATA, and PATA, and feudalism go together, they are part and parcel of the ****** system - these kinds of entities and systems are a anachronism - they cannot deliver, cannot function to bring people into Pakistan, let alone the world.

To see an Afghanistan that is reasonable, because believe it or not, absolutely everything in Afghanistan is from Pakistan and Iran, Pakistan itself must be seen as a power of hope - that means education and jobs, a connection with the rest of the world - and for that to happen in the border areas, FATA, PATA and tribalism and feudalism, must be allowed to die, to wither away and replaced by the state for basic services such law and order, electric and water and sewage and no one needs to teach the people to do business - everyone says that pakthun are warlike and crude and to a degree this is a function of ignorance, but if you don't believe me, see it with your own eyes, Pakhtun are born businessmen, they may be a nation of rented warriors, but in truth they are a nation of shop keepers.

The people there deserve to be helped, derserve the full services of the state, it's not that they do not want ot be full Pakistanis, but the State must want them to be as well.

 

[maqsad]

Whats so shameful about meeting Paline except for a comment made by Mr. Zardari. In my view that comment is not what one might call shameful. She might be the next vice president and one needs to have a working relationship with her.

If you want to be shameful read the book of our last great leader Mr. Musharaf that is shameful.

No need to even read the book, you can just read the back cover of the book where he brags about selling pakistani souls to the CIA for money under the guise of a war on a noun which is based on the biggest lie of the 21st century.

 

[Kharian_Beast]

Whats so shameful about meeting Paline except for a comment made by Mr. Zardari. In my view that comment is not what one might call shameful. She might be the next vice president and one needs to have a working relationship with her.

If you want to be shameful read the book of our last great leader Mr. Musharaf that is shameful.

He came across as an old pervert to most people, at a time when Palin's country is busy undermining Pakistan one would expect sober minded serious people. I'm already aware of Musharraf being shameless

 

[muse]

 

[RabzonKhan]

Pakistani American Congress demands immediate end to unilateral actions

WASHINGTON, Sep 29 (APP): Voicing its deep concern over recent escalation of tensions along Pak-Afghan border, Pakistani American Congress - an umbrella organization of countrywide bodies - has demanded an immediate end to unilateral actions into Pakistani territory by U.S.-led forces from across the Afghan border.

“We think direct military actions inside Pakistan will prove counterproductive and will create a bigger crisis for both the United States and Pakistan---- we demand all foreign attacks on Pakistan must be stopped now for the sake of peace,” the PAC said in statement at an event where American experts on South Asia expressed their perspectives on the situation.

Dr Khawaja Ashraf, president of the Congress that “seeks to promote US-Pakistan friendship, goodwill and understanding,” said the two countries cannot afford a new conflict while fighting violent extremism. “Mutual trust and close strategic partnership is needed in the Pakistan-U.S. ties. The U.S. must appreciate that Pakistan has lost more lives in the war (on terror) than all coalition forces.”

He urged administrations in both countries to exercise restraint in order to immediately stop harmful actions.

“The U.S.-Pakistan friendship should not be turned into a conflict which could set South Asia on fire. It will hurt the US credibility and image. Such unilateral actions will also hurt the US image as a military power and leader of the Western world. Moreover such unilateral actions are pushing the US towards isolation and inviting universal condemnation,” he said in a statement.

The Pakistani Americans, he said, should strive to “convince the U.S. Administration to halt any aggression against Pakistan and let Pakistan deal with violence its own way.”

Dr Nisar Chaudhry, an eminent Pakistani American, said the U.S. unilateral actions will jeopardize democracy in Pakistan and underscored the need for understanding the sensitivities of the people of the tribal areas.

“In order to win this war it is crucial to have dialogue, reconciliation, education, health-care, creation of jobs, infrastructure and building of trust,” the PAC leaders said.

American journalist Jonathan Landay, who has covered Pakistan extensively, briefly looked into reasons behind extremists getting strengthened in the tribal areas. He said the region is “in the grip of a serious situation” and criticized both allies for it. He agreed that recent developments like Washington…trade;s support for US-India nuclear deal and ruling out the same for Pakistan in future creates doubts among Pakistanis that the US is playing a game and resorting tooff-again on-again relationship.

He supported a comprehensive strategy to address the problem of extremism that should include economic, democratic and security measures.

Walter Anderson, Director South Asia at Johns Hopkins University said tribesmen’s support in the fight against terrorists is an encouraging sign. He disagreed with the suggestion that the United States had failed in its fight against extremism in Afghanistan, asserting “it is a work in progress.”

