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Pakistani troops fire on intruding U.S. choppers

well before speaking about both the incidents indeed i confirmed from the direct concerned ones ;)

So i had laught at the statements from both the side first time too and if they come up tommorrow with the same statment my lungs will have some excercise again :azn:

Hounrable jana, mam
you have dangerous conections, :eek::tup::D
 
Page last updated at 15:05 GMT, Monday, 22 September 2008 16:05 UK


Pakistan troops 'repel US raid'

Tensions show no sign of abating in the border area
Pakistani troops have fired warning shots at two US helicopters forcing them back into Afghanistan, local Pakistani intelligence officials say.

The helicopters flew into the tribal North Waziristan region from Afghanistan's Khost province at around midnight, the reports say.


Tensions have risen after an increase in US attacks targeting militants.

The incident comes amid mounting security fears after a militant bomb attack on the Islamabad Marriott hotel.

Pakistan's army has said it will defend the country's sovereignty and reserves the right to retaliate to any border violations.

The government has said it will take targeted action against the militants, promising raids in some "hotspots" near the border with Afghanistan.

Meanwhile in the city of Peshawar, Afghan consul Abdul Khaliq Farahi was kidnapped after six unidentified men ambushed his car, officials say. His driver died in the attack.

'Firing in the air'

Last week Pakistani troops fired into the air to prevent US ground troops crossing the border into South Waziristan.

BORDER TENSIONS

3 Sept: First reported ground assault by US troops in Pakistan - Islamabad responds furiously
15 Sept: Pakistani troops reportedly fire in air to stop US troops crossing in S Waziristan
17 Sept: Top US military chief Adm Mike Mullen visits Pakistan to calm tensions
16 Sept: Pakistan says it was not told of fresh US missile strike
22 Sept: Pakistani troops in fresh firing to deter US incursion into N Waziristan, officials say


Confusion over Marriott 'escape'
'We are all in pain and agony'

The latest confrontation between US and Pakistani forces took place in North Waziristan's sparsely populated Ghulam Khan district, west of the main town in the region, Miranshah, local officials say.

They told the BBC that troops at border posts in the mountainous region fired at two US helicopters which crossed into Pakistani territory.

The helicopters returned to Afghanistan without retaliating.

A senior security official based in Islamabad told the AFP news agency that the helicopters had been repelled by both army troops and soldiers from the paramilitary Frontier Corps (FC).

"The helicopters were heading towards our border. We were alert and when they were right on the boundary line we started aerial firing. They hovered for a few minutes and went back," the official said.

"About 30 minutes later they made another attempt. We retaliated again, firing in the air and not in their direction, from both the army position and the FC position, and they went back."



A Pakistani military spokesman, Maj Murad Khan, said he had no information "on border violation by the American helicopters".

The US military in Afghanistan also said it had no information on the incident.

The BBC's Barbara Plett in Islamabad says after increased American incursions this month, the army stressed that it reserved the right to retaliate.

Our correspondent says standard procedure would be to first fire warning shots.

'Crisis in relations'

The two countries held talks last week on anti-militant co-ordination.


Anti-US feelings are on the rise in Pakistan

America's top military officer, Admiral Mike Mullen, flew to Islamabad to try to calm the crisis in relations but tensions remain high, our correspondent says.

As well as reported incursions, there have been a number of US missile attacks aimed at militants in Pakistan territory in recent weeks.

The Americans stepped up their strikes after criticism that Pakistani troops were unable or unwilling to eliminate Taleban sanctuaries along the border.

Waziristan is one of the main areas from which Islamist militants launch attacks into Afghanistan.

It emerged earlier this month that US President George W Bush has in recent months authorised military raids against militants inside Pakistan without prior approval from Islamabad.

Pakistan reacted with diplomatic fury when US helicopters landed troops in South Waziristan on 3 September. It was the first ground assault by US troops in Pakistan.

Pakistan's army has warned that the aggressive US policy will widen the insurgency by uniting tribesmen with the Taleban.


BBC NEWS | South Asia | Pakistan troops 'repel US raid'
 
A Pakistani military spokesman, Maj Murad Khan, said he had no information "on border violation by the American helicopters".

The US military in Afghanistan also said it had no information on the incident.

According to some US reports, there are protocols agreed between the two armies such as firing warning shots when US army does cross the boarder.

It may be just warning shots.

I don’t think US, though apparently impatient, can afford to ruffle Pakistan’s feathers.
 
