Pakistani Navy going through a serious buildup

[imranyounus]

There's not much information available on Jinnah Class.

But going by simple logic it must be something different than MILGEM.

1 simple reason is why you rename some thing after procuring first 4 with different name.

2 following above logic we are locally building 2 out of first 4 so why not call them as Jinnah.

3 looking at turkish ship building developments. we know that thet are working on something even bigger I.e. Istanbul class.

so there is logical reason to believe that Jinnah class is something different and bigger.

 

[Falcon26]

There's not much information available on Jinnah Class.

But going by simple logic it must be something different than MILGEM.

1 simple reason is why you rename some thing after procuring first 4 with different name.

2 following above logic we are locally building 2 out of first 4 so why not call them as Jinnah.

3 looking at turkish ship building developments. we know that thet are working on something even bigger I.e. Istanbul class.

so there is logical reason to believe that Jinnah class is something different and bigger.

Jinnah is a new class. It’s certainly not the same as the initial vessels which PN is getting from Turkey. Those vessels are themselves vastly superior to the ones operated by Turkey and are practically the same as the Istanbul class frigates.

 

[iLION12345_1]

MILGEM isn’t a single ship, it’s an entire project that includes 3 different classes of ships:
1. Ada class corvette
2. TF-100 Istanbul class frigate
3. TF-2000 Heavy frigate.

According to the previous naval chief Pakistan is getting 8 ships of the Turkish design. First 4 are an Upscaled, Pakistani-specific variant of the Ada class. In Turkish service Ada is a corvette but in Pakistani service, it will be bigger and will serve as a frigate, it’s not the same design as the Turkish one. These ones are the ones already under construction.

The second 4 are the Jinnah class, which are Pakistani-specific variants based on the Istanbul class frigate, these will also not be the same as the Turkish ones, they will be modified, maybe larger too, and will have a different weapons setup. These will come after the current 4 are finished.

The previous navy chief also said that Pakistan navy would be getting 6 heavy frigates of 5000+ tons. Though he didn’t not confirm from where and what type, once can assume that these can be based on the TF-2000 design, a Pakistani-specific variant of it, like the other two. Or these could be Chinese, or even something in between, designed only for Pakistan in a JV with China, like the F22P.
Either way, we can see how deeply Pakistan has involved itself in the MILGEM project from this, and with the Turkish minister saying Pakistan was interested in joining the MILDEN Submarine project in some capacity too, we can assume the PN wants to work with Turkey a lot, something it can do, unlike PA for which it would create logistical issues due to historical usage of weapons from other sources.

 

[imranyounus]

PN is growing and with more ships increase operations in open waters it will need air cover. Once this phase is complete and we move to next phase of induction we will definitely need an air-wing to protect ships and other assets in open water.

 

[iLION12345_1]

PN is growing and with more ships increase operations in open waters it will need air cover. Once this phase is complete and we move to next phase of induction we will definitely need an air-wing to protect ships and other assets in open water.

The navy is definitely focusing on aerial assets already. The PN has received 5 ATR-72 MPAs and has 10 Sea Sultan LRMPAs on order. That’s 15 MPA’s, not a small amount. And the P3Cs aren’t exactly old yet either, they can easily serve till 2030, by then all of these orders will be completed.

The navy is also definitely getting more new helicopters with all these new ships.
The navy already has a good number of UAVs. They will likely get MALE UAV/UCAVs too, maybe they’re waiting for PAC to get them ready or looking for foreign options.

As for fighters, those aren’t exactly priority for the navy just yet, they need to get Ships, subs, MPAs and helicopters first, all of which they’re getting. The PAF and the PN mirages are adequate for now, but obviously PN is aware they will need a couple of proper fighter squadrons to provide air cover to their ships. And I’m sure these will come after the current orders are delivered. I expect them to just buy JF block 3 or 4.

 

[Zarvan]

Pakistan Navy is going through a serious upgrade and buildup in the 7-8 years. I am happy that the Pakistani Navy is finally getting some attention. I always felt that the Pakistani Navy gets "overlooked" when compared to PAF and PA. Very formidable fleet for 1000 km coastline.

> 4 x Type-054AP frigates under construction (delivery 2021-23)

> 4 x MILGEM ships under construction (del 2023-25)

> 1 x Jinnah-class Frigate construction (del 2026-27)

> Two Damen made corvettes to join soon.