Rodney Jones from Policy Architects International stressed the importance of pursuing a political process for the local people to extend governance over tribal areas.

The American experts felt if the security situation does not improve along the Afghan border and attacks on the US troops based in the country continue, the next president emerging from November elections might not change the policy of unilateral strikes against suspected hideouts on the Pakistani side of the border while the Pakistani Americans called upon the US presidential candidates to look for ways to forge peace in the region instead of making claims about their ability to fight better extremism militarily.

 

[RabzonKhan]

What will Canada do about Pakistan

The Hill Times,
September 29th, 2008
LETTERS

What will Canada do about Pakistan, asks Hueglin
Pakistan is being invaded by American troops. One possible result is action that will cut off the supplies flowing through Pakistan that sustain the military activities of the Americans and their allies.

The Government of Canada has been saying "me too" to American initiatives. Supporting American anti-missile bases in Poland on the Russian borders; recognizing the independence of Kosovo against UN resolutions; backing the Americans in seeking to have Georgia become a member of NATO; echoing the U.S. position that Georgia was correct in invading South Ossetia and Russia wrong in intervening.

Pashtun tribal chiefs in the attacked areas have met and have stated, "If America doesn't stop attacks in tribal areas, we will prepare a lashkar [army] to attack U.S. forces in Afghanistan," and as well, "We will also seek support from the tribal elders in Afghanistan to fight jointly against America."

The 40 million members of the Pashtun tribes are in continuing feuds among themselves. They act together only when threatened by external forces. Should the Americans persist in their policy of attacking Afghanistan's tribal areas and if the tribes that have been neutral take action, be assured there will be no differentiation made between Canadian and American Forces.

The Government of Canada is duty bound not to support this American initiative thereby placing our troops in increased danger but rather to press for negotiations.

Joe Hueglin

Niagara Falls, Ont.

(The letter-writer is a member
of the Progressive Canadian Party and a former Progressive Conservative MP.)

 

[BATMAN]

The Pak govt and the Pak military need to stop taking bribes from the west and figure out how to function with dignity for their own country. This has to be one of the big factors in corrupting Pakistan to the point of civil war. The Pak army has been ordered by both Mushy and Zardari to attack and kill it's own citizens. Why? Why create a civil war in your country because you got bribed a few billion---do you not have the strength and intelligence to stand on your own two feet or is there so much anti-pakistan corruption within the govt itself that pakistan is doomed to split in two?

You seems to be confused how a state function or an organization function!
No money comes in hard cash and whatever comes is not dispersed among individuals, if so is the case than it should be much easier to point out the recipient.
It is Pakistan govt. who receive all financial re-imbursement in its state banks and not in any one's personal bank! remember this.
It is treasury or finance ministry which decide the eventual fate of any such finances and should have all record available for any audit.
IMO, finance ministry is only transferrign the amount which is against the running expenses and nothing more.
So by this formulae Pakarmy may have only recieved only fraction of total financial package.
Rest assure if Pak army would have received any amount reaching to billions it may have been a big story by now.
but again the question is where such re-imbursement in lieu of aid is going?
What is the chain of process?
I leave it to you to figure out and tell us what you found!

 

[RabzonKhan]

Violations of Sovereignty: U.S. Raids on Pakistan

by Brian Cloughley | September 27, 2008

Henry Kissinger was no amateur when it came to illegally bombing and invading countries that he and the evil President Nixon considered did not meet American requirements of unconditional servility, but even he must be intrigued about the latest antics of Washington's finest. The vice president of the United States, a charmless and despotic bully, and his president, he of the close-set eyeballs and pretensions to dignity, recently excelled themselves in self-delusion concerning their unlawful invasion of Iraq and their fury with nations whose governments fail to toe the Washington line.

In their latest spasm of bizarre fantasy both Bush and Cheney condemned Russia for its military reply to Georgia's merciless rocketing of South Ossetia and the killing of scores of its citizens. There is no doubt that Russia had been waiting for an opportunity to teach Georgia a lesson for its treatment of Russian-origin inhabitants of the enclave, and when the US-educated, US-supported Georgian president, Mikheil Saakashvili, was so stupid as to send in troops following his slaughter of civilians, the Russians gave them a hiding. In spite of all the training they received over the past five years from US instructors, and the generous amounts of equipment they acquired, they fled the Russian advance. But Washington intends to have Georgia continue as a US-supporting military base area along Russia's border, and in order to emphasize its anti-Russian stance Washington arranged for NATO to hold a high level meeting in Georgia last week (which, it was claimed, was planned "a long time ago.").

