Pakistani Liberals Should be Ashamed at Being on The Same Side as Foreign Fascists

[Reddington]

These people who call themselves liberals these days came to the forefront of national discourse only after Musharraf took over the rule and started his so-called "enlightened moderation" movement in early 2000s, I remember he used to get his photos published in newspapers along with his pet dogs, something that was unseen from any head of pakistani state before him in my memory, he also used to organize dance parties and used to sing together with mirasi singers who are raag specialists, one of his mirasi type singing performance became quite a hit on youtube during 2006 or 2007, I believe. It was during this time that nobodies with deviant behaviors and thoughts started calling themselves "liberals" and took full advantage of Musharraf regime's patronage and got integrated in the mainstream national discourse.
We had these kind of so-called liberals with deviant thoughts and behaviors even before Musharraf time too but they never got the chance to influence the mainstream national discourse of the country, they were always treated like any other fringe groups, nothing more than that. Asma jehangir was quite popular in the printing press and newspapers in those days even in 90s but I never saw her given the platform of PTV to spew her deviant agendas and thoughts. With Musharraf's liberalization of private electronic media, suddenly these people got an easy platform to propagate their fringe ideologies and thoughts on private news channels and they made full use of it and are still making full use of it. Then came off course social media like twitter and facebook which increased their reach to the mainstream national discourse ever further. So these days these so-called "liberals" are everywhere in national discourse. A fringe groups until late 90s is shaping the mainstream national narrative these days because there is no check balance in place in electronic and social media in Pakistan.
As I see it in Gen. Zia ul Haq's time, the religious extremists got integrated in the mainstream national discourse of Pakistani state but in Musharraf's time it was these fringe deviant "liberals" got integrated in the mainstream discourse. So one ill was replaced with another ill. What pakistan now need is that pakistani state needs to bring back the mainstream national discourse back in the hands of levelheaded mentally and ideologically moderate and flexible people and stop integrating extremist deviant groups on both left and right of political spectrum.

100% agreed. Musharraf is solely responsible for this mess. Musharraf's decision of private electronic media gave a platform for these liberal fascists to propagate their views. Media like Dawn, Geo are now the fifth column for the enemies.

 

[airmarshal]

These liberals are the O level , A level educated kids who were taught Foreign version of Pakistani historu and foreign ideas about Islam and Pakistan

That is not true! These liberals are educated Pakistanis in general whose minds are totally colonized.

Actually even if we stop classifying ourselves, we are mentally colonized, still.

Pakistani liberal typical salient features are

- hate Pakistan's ideology
- hate Pakistan Army
- hate anything remotely related to Islam.

Liberalism of Pakistani variety is actually a form of extreme inferiority complex and this is not restricted to specific education system.

Imran Khan is O level, A level, Oxford educated. Is he 'liberal' of that kind?

 

[M.AsfandYar]

These liberals are the O level , A level educated kids who were taught Foreign version of Pakistani historu and foreign ideas about Islam and Pakistan

I am O/A level educated..............

 

[litman]

if we tightly stick to what Quran says we will never get detracked but unfortunately we are muslims who dont know anything about what's written in Quran and then mullahs and liberals take full advantage of our ignorance. media is the biggest tool in the hands of satanists and they are using it well.

 

[KhalaiMakhlooq]

Imran Khan is a liberal

https://www.globalresearch.ca/is-imran-khans-movement-for-justice-a-liberal-political-party/5668721
15 Feb 2019

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=275315232510904

 

[war&peace]

Result of studying indirect sources on Islam i.e orientalist. Secondly, they dont have the capacity and capability to understand deen from direct sources.

Most of them don't even bother to read orientalist. They are materialistic, lustful and greedy people who hate Islam because it goes against all their evil doings. They want to spread lewdness in the name of freedom while Islam restricts it, they want to drink alcohol but Islam forbids it so basically they are satanic people and follow satan and whoever suits the inner devil.

 

[Reddington]

if we tightly stick to what Quran says we will never get detracked but unfortunately we are muslims who dont know anything about what's written in Quran and then mullahs and liberals take full advantage of our ignorance. media is the biggest tool in the hands of satanists and they are using it well.

