Pakistani scholar Javed Jabbar schools Indian politician Mani Shankar on history of India

[Indus Pakistan]

common origins?

So by your logic English speaking Jamaicans, South Africans and English have common origins?

 

[Imad.Khan]

Which Pakistani is accusing you?

Yesterday someone called me Iranian. Can you believe I have been called Indian and Turkish also in the past?

You will get used to it. The best option is to ignore.

Some members here are a breed apart, they don't like to reason with logic, some don't even want to lend an ear to anything that is not what they want to hear. For example when we had that issue of assigning a qadyani guy in the economic committee, alot of people were so against this move. I was defending him and my logic was that every Pakistani irrespective of their religion should have the right to make their country a better place. One member turned around and accused me of being a qadyani for taking his side.

I reckon Pakistan will never improve if we keep producing people with closed minds.

I will not take kindly to anyone doubting my nationality in the future, and will simply press ignore if anyone calls me a troll again. I am 100% Indian, abhi aur kaise saabit karoon.

There is only one way, end every post with "Pakistan ka jo yaar hai, wo desh ka gaddar hai, gaddar hai.."

 

[Mr.Cringeworth]

The fact most Pakistani and Aryan India speak the same languages derived from Sanskrit , to the point they can easily converse today, is suggestive of common origins?
In fact Southern India and NE are co-opted India , but todays Pakistan seem to be the historical India of old .

The language that you're speaking derived from our languages not the other way around.

 

[Shahzaz ud din]

Two Nation Reality I Javed Jabbar

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Arey yaar, I get it. In India, there are many like them. I didn't realize they also invade your country's forum.

My only concern is that entering into some of these TROLL PITS can be time-consuming, as a moderator had warned me earlier. It's good that there is lockdown at the moment but I have to resume my duties in a few days time.

Many people take ignoring them as YOUR weakness but it's really about saving time. No one wins on the Internet.

I really wish I discussed and debated more with those two posters you mentioned, you, Imran Khan, N Siddiqui, and many others. There is so much to learn. Instead I find myself in these troll matches every single day.

But as you said, everyone experiences them here.

I will not take kindly to anyone doubting my nationality in the future, and will simply press ignore if anyone calls me a troll again. I am 100% Indian, abhi aur kaise saabit karoon.

Some Pakistanis are too accustomed to the negativity coming from Indians, they have a difficult time believing that an Indian can be neutral in regards to Pakistan.

We growing up in the West have Indian friends, Sikhs, Hindus, and Muslims, so we see that part of India already.

Pakistanis may be surprised that some Indians are actually sympathetic to our cause.

When RSS regime falls, we will need to deal with the aftermath together.

I reckon Pakistan will never improve if we keep producing people with closed minds.

So true brother, may Allah swt allow us to proceed to the future with hikmat and aql.

 

[Shantanu_Left]

Some Pakistanis are too accustomed to the negativity coming from Indians, they have a difficult time believing that an Indian can be neutral in regards to Pakistan.

We growing up in the West have Indian friends, Sikhs, Hindus, and Muslims, so we see that part of India already.

Pakistanis may be surprised that some Indians are actually sympathetic to our cause.

I'm fine with that. I have a lot of experience in dealing with extremists of all varieties.

And many people don't trust liberals despite our best intentions. That is why we have to show them that we mean business, and we will not betray them.

You look like someone who has been exposed to a lot of secular liberals, so you understand our position very well.

I am personally inspired by Fabianism of the Nehruvian variety. I just don't mind being called Communist if that is the best way people will understand the goals of our ideology.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

I'm fine with that. I have a lot of experience in dealing with extremists of all varieties.

And many people don't trust liberals despite our best intentions. That is why we have to show them that we mean business, and we will not betray them.

You look like someone who has been exposed to a lot of secular liberals, so you understand our position very well.

I am personally inspired by Fabianism of the Nehruvian variety. I just don't mind being called Communist if that is the best way people will understand the goals of our ideology.