As usual, rather than trying to engage Russia through diplomacy, Washington chose confrontation. And this is where the funny bit is, because Cheney declared that "We believe in the right of men and women to live without the threat of tyranny, economic blackmail or military invasion or intimidation."

It is difficult to believe that the man was being serious, but there was no shade of irony in his delivery. He believed what he was saying, while ignoring the fact that the US has manipulated the UN to impose savage sanctions (economic blackmail) on countries that don't toe the US line. Of even more importance he ignored the fact that only a few days before his pronouncement there had been gross violation of Pakistan's sovereignty by the US when its troop s crossed Pakistan's border and killed civilians. The people of North West Frontier Province - the people of Pakistan - suffered "military invasion and intimidation."

Last month Bush declared that "We insist that Georgia's sovereignty and territorial integrity be respected" which might have been a fairly good point to make were it not for the fact that he has no respect for the sovereignty or territorial integrity of any country when criminal violation suits his purpose. The illegal cowboy foray into Pakistan was not denied by Washington; it was merely ignored with that degree of would-be-majestic superiority that is the hallmark of colossal colonial arrogance. Associated Press reported that "a spokesman for the US-led coalition in Afghanistan said it had "no information to give" about the alleged operation, while a spokesman for NATO troops denied any involvement. The US embassy in Islamabad declined to comment." No surprises there.

It doesn't seem to matter to Americans that the blitz conducted by their troops resulted in the deaths of six women and two children, citizens of Pakistan. There has been no indication of regret or sympathy ; not a shred of remorse for killing children. For how long can the non-American world tolerate this sort of barbaric malevolence? In America it doesn't matter, because 'Support Our Troops!' is the American mantra, especially in election year, and if a US citizen doesn't wave the flag and say that American troops are wonderful, even when killing kids in Pakistan, then they are regarded as unpatriotic, which is a dreadful crime.

To justify the slaughter the usual highly-placed anonymous US official told 20the New York Times that "The situation in the tribal areas is not tolerable. We have to be more assertive. Orders have been issued."

You can hear the Hitlerian resonance in this, straight from Cheney and Bush. It has hideous echoes of "My patience is exhausted," before Fascist Germany invaded its neighbors - and of the justification that "Befehl ist Befehl" : "an order is an order," as the Gestapo herded terrified women and children into concentration camps and then to gas chambers. (In fact some of the victims in the Guantanamo Bay concentration camp would welcome death by gassing, it being preferable to the vicious torture they are undergoing.) The American attitude, under Bush, is one of intolerance and macho contempt for any who dare to display independence. "We have to be more assertive" is a chilling declaration of what motiva tes the Washington administration. It is unlikely to change, irrespective of who is the next president.

President Zardari of Pakistan showed considerable courage last week when he said that "We will not tolerate the violation of our sovereignty and territorial integrity by any power in the name of combating terrorism," if only because we have learned what happens to presidents and countries who offend the mighty empire. Pakistan has been dumped before by America. It appears that it is important for the moment, but neither sovereignty not diplomacy are of concern to Washington. Pakistan's government had better be very careful.

 

[Raquib]

Pakistan condemns US strikes in border regions

By ASIF SHAHZAD, Associated Press Writer
1 hour, 16 minutes ago

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan - U.S. missile attacks on suspected militants in Pakistan's northwest near Afghanistan were undermining the war on terror and "helping the terrorists," the Muslim nation's Foreign Ministry said Friday.

The comments came as a suicide bomber attacked an anti-insurgent group in a northwest tribal area, killing at least 22. The Orakzai area tribesmen had gathered to plan the demolition of a militant base.

Al-Qaida and Taliban fighters have established bases throughout Pakistan's semiautonomous tribal regions, where they are said to plan attacks on U.S. and NATO forces in Afghanistan as well violence in Pakistan.

Washington has pushed Pakistan to eliminate such insurgent sanctuaries.

Pakistan has carried out military offensives against insurgents while also trying to woo various tribes to turn against the extremists. Some pro-government tribes have set up militias to fight insurgents.

But in a sign of U.S. impatience with Pakistani efforts, American forces have stepped up their own cross-border assaults on alleged militant targets.