> Deal for 6 heavier tonnage corvettes to be concluded soon

> 8 x Hangor-class subs under construction (del 2022-28)

> 1 x Yuan-class sub being acquired from China for training purposes

> 1 more Modernised ATR-72 ASW aircraft to join soon (total 3 such planes)

> 10 jet-powered MP aircraft for ASW role to be acquired as a replacement of P-3C Orions. Deal for 1 is concluded

> Hypersonic P282 ship-launched anti-ship/land-attack ballistic missile

> MALE UAV contract concluded

New platforms being acquired is only part of the story.

PN have added new bases, shore based missile batteries, air defence, new marines battalions, information centre, nuclear command etc.

The PMSA has also grown in size.

The old PN was truly a joke in comparison.

One capability which Pakistan really needs to go for is Ship and Submarine to Land capability. We need heavy frigates, destroyers and Submarines which have VLS to carry long range cruise missiles, from long range I mean 1600 to 2400 KM range missiles and fire them to hit targets on land.

 

[Tipu7]

The PN has received 5 ATR-72 MPAs and has 10 Sea Sultan LRMPAs on order.

We will be receiving 3rd RAS-72 soon. I don't think all ATR-72s will be configured with MPA package.

Similarly, though former Chief has mentioned the figure 10 regarding Sea Sultan, some deviations in that program can still take place too.


And a next gen fighter with good endurance, weapons, sensors and data link capability is a must for Navy. Despite of deep desire of Navy of having its own dedicated maritime fighter wing, the fighter department will continue to remain in realm of Air Force. In what form this requirement will materialize is yet to be known. But a critical requirement is definitely there.

One capability which Pakistan really needs to go for is Ship and Submarine to Land capability. We need heavy frigates, destroyers and Submarines which have VLS to carry long range cruise missiles, from long range I mean 1600 to 2400 KM range missiles and fire them to hit targets on land.

Bus kr de bhai... Navy has barely started to fill up its deficiencies. PN will remain a defensive force primarily tasked to counter IN. It's not going to rain heavy duty cruise missiles over Indian urban centers...

 

[Affanakad0t.]

I believe Damen was delivered via Turkey, no??

Sorry i misread it. Was thinking about swiftships.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

MILGEM isn’t a single ship, it’s an entire project that includes 3 different classes of ships:
1. Ada class corvette
2. TF-100 Istanbul class frigate
3. TF-2000 Heavy frigate.

According to the previous naval chief Pakistan is getting 8 ships of the Turkish design. First 4 are an Upscaled, Pakistani-specific variant of the Ada class. In Turkish service Ada is a corvette but in Pakistani service, it will be bigger and will serve as a frigate, it’s not the same design as the Turkish one. These ones are the ones already under construction.

The second 4 are the Jinnah class, which are Pakistani-specific variants based on the Istanbul class frigate, these will also not be the same as the Turkish ones, they will be modified, maybe larger too, and will have a different weapons setup. These will come after the current 4 are finished.

The previous navy chief also said that Pakistan navy would be getting 6 heavy frigates of 5000+ tons. Though he didn’t not confirm from where and what type, once can assume that these can be based on the TF-2000 design, a Pakistani-specific variant of it, like the other two. Or these could be Chinese, or even something in between, designed only for Pakistan in a JV with China, like the F22P.
Either way, we can see how deeply Pakistan has involved itself in the MILGEM project from this, and with the Turkish minister saying Pakistan was interested in joining the MILDEN Submarine project in some capacity too, we can assume the PN wants to work with Turkey a lot, something it can do, unlike PA for which it would create logistical issues due to historical usage of weapons from other sources.

Re: the submarines, I don't know if the MILDEN is available for outside partners. The Turks are approaching it like a super-secretive program. That said, STM did offer the PN the xTS1700 design, which was a proposal for the MILDEN. It's possible that there are discussions about customizing the xTS1700 for the PN as a next-gen SSP to replace the Agosta 90B (and further enlarge our fleet).

 

[CrazyZ]

No choice. BJP strategist will attempt a blockade of Pakistan in the next confrontation, IMO. Almost tried it last time. We must densely protect our shores while having the capacity to snipe at Indian capital ships from long ranges.

The vastness of oceans is no longer a veil. Latest Chinese surveillance sats are as good as USA's. USA has agreement to share sat images with India. No doubt China will provide PN with near real time imaging of big Indian ships. PN and PAF will know where big Indian vessels are at all times....not a capability we had in past wars.

India joining the quad has some negatives as well, IMO.

 

[-blitzkrieg-]

Pakistan Navy should reach out have cooperation with Yemeni and Somali Navy, may be have some pacts as well.