Even in the West, you do have Liberals who lean heavily toward Socialism. It can be seen with prominent politicians and academics like Bernie and Noam Chomsky. You have Black socialism too.

I actually prefer those kind of voices, as they stand for the rights of the poor and depressed.

Latin American leftists in particular are very palpable to us, Islamic minded people.

Even with the Catholicism, we can make inroads with these people as Iran has done with Venezeula and Cuba.

I have found many Native American also very receptive to the cause of freedom of the Muslim world.

If we look around the world as we should be doing, allies will emerge from places where we did not expect.

India is no exception.

Our battle with Hindutva is defensive in nature. We take no joy in clamoring for murdering, raping, enslaving our enemies as the Hindutva fascists do.

Even if we win a war against India, I know my nation will afford everyday Indians the respect, decency, and rights due to them.

I can sleep soundly knowing that I bear no hate against anyone for who they are or what religion they follow.

May Allah swt honor us to walk the path of Prophet Muhammad saws, who loved all of humanity and saw no difference between us, except in goodness.

 

[Shantanu_Left]

Even in the West, you do have Liberals who lean heavily toward Socialism. It can be seen with prominent politicians and academics like Bernie and Noam Chomsky. You have Black socialism too.

I actually prefer those kind of voices, as they stand for the rights of the poor and depressed.

Latin American leftists in particular are very palpable to us, Islamic minded people.

I would consider any Islamist my ally as long as he/she is not an Al Qaeda/ISIS extremist. And, I'm aware a super overwhelming majority aren't! Why demonize anyone for being religious? Leave them alone to what pleases them.

Yes, I personally dislike Hafiz Saeed, Zaid Hamid or Syed Salahuddin types. But I get it, there's a war going on in Kashmir and the Indian government haven't been saints either, so maybe they are needed from your perspective. Plus India has its own brand of Zaid Hamid's or Hafiz Saeed's. I don't see the difference between the two. Both groups are crackpots.

I have been to the function of Dr. Zakir Naik, and had nice discussions with a few Muftis in the past. On theology and many other subjects. I can debate anyone, but prefer those with an open mind.

Here I wouldn't do that as that will attract troll armies. I'm already overwhelmed as it is.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

I would consider any Islamist my ally as long as he/she is not an Al Qaeda/ISIS extremist. And, I'm aware a super overwhelming majority aren't! Why demonize anyone for being religious? Leave them alone to what pleases them.

I don't like the term Islamist, it is a loaded word invented by the West to tarnish any Muslim who seeks politics. I believe every person she be involved politically to better their people. Religious Muslim is a much more descriptive and positive term, and one I can get behind.

These groups were former agents of the West, or current agents, used for various purposes. They do not represent Muslims. Daesh is not even Muslim, they are Khawarij and consider Muslims as disbelievers.

Yes, I personally dislike Hafiz Saeed, Zaid Hamid or Syed Salahuddin types. But I get it, there's a war going on in Kashmir and the Indian government haven't been saints either, so maybe they are needed from your perspective. Plus India has its own brand of Zaid Hamid's or Hafiz Saeed's. I don't see the difference between the two. Both groups are crackpots.

One is not like the other. Hafiz Saeed and Syed Salahuddin are not the much-aligned terrorists which the Indian government portray them as. Their activity is mostly in organizing speeches, conferences, and bringing lecturers to discuss and further the issue of Kashmir. They enjoy widespread support in Pakistan. Hafiz Saeed's innocent charity group Jamat ut Dawah, also unfairly maligned, actually helps the Pakistani Hindus of Thar immensely. He is very popular with them for this reason.

Zaid Zaman Hamid is a charlatan and fake. He was affiliated previously with a self-styled Messiah named Yusuf Kazzab in Lahore, actually he was his number two. Since then he re-invented himself as a patriot and army supporter, but we are all cautious of him, that is why his popularity is only in twitter.

I have been to the function of Dr. Zakir Naik, and had nice discussions with a few Muftis in the past. On theology and many other subjects. I can debate anyone, but prefer those with an open mind.