Agreed. Pakistan has been hijacked by these mullahs and liberals. Both of them need each other to blame and then carry out subversion against the state playing with the ignorance of gullible masses. Plus media needs to be controlled.

Funny thing is Pakistan's founding fathers (Quaid-e-Azam, Allama Iqbal, Liaquat Ali Khan) neither wanted a theocratic state (run by a Mullah) nor a secular state as these liberal fascists propagate.

 

[El Sidd]

Imran Khan is a liberal

https://www.globalresearch.ca/is-imran-khans-movement-for-justice-a-liberal-political-party/5668721
15 Feb 2019

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=275315232510904

so only liberals accuse the State of Pakistan for ' Bengali Genocide '.

makes sense

I am O/A level educated..............

its how one uses the tool of education

 

[Army research]

These liberals are the O level , A level educated kids who were taught Foreign version of Pakistani historu and foreign ideas about Islam and Pakistan

Hey, 90% of A and O level you just mentioned desire to join the Pakistan army , and a solid 30% like me , Have a Deeply rooted disgust for the liberals and know that these people are our enemies , of our culture traditions and religion

 

[curious]

Tell me a simple fact. Islam is universal. There are nearly 2 billion Muslims on earth. The first test of a Islamic state is does it grant citizenship on basis of -

1. Islam?
2. or geographic man made borders irrespective of Islam ?

Now you tell me which one does Pakistan apply?

The point I was making was, the first test of a Islamic state would be, does it award citizenship on the basis of being a Muslim? If not then that state cannot be 'Islamic' as it has failed the first requirememt of the universality of Islamic brotherhood.

I said 2 times already

Pakistan is not claiming to be a Khilifa state just yet, so we don't have to expect all Muslims in the world to owe allegiance to it.

As i said before what you are alluding to that is a khilafa state, a declared khilafa state lead by a khalifa appointed by the consensus of Muslims. Pakistan is making no such claim, it only aims to make an Islamic state within its own boundaries. You have to crawl before you can walk and run. That does not mean that we are making our own version of Islam or such nonsense, it just means that we are implementing as much as we have the power to implement.
If you are unable to pray standing and prey sitting down, does that mean you are making another Islam? If you are lazy and miss the fajar prayer and only do 4 prayers does that mean you are making another Islam? If you are forced to trade in a system using interest/usury because you have no choice at the moment, does that mean you are making another Islam? Or simply that you are unable to act on some aspects because you are unable to do so, of the same Islam.

 

[litman]

Agreed. Pakistan has been hijacked by these mullahs and liberals. Both of them need each other to blame and then carry out subversion against the state playing with the ignorance of gullible masses. Plus media needs to be controlled.

Funny thing is Pakistan's founding fathers (Quaid-e-Azam, Allama Iqbal, Liaquat Ali Khan) neither wanted a theocratic state (run by a Mullah) nor a secular state as these liberal fascists propagate.

we need to make our own effort in learning Quran but the real problem is we ourselves are not interested in spending time and energy on understanding Quran because it doesnt give us any material benefit. if i study Quran i wont get any degree, any promotion etc and i wont be able to make a career out of it so that's why i spend my time on other fields which can help me earning more wealth and there comes a brilliant excuse and logic from the satan that if i progress in the worldly fields i will be able to help the mankind in a better way so i use that logic to spend all of my time and energies on the material world. i am not against making effort for this world but there should be a balance between this world and the next with priority to the next world.

 

[Well.wisher]

Nicely written . Good new ideas .

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

My views, on the rant in the thread

Libertards, facists, anti Pakistan, lot of conflicting views


Before I start , I simply wish to clarify I am a 100% Educated , High Upper Class Educated person who excelled around 80% thru most of my schools and I take pride in that achievement

I have been thru Pakistan's Education Model and have also views the Western Education Model


I never was inducted in any O /A level as this was not mode of schooling where I was at that point in my life.