Well , this is the situation, i was affraid off, CIA testing pakarmy.
its not the helos went back because of our small armsfire, but its a new stratgy bieng implemented here.
by doing that what they are looking for, it is the question, we should be thinking for.:smokin:
:sniper::usflag::tup:
 
According to some US reports, there are protocols agreed between the two armies such as firing warning shots when US army does cross the boarder.

It may be just warning shots.

I don’t think US, though apparently impatient, can afford to ruffle Pakistan’s feathers.

Well i dont know about face saving statment or reports from US ;)

But i do know that Army has been asked not to shoot down the helicopters but do fire to scare them off.

Now why US helicopters will corss the border in the first place if US army has agreed to get warning shots from Pakistan Army if they do so???

:pop:
 
According to some US reports, there are protocols agreed between the two armies such as firing warning shots when US army does cross the boarder.

It may be just warning shots.

I don’t think US, though apparently impatient, can afford to ruffle Pakistan’s feathers.

Dear gpit; sir,
Well can you plz, show the source about your claim.:eek::disagree:
 
...

Now why US helicopters will corss the border in the first place if US army has agreed to get warning shots from Pakistan Army if they do so???

:pop:

:wave:I totally agree with you… US should absolutely keep their stuff within Afghanistan. Actually I'd like to ask a question, since I do not have pilot experience. I don’t know how difficult it is to keep it from crossing boarder if a helicopter is really close to the boarder. But I am aware that even a strong gust can blow the chopper off course. If I’m wrong, hope somebody can point it out. Having said that, I still would like US army to do their best to estimate the strength of the potential gust and keep a safe distance.
 
Last edited:
Dear gpit; sir,
Well can you plz, show the source about your claim.:eek::disagree:

Dear batmannow, I heard the news from Bloomberg Radio (The First Word program) approximately 8:30 DST this morning (Sept.22, 2008) around great NY area. I searched their Radio website upon your demand. Apparently they do not leave a copy there. if I find later on, I'll let you know.
 
:wave:I totally agree with you… US should absolutely keep their stuff within Afghanistan. Actually I'd like to ask a question, since I do not have pilot experience. I don’t know how difficult it is to keep it from crossing boarder if a helicopter is really close to the boarder. But I am aware that even a strong gust can blow the chopper off course. If I’m wrong, hope somebody can point it out. Having said that, I still would like US army to do their best to estimate the strength of the potential gust and keep a safe distance.

:) :) Well dear you might be right about strong gusts but as far as i know the wheather in my province and bordering Afghan areas is not as such.

Plus the strange thing is that NATO/US is there for last 7 , 8 years during all these years their helicopters were never affected by strong gust so now suddenly if their helis are being blown into Pakistani areas by strong gusts ;) well that should be cause concern for us.
 
After Bombing, Pakistan’s President Is Pressured
NYTimes.com

By SALMAN MASOOD
Published: September 21, 2008

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan — Pakistan continued Sunday to reel from the deadly truck bomb blast at the Marriott Hotel here on Saturday, as the government described the bombing as an attack on democracy.

“Our enemies don’t want to see democracy flourishing in the country,” Rehman Malik, a senior Interior Ministry official, said at a news conference here on Sunday, adding that the attack was meant to sabotage Pakistan’s integrity and economy.

The bombing, the most brazen yet apparently in a campaign by militants to destabilize Pakistan, came at a critical moment for the new president, Asif Ali Zardari. While he has pledged to continue fighting militants — now thriving in the tribal areas near the border with Afghanistan — it was unclear whether he would face political resistance making it more difficult to keep that promise.

There has always been a strong feeling in Pakistani society that using force against militants would cause them to retaliate against civilians. Although there has been no claim of responsibility for the hotel bombing, some Pakistanis say they believe it was in retribution for the military’s current campaign in Bajaur, in the tribal areas.

Mr. Zardari also faces pressure to avoid doing the bidding of the Bush administration, because Pakistanis are largely opposed to American policies in the region. That sentiment grew after reports that American Special Operations forces had entered Pakistan early this month. Mr. Zardari headed on Sunday to New York, where he will meet with President Bush this week on the sidelines of the United Nations General Assembly.

In the wake of the bombing, politicians and the military said they were determined to press the fight in the tribal areas.

“There should be no letup now in fighting those who do not believe in negotiations and are bent upon causing destruction,” said Amir Haider Khan Hoti, the chief minister of the North-West Frontier Province.

Current and former officials in the Bush administration, who have expressed concern in the past that Pakistan was not doing enough to fight the militants, said on Sunday that they were confident that Mr. Zardari’s government would continue or even increase its counterterrorism campaign, despite the threat of more attacks against civilian targets like the Marriott Hotel.