Here I wouldn't do that as that will attract troll armies. I'm already overwhelmed as it is.

Don't be bothered by goons, my friend. Share your thoughts openly and be heard. Pakistanis and others will be receptive to what you have to say.

 

[HAIDER]

A nice video i came across today where Javed Jabbar schools Mani Shankar and his herd on history of India.Not sure if this is a fairly recent video but relevant to the section.

Indus valley people and Ganga valley people were two different nations even thousands of years ago.It wasnt a breakup or 'partition' of an indian state in 1947. , it was independence of two already existing states living under Imperial rulers.
Actually even todays india is so weak in center that the states have their way in many things they are almost autonomous, so india still needs to prove a point to the world that its cohesiveness as a nation will stay intact long term and it weighs behind on rationale to exist as a country when it continues to keep popping new states to juggle local ethno-linguistic disputes, it has the lengthiest disputed borders in the world, most number of indurgencies, a population time bomb set to leave behing China by 2025 and a neo-communal wave of socia-political disorder tearing it apart.

Debate targeting Pak army. .. Gen Bakhsi .. but Javed Jabbar explain very well the origin and spread of Hindu supremacy in the region. Officially Gandhi introduced religion into politics and call it one Hindu state..... well.... everyone must watch and ponder.

 

[-blitzkrieg-]

Gen Bakhsi ..

Gen Bakshi is an innocent soul that goes bezerk when he cant express himself..sometimes i feel bad for him...i never found him as intimidating.

 

[HAIDER]

Gen Bakshi is an innocent soul that goes bezerk when he cant express himself..sometimes i feel bad for him...i never found him as intimidating.

But, unfortunately we been dealing with leader who believe in " aloo ghost". But not looking deep into this two nation theory, which is now showing its impact on isolating muslim in " Hindu society".
Javed Akhtar , poor soul searching the soul in " secular India". which only exist in media not on the ground.

 

[Shantanu_Left]

I don't like the term Islamist, it is a loaded word invented by the West to tarnish any Muslim who seeks politics. Religious Muslim is a much more descriptive and positive term, and one I can get behind.

Sorry I didn't know that term had a loaded meaning. Won't use it then.

These groups were former agents of the West, or current agents, used for various purposes. They do not represent Muslims. Daesh is not even Muslim, they are Khawarij and consider Muslims as disbelievers.

Of course, they don't. And it deeply pains me to know that many innocent Muslims are tarred with that brush by bigots. But again, I see the goodness in all people as I am sure you do. So, not everyone does this kind of stereotyping.

One is not like the other. Hafiz Saeed and Syed Salahuddin are not the much-aligned terrorists which the Indian government portray them as. Their activity is mostly in organizing speeches, conferences, and bringing lecturers to discuss and further the issue of Kashmir. They enjoy widespread support in Pakistan. Hafiz Saeed's innocent charity group Jamat ut Dawah, also unfairly maligned, actually helps the Pakistani Hindus of Thar immensely. He is very popular with them for this reason.

Not that sure about Salahuddin (that was the first name that came on the top of my head). But I heard that version before on Hafiz Saeed from a Pakistani female journalist. Look I'd be even willing to chat with that man, as I carry no preconceived ideas when I meet any new people.

Zaid Zaman Hamid is a charlatan and fake. He was affiliated previously with a self-styled Messiah named Yusuf Kazzab in Lahore, actually he was his number two. Since then he re-invented himself as a patriot and army supporter, but we are all cautious of him, that is why his popularity is only in twitter.

Many Indians incorrectly think that ALL PAKISTANIS think exactly like Zaid Hamid (don't blame them, they have been raised on a diet of rightwing Indian media.) Glad we agree on that person, I have seen some of his cartoonish videos online and that's about him. He and G.D. Bakshi (and a few others) should get themselves a meeting room, and bore each other to death.

Don't be bothered by goons, my friend. Share your thoughts openly and be heard. Pakistanis and others will be receptive to what you have to say.

I like it here. Would love to meet some of the people I interacted with here in the real world someday. And that includes you.