The U.S. is suspected in at least 11 missile strikes on the Pakistan side of the Afghan border since mid-August, killing more than 100 people, most of them alleged militants, according to an Associated Press count based on figures provided by Pakistan intelligence officials.

The United States rarely confirms or denies the attacks, which Pakistan's military and civilian leaders have criticized as violations of the country's sovereignty.

"We want them (the United States) to realize that these attacks are destabilizing the situation, and they are not helping them or Pakistan," Pakistan foreign ministry spokesman Mohammed Sadiq told The AP. "They are helping the terrorists."

The strikes are unpopular among many Pakistanis and used by critics and Muslim conservatives to rally support in their campaign to unseat the country's broadly secular, pro-U.S. government.

The most recent alleged U.S. attack took place late Thursday in North Waziristan and killed at least nine people, between six and eight of them suspected foreign militants, intelligence officials said. They said they were trying to establish the identities of the victims.

The tribal regions also are considered potential hiding places for al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden, his deputy Ayman al-Zawahri and other non-Pakistani militants.

Friday's suicide attack occurred in Orakzai, a tribal region near the main northwest city of Peshawar that has been relatively peaceful.

Some 500 people of the Alikhel tribe, which has set up a militia to fight insurgents, were gathered when the attacker struck. The tribesmen intended to destroy a major militant base, said Sher Akbar Khan, a government official.

"Initial reports suggest that the suicide bomber rammed an explosive-laden vehicle into the gathering," Khan said.

He said 17 people died at the scene or at a nearby hospital. Walayat Khan, an official at another hospital nearby, said five people died there.

Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani condemned the suicide attack in a statement.

Also Friday, government official Jamil Ahmad accused militants of beheading four pro-government tribal elders Thursday in Bajur tribal region, the scene of the some of the heaviest fighting between Pakistani troops and insurgents.

___

Associated Press writers Habib Khan in Khar, Riaz Khan in Peshawar, and Munir Ahmad in Islamabad contributed to this report.


Pakistan condemns US strikes in border regions - Yahoo! News

 

[dr.umer]

Pakistan condemns US strikes in border regions

Condemnation alone is not enough and I doubt if Pakistanis are going to swallow it after President Zardari gave a hint recently that his govt "allowed" US strikes in Pakistan's territory.

GOP should stop making fun of herself and nation.

 

[RabzonKhan]

British Pakistanis concerned over NATO strikes

* UK MP writes to NATO secretary general asking him to avoid incursions * Jaap de Hoop defends NATO’s role

October 10, 2008. LONDON: The British Pakistani community has expressed concern over NATO-led forces’ attacks inside Pakistani territory and asked the organisation to refrain from such actions. British Member of Parliament Lord Nazir Ahmad expressed the concern in a letter to NATO Secretary General Jaap de Hoop Scheffer. Ahmad said in the letter that American and NATO forces continued to infringe on Pakistan’s sovereignty by carrying out attacks through missiles and helicopter gunships in North Waziristan.

“This has led to destabilisation in Pakistan and has increased extremism. There is an increase in anti-west and anti-American sentiments. There is also a major concern that the NATO policy will lead to further destabilisation. If these policies continue similar to that those in Afghanistan, the Pakistani government may not be effective in the war on terror,” Ahmad writes in the letter. He said that an escalation of the problem would be detrimental to the region as well as the world.

Defending NATO: In his letter, the NATO secretary general defended his organisations’ engagement in Afghanistan. According to Scheffer, regional dynamics have led NATO to see the security situation in south and east Afghanistan and in the border regions of Pakistan as two sides of the same coin. Last stability in either country cannot be achieved unless insurgency and terrorism are addressed effectively on both sides of the border, Scheffer writes.More.

 

[RabzonKhan]

U.S. Strikes in Pakistan Help Terrorists, Gilani Says

By Khaleeq Ahmed and Michael Heath

Oct. 27 (Bloomberg) -- U.S. drone strikes on Pakistani territory are undermining the government's efforts to isolate terrorists from the local population in tribal regions bordering Afghanistan, Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani said.

``Such acts are counterproductive and help terrorists to strengthen their position,'' Gilani told reporters yesterday after returning from a summit in China, where he said no nation has the right to attack Pakistan.

A suspected U.S. drone fired missiles into the South Waziristan region late yesterday, killing 20 people including a Taliban leader, the British Broadcasting Corp. reported, citing witnesses. The commander, Mohammad Omar, died when his residence was destroyed and two neighboring houses were damaged in Mandatta village, it said. More.