“The terrorist groups are ratcheting up the pressure against the Pakistani politicians, but you won’t see the Pakistani government back down because of these attacks,” said Xenia Dormandy, who directed South Asia affairs at the National Security Council until 2005.

Meanwhile, the death toll in the hotel blast rose to 53, with at least 266 people wounded, officials said on Sunday. Two Americans were among the dead.

Mr. Malik, the Interior Ministry official, said Pakistani officials suspected that militants from the tribal areas were responsible.

“All roads lead to FATA,” Mr. Malik said, referring to the Federally Administered Tribal Areas.

He said that more than 1,300 pounds of explosives were used, adding that the blast created a crater about 60 feet wide and 25 feet deep.

He also released a videotape showing a six-wheel dump truck stopped by security guards at a barrier in front of the hotel’s main entrance. A few gunshots were heard, and after a small explosion the front part of the truck caught fire. It burned for about three minutes as three to four security guards were seen running away and then returning as one guard tried to put out the fire with an extinguisher.

Mr. Malik said investigators were still trying to determine whether the attacker was killed by gunfire from the security guards or explosives detonating inside the truck cabin, or whether he got out of the truck and then detonated an explosive device.

Rescue workers pulled five bodies out of the hotel wreckage on Sunday, as excavators used a crane to clear the debris. Officials had believed, at first, that many people were trapped inside the burning hotel and had feared a much higher death toll.

Mr. Malik said the investigation into the attack would be conducted only by Pakistani authorities.

“We don’t need any help; we reject it,” he said when asked about an offer from the United States to send F.B.I. agents.

Pakistani officials said at least 106 people, including 11 foreigners, had been admitted to hospitals in Islamabad. Those foreigners included four Americans, four Saudis, a Briton, an Afghan and a Lebanese. One Vietnamese person and the Czech ambassador to Pakistan were among the dead.

On Sunday afternoon, distraught relatives milled about anxiously outside one hospital, the Pakistan Institute of Medical Sciences.

Dr. Samia Ali, 33, said she had been visiting Islamabad to attend her sister’s wedding and came to the hospital to volunteer. She said most of the patients she had seen had severe burns, head injuries and cuts.

Luqman Khan, 25, was lying on a bed in a surgical ward of the institute on Sunday. He was operated on for a head injury on Saturday night. Mr. Khan said he had worked at a government building across the road from the Marriott.

“A truck filled with bricks was aflame near the entrance,” he said. “People were shouting, ‘Get away! Run away!’ After a few minutes, there was a big explosion. I fell unconscious.”

On Sunday the police had cordoned off the blast site, and dozens of people stood by in a somber mood.

Shahid Kamal, 42, a freelance editor, said he was sick of the wave of violence that had engulfed Pakistan, especially in the tribal areas.

“This is a reaction of what is going on in FATA,” he said. “We have been implementing a reckless and careless policy for a number of years. What’s happening in FATA is that Pakistanis are killing Pakistanis.”

Muhammad Qadeer, 36, a security guard, said perhaps the Indians could be involved.

“It can be the work of America also,” Mr. Qadeer said. “Maybe our new president didn’t agree to its dictations.”
Carlotta Gall contributed reporting from Islamabad, and Eric Schmitt from Washington
 
By CHRIS BRUMMITT, Associated Press Writer

Monday, September 22, 2008

U.S. helicopters flew into Pakistan's militant-infested border region, but returned to Afghanistan after troops and tribesmen opened fire, intelligence officials said Monday. Washington denied the account.

The alleged incident late Sunday threatened new rifts between the United States and its key ally against terrorism days after a truck bomb struck a luxury hotel in Islamabad, killing 53 people.

Late Monday, Dubai-based TV channel Al-Arabiya said it had received a tape from a shadowy group calling itself "Fedayeen Al-Islam" — Arabic for "Islam commandos" — claiming responsibility for the bombing and urging Pakistan to end cooperation with Washington.

In the northwestern city of Peshawar, gunmen kidnapped Afghanistan's ambassador-designate Monday and killed his driver.

Pakistan is under growing U.S. pressure to act against al-Qaida and Taliban insurgents sheltering in its border region and blamed for rising attacks on coalition troops in Afghanistan and suicide bombings in Pakistan.

U.S. officials believe that al-Qaida's leaders, including Osama bin Laden, are hiding somewhere along the border.

A series of suspected U.S. missile strikes into the lawless region and a Sept. 3 raid by U.S. commandos said to have killed 15 people have highlighted U.S. impatience and angered many Pakistanis.