 

[iLION12345_1]

We will be receiving 3rd RAS-72 soon. I don't think all ATR-72s will be configured with MPA package.

Similarly, though former Chief has mentioned the figure 10 regarding Sea Sultan, some deviations in that program can still take place too.


And a next gen fighter with good endurance, weapons, sensors and data link capability is a must for Navy. Despite of deep desire of Navy of having its own dedicated maritime fighter wing, the fighter department will continue to remain in realm of Air Force. In what form this requirement will materialize is yet to be known. But a critical requirement is definitely there.

I think final requirement of ATR MPAs is 4? I might have overcounted the tenders though. Still, these MPAs plus the sea sultans should be more than enough for our needs, especially since the Sea sultans are looking to be pretty close to the P8s India operates. German tech is right up there with the best.

The Next-Gen fighter is an obvious requirement but I suppose they’re going down the list of what they need the most first. We’re going to have rather limited options for that fighter, that’s why I was hoping that maybe a dedicated naval variant of the JF could be seen somewhere down the line.

Re: the submarines, I don't know if the MILDEN is available for outside partners. The Turks are approaching it like a super-secretive program. That said, STM did offer the PN the xTS1700 design, which was a proposal for the MILDEN. It's possible that there are discussions about customizing the xTS1700 for the PN as a next-gen SSP to replace the Agosta 90B (and further enlarge our fleet).

I was wondering where Turkish submarines would fit in with our order of hangors, since that is a massive order already, replacing 90b with them is a viable option, they are pretty good subs. 90Bs have just gotten their mid life upgrades so this might be a future-proofing of sorts. Also I was quoting this when I meant Pakistan was interested in MILDEN:

Pakistan is interested in turkish MILDEN submarine project.

Conversation Turan Oguz @TyrannosurusRex @TC_Disisleri Bakani @MevlutCavusoglu ’nun Pakistan donusu yaptigi aciklamalarda 2 onemli nokta var: 1)Pakistan’a ATAK helikopteri satisi henuz iptal olmadi. ABD, Pakistan’a motor ihrac izni vermedi ama birlikte baski yapilacak. 2)Pakistan...

defence.pk

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

I think final requirement of ATR MPAs is 4? I might have overcounted the tenders though. Still, these MPAs plus the sea sultans should be more than enough for our needs, especially since the Sea sultans are looking to be pretty close to the P8s India operates. German tech is right up there with the best.

The Next-Gen fighter is an obvious requirement but I suppose they’re going down the list of what they need the most first. We’re going to have rather limited options for that fighter, that’s why I was hoping that maybe a dedicated naval variant of the JF could be seen somewhere down the line.


I was wondering where Turkish submarines would fit in with our order of hangors, since that is a massive order already, replacing 90b with them is a viable option, they are pretty good subs. 90Bs have just gotten their mid life upgrades so this might be a future-proofing of sorts. Also I was quoting this when I meant Pakistan was interested in MILDEN:

Pakistan is interested in turkish MILDEN submarine project.

Conversation Turan Oguz @TyrannosurusRex @TC_Disisleri Bakani @MevlutCavusoglu ’nun Pakistan donusu yaptigi aciklamalarda 2 onemli nokta var: 1)Pakistan’a ATAK helikopteri satisi henuz iptal olmadi. ABD, Pakistan’a motor ihrac izni vermedi ama birlikte baski yapilacak. 2)Pakistan...

defence.pk

IMO if there's interest in Turkish subs, it'd be along the veins of the Jinnah-class frigate -- i.e., a project aimed at in-house submarine design and production work. However, with the Hangor II-class submarines coming by the late 2020s, I don't think this project could materialize before the late-2030s, if not a little later. In that case it'd be a Agosta 90B replacement for the 2040s, and a means to further grow the submarine fleet.

 

[Smarana Mitra]

And the mirages, you are calling Shitty, gave the bloody nose to the enemy when the time came and will continue to stay the mainstay of our attack for the next few years. Let's be realistic.

Mirage 3, Mirage 5, F7 are worse than Mig21 planes. They are seriously obsolete.

 

[RIP Pak LAW]

Still, these MPAs plus the sea sultans should be more than enough for our needs, especially since the Sea sultans are looking to be pretty close to the P8s India operates. German tech is right up there with the best.

Has Lineage Embraer 1000 conversion into LRMPA started ? We got the plane 6 months back so by now contract with any MPA/AWACS company would have been materialized or about to, any credible update on it ? We don't know yet it wil be a German, American company or from any other country.