So I am going to be very clear , what is Liberalism

Liberalism , in it's core , means ideology , which sheds away from Conservatism


Liberal Ideas:

• Pro Immigration
• Working Rights for Women and Men
• Same wages for Man and Women
• Equal Justice system for all citizens
• No quota systems
• Religious Openness in Country , practice your faith what it may be
• Open access to Jobs , home purchase and Justice System for Citizens
• Religion is your own personal matter in your private life
• Protection of minorities
• Equal access for Jobs for Minorities
• No one stops you from Praying how you want

Western Additional Twist

• Open right to wear what you want
• Clamping down on religious fanatics beating up people to enforce stuff by force

Every day folks call themselves Liberals , and these are not rich by anymeans nor they have wild sex parties



Pakistan's Elite Culture
When Pakistan's existing cultural space , we find that majority of People act on Liberal ideals , with hint of religion

However , in Pakistan , what we have are people who don't actually have an ideology but they live life of excess

• Excess Cars
• Excess living style
• Excess luxury
• Excess life of Women , Beauti and Money
• Excess life of drugs and Wine / Intoxication

This is not the core ideals of "Liberalism" and by that I mean political Liberalism
They enjoy private parties and enjoy the hidden life and also the extra exposure in Media and movies

Pakistan's Religious Conservatives:

Pakistan's religious conservatives , view the actions of Elite Rich class , as the prime representatives of Liberalism , but that is not true

The Elite of Pakistan , do not represent Liberalism

The Elite of Pakistan , who are intoxicated with Wealth , Sex and Wine , are merely a class of elite who are doing what such group do , they enjoy their Luxury




Now finally lets visit the Claim , that "Certain , people are so blind in their anti Pakistan Slogan they are helping move the narrative of foreign powers, in Pakistan"


Fine , but this has nothing to do with Political Liberalism , the people who mostly Pakistan's conservatives hate are mainly folks who are just an elite class of Pakistan



Liberalism , does not have any political statement that the practitioners are acting against the interest of the state , Never




It is important that the Elite class , involved in anti Pakistan , stance and actions is not tied to the Political Movement of Liberalism because these are two different distinct ideas



Who are the Elite Class: (Not every one is exponent of excessive life style)

• Owners of vast farming land and un-taxed farming land
• Owner of Large wealth from farming
• Owner of Banks
• Owners of Media centers (TV, Radio , and Internet)
• TV anchors and Writers , who get funded from external Pakistan entities for their write ups in daily news papers in order to forge an opinion in nation
• Generational Politicians , and Family based politicians
• Industrialist
• Real Estate , owners of vast property assets

So these are merely an elite rich class of Pakistan , and it has nothing to do with Liberalism


When I read alot of the narrative around , blaming Liberalism , it makes me laugh because most foreigners who are not aware of Pakistani context or point view may wonder why Pakistanis continue to blame Liberalism for their problems



Tools of Foreign Nations inside Pakistan:

1) Bought out TV anchors , and TV personalities who speak certain narrative at coordinated times with other paid people

2) Funding distribution mechanism to keep these celeberties in spotlight and make sure their broadcast reach maximum Pakistan

3) Voice of America (Urdu) was use mostly in 90's to spread a narrative to accept Benazir as some form of savior as example

4) Foreign diplomats who pressured Pakistan into accepting NRO in 2007-2008

5) Bought out judges in lower courts who protect criminal and political criminals



The people who I highlighted in red , are merely people who love Money , vs any idealogy and thus they have no problem to say , what others from outside want them to say infront of Pakistani people


Foreign agencies are always busy to get into a nation and setup a network of such people who want money and they will sell their soul to the devil , they have no connection to Liberalism

 

[Crusher]

My views, on the rant in the thread

Liberalism , in it's core , means ideology , which sheds away from Conservatism

These western concepts are not as black and white as they are taken in Pakistan, I live in Germany and here the ruling party is conservative liberals or liberal conservatives, same is the case with the ruling party of the neighboring Netherlands.

For reference https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservative_liberalism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_Union_(Netherlands)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People's_Party_for_Freedom_and_Democracy

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Islam is general quite liberal the only real difference is the dress code and activities around liberalism around relations/marriage