Two intelligence officials said on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak to the media said two U.S. helicopters crossed one mile into Pakistan in the Alwara Mandi area in North Waziristan on Sunday.

Citing informants in the field, they said Pakistani troops and tribesmen responded with small arms fire, but it was not clear whether it was aimed at the choppers or just warning shots.

The helicopters did not return fire and re-entered Afghan airspace without landing, the officials said.

That account was denied by Pentagon officials. "There was no such incursion; there was no such event," said Defense Department spokesman Col. Gary L. Keck,

White House press secretary Dana Perino, talking to reporters on Air Force One about the report, said: "I would question that report, and I'm going to refer to the Department of Defense for the veracity of the report, but that has been debunked."

Pakistan's army said it had no information on the reported incursion across the poorly demarcated border.

Its military chief and newly elected President Asif Ali Zardari have said the missile strikes and incursions were violations of Pakistan's sovereignty and only fueled extremist violence.

Zardari, who is expected to meet President Bush in New York on the sidelines of the U.N. General Assembly this week, reiterated that he welcomed U.S. intelligence help, but not its troops.

"Give us the intelligence and we will do the job," he said in an interview with NBC. "It's better done by our forces than yours."

Some 270 people were wounded in the Saturday night attack on the heavily guarded Marriott hotel. The dead included the Czech ambassador and two U.S. Defense Department employees.

Most of the victims were Pakistanis, a fact that could bolster government efforts to present the struggle against the militants as its own battle, not one foisted upon it by Washington as many here think.

Al-Arabiya television said the group that claimed responsibility for the attack demanded an end to Pakistani-American cooperation against the militants and a halt to U.S. military operations in Pakistani tribal regions.

The U.S. Embassy warned its employees to limit their movement to travel to and from the embassy and to shopping for essential items only. It also warned all Americans to stay away from crowds, keep a low profile, and avoid setting patterns by varying times and routes for all required travel.

State Department spokesman Robert Wood said the attack showed the need for Pakistanis, Afghans and the U.S. to redouble efforts against extremists in the region.

"This was a heinous act that was committed by terrorists who have no interest in anything other than maiming and killing innocent civilians. And we're going to step up our efforts and work with the Pakistanis to do what we can," he said.

Interior Ministry chief Rehman Malik said Zardari, the prime minister and other top government officials were due to dine at the Marriott on Saturday, but they decided to change venue at the last minute. A spokesman for the hotel owner denied this.

"We didn't have any reservation of such a dinner that the government official is talking about," Jamil Khawar told The Associated Press.

Malik said that "perhaps the terrorists knew" the Marriott was the site of the government dinner, adding the decision to switch venues "saved the entire leadership."

Malik had said Sunday the Marriott was likely targeted because the attack would get tremendous attention. But Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani said the bomber attacked the hotel only after security kept him from reaching parliament or the premier's residence, both less than a mile away.

Pakistani officials and analysts have said they expect the bombing investigation to lead to the border regions.

But Amir Mohammad, an aide to prominent Pakistani Taliban leader Baitullah Mehsud, said his chief was not involved and shared the nation's grief.

Mehsud was blamed by the last government for a suicide attack that killed Zardari's wife, the pro-U.S. politician Benazir Bhutto. Mehsud rejected the accusation.

Underscoring the deteriorating security, gunmen kidnapped Afghanistan's ambassador-designate Abdul Khaliq Farahi and killed his driver in Peshawar, said a spokesman for the mission in the city.

Also in the northwest, a suicide bomber killed nine security officers at a checkpoint in the Swat valley, and police killed 10 militants in a gunbattle elsewhere, officials said.

British Airways said it was temporarily suspending its flights to the country following the hotel attack.

The airline, which offered six flights to Pakistan each week, did not face a direct security threat, company spokesman Suhail Rehman said.
 
US choppers retreat after being fired at

MIRANSHAH: Pakistani troops fired at two American helicopters that intruded into Pakistani airspace on Sunday night, forcing them to turn back to Afghanistan, officials said on Monday, but there was no confirmation from the army.

“The American helicopters were fired at when they were crossing into Pakistan at Lawara Mandi in North Waziristan late on Sunday,” an official said, speaking on condition of anonymity.

“The troops used light machine guns and the helicopters returned to Afghanistan.”

Lawara Mandi is 45 kilometres west of agency headquarters Miranshah. Major Murad Khan, a military spokesman, told Reuters: “We don’t have any information on border violation by the American helicopters.” staff report/agencies
 
What is going on? Seems like no one has any clue. The US denies, the PA denies but the report doesnt come out of nowhere or is it the famous yellow journalism that the media is known off.
 

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