 

[RabzonKhan]

Fairly good assessment of the situation, but sadly this is going to fly over the heads of neocons. As long as the neocons are in the White house nothing is going to change.


Editorial: Counterproductive US raids into FATA

November 03, 2008

As “drone attacks” increase from across the
Durand Line into Pakistan’s Federally Administered Tribal Areas (FATA), Prime Minister Yousaf Raza Gilani said in Islamabad Saturday that “American and NATO missile strikes inside Pakistan are counterproductive in the war on terror and the world should urge the United States to stop the incursions”. He also said that his government was trying to isolate the Taliban from “reconcilable elements” in the Tribal Areas.

There may have been a time in the past when the drone attacks were helpful in backing up military operations by the Pakistan army. Today, however, as these operations proceed satisfactorily in Bajaur and Swat, with some action also taken in other agencies such as Aurakzai and Mohmand, the tide is slowly turning in favour of Pakistan’s efforts to reclaim the territory it had lost to the terrorists. There are elements in the new conflict landscape that now militate against the use of indiscriminate drone attacks.

For the first time, the Taliban are on the defensive and are pledging to cease hostilities and are suing for talks. Also for the first time, the people subject to the coercive control of the Taliban in the past have formed their own militias called lashkars and are fighting against them in tandem with the Pakistan army. This military action has served to water down the dominant opinion in Pakistan that, because the war is being lost, it is not Pakistan’s war. Those who hold this view constantly point to attacks from the ISAF-NATO forces from across the Durand Line and rebuke the government with having lost the state’s sovereignty to the US.

The drones may be killing some high-value terrorist targets — one is never sure about that — but they are also killing a lot of positive psychological forces in Pakistan without whose support this war cannot be won. The Pakistani parliament in a joint statement of both houses has given the military the go-ahead to operate against those who bear arms and talk to those who are willing to throw them down. The debate that occurred in the parliament equally voiced its strong protest against the US for attacking inside Pakistan and causing unacceptable collateral damage.

There are very cogent reasons why this collateral damage is not acceptable to the government and the Pakistan army. The tribesmen react strongly against collateral damage and revert to their traditional defiance by joining the forces they see opposed to the US and NATO presence in Afghanistan. Unless Pakistan is seen by them to be also fighting these cross-border US attacks, they tend to equate the Pakistan army with the US policy of killing innocent people. Let us be frank, for them “high value targets” mean nothing. Additionally, there is the hinterland reaction to take care of.

“Anti-Americanism” has increased in Pakistan and hit a peak, thanks also to the policy of drone attacks. The hinterland of settled areas has joined the tribesmen in seeing these attacks as being against the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Pakistan. They condemn the government for not taking “prompt action” to bring the drone attacks to a halt. The generally accepted “solution” is for the government to say that it is not Pakistan’s war and get out of the international coalition against terrorism. This situation is very embarrassing for the army which is clearly succeeding against the Taliban but needs popular support to carry on.

The drone attacks have become a part of the anti-American rhetoric that is difficult to oppose. Above all, it is destroying the coordination which the war against terrorism demands between the Pakistan army and the US-NATO forces in Afghanistan. Things have come to such a pass that on a given day, the Foreign Office and the military information service, the ISPR, spend more time condemning the cross-border drone and missile attacks than the militancy of the Taliban. This is not good for the morale of those who are fighting the terrorists and hope to reach a point where they can challenge the dominance of Al Qaeda in the area.

The policy behind the drone attacks — that of keeping the Taliban on the defensive inside Pakistan to prevent their cross-border raids — is not succeeding because it is creating more potential seekers of revenge and killing far fewer top-notch terrorists than would be required for an all overall favourable effect. Instead, a policy of identifying the “high-value targets” to the Pakistan army and allowing it to decide what to do about them should serve the cause of war against terrorism better. A more effective arrangement can be made for this policy than has hitherto existed. One way to do that would be for the US to give a few drones to the Pakistan army so that these can become part of the Pakistani army’s arsenal in the war against terror. Then the US and Pakistan military authorities can coordinate Pakistani drone attacks on terrorist hideouts without provoking an anti-American backlash and undermining the war against terror. *

 

[RescueRanger]

Forget SWAT and NA, this in unacceptable to us sitting in the comfort of urbanised areas, and goes against the Oslo Accord for humanitarian protection ( not that America cares).

All those internally displaced people are going to suffer this winter and this is going to further impact on development in a negative way and increase the recruitment pool for those who would be susceptible to radicalization by militants.