Pakistani leaders call for strong Iran-Pakistan relationship

[Bond]

same whining again again n again... I can assure few more US dollars thrown in front of Pakistan and there goes Pak-Iran friendship out of the door...

Not whilst India goes towards America

 

[DDLJ]

Not whilst India goes towards America

Then why Iran still allowing India a transit route to central Asia through Chabahar.

 

[lem34]

same whining again again n again... I can assure few more US dollars thrown in front of Pakistan and there goes Pak-Iran friendship out of the door...

Lets look at Indian friendship with America. I suggest that you stop using emotive language as once I start you wont know where to look.


Here an article written by a diplomat and former Indian Ambassador:

Dai Bingguo heading for Islamabad


Francis Fukuyama wrote a sequel to his celebrated book The End of History and the Last Man (1992) no sooner than he realised that he was hopelessly wrong in his prediction that the global triumph of political and economic liberalism was at hand. He wrote: “What we may be witnessing is not just the end of the Cold War, or the crossing of a particular period of postwar history, but the end of history as such… That is, the end point of mankind’s ideological evolution and the universalization of Western democracy as the final form of human government.” But in no time he realised his rush to judgment and he retracted with another book.

However, unlike the celebrated American neocon thinker, Indian foreign policy thinkers who were heavily influenced by his 1992 thesis are yet to retract. The Indian discourses through the 1990s drew heavily from Fukuyama to throw overboard the scope for reinventing or reinterpreting ‘non-alignment’ in the post-Cold War setting and came to a rapid judgment that Russia belonged to the dustbin of history. Our discourses never really got updated despite Fukumaya’s own retraction.

Indeed, western commentators also fuelled the consequent sense of insecurity in Delhi through the 1990s by endorsing that India would never have a ‘Russia option’ again and Boris Yeltsin’s Russia itself was inexorably becoming an ‘ally’ of the west — and, therefore, what alternative is there for India but to take to the New American Century project? Remember the drama of the Bill Clinton administration arm-twisting Yeltsin not to give to India the cryogentic engines?

In sum, India got entrapped in a ‘unipolar predicament’. The best elucidation of this self-invited predicament has been the masterly work titled Crossing the Rubicon by Raja Mohan, which was of course widely acclaimed in the US. While releasing the book at a function in Delhi, the then National Security Advisor Brajesh Mishra even admitted that India’s main foreign policy challenge was somehow to engage the US’s “attention”.

Russia, of course, went on to prove our pundits completely wrong. Russia remerged as a global player and the evidence of it is today spread (and is poised to expand) all across global theatres — Libya, Syria, Iran, Central Asia, Afghanistan, etc.
Why I am underscoring all this is that I am strongly reminded of that sad chapter in the recent history of India’s foreign policy when I see the huge ‘psywar’ being let loose on Pakistan currently when that country too is at a crossroads with regard to its future policy directions in a highly volatile external enviornment.

In Pakistan’s case, the ‘psywar’ substitutes Russia with China. The US’s ‘Track II’ thesis is that China is hopelessly marooned in its own malaise so much so that it has no time, interest or resources to come to Pakistan’s aid, the two countries’ ‘all-weather friendship’ notwithstanding. Let me cull out two fine pieces of this ongoing ‘psywar’.

One is the lengthy article featured by America’s prestigious flag-carrier Foreign Affairs magazine in early December titled “China’s Pakistan conundrum”. Its argument is: ‘China will not simply bail out Pakistan with loans, investment, and aid, as those watching the deterioration of US-Pakistani relations seem to expect. China will pursue politics, security, and geopolitical advantage regardless of Islamabad’s preferences’. It puts forth the invidious argument that China’s real use for Pakistan is only to “box out New Delhi in Afghanistan and the broader region.”

Alongside the argument is the highly-tendentious vector that is beyond easy verification, namely, that US and China are increasingly ‘coordinating’ their policies toward Pakistan. Diplomacy is part dissimulation and we simply don’t know whether the US and China are even anywhere near beginning to ‘coordinate’ about ‘coordinating’ their regional policies in South Asia, especially with regard to Pakistan (and Afghanistan). The odds are that while the US and China may have some limited convergent interests, conceivably, their strategic interests are most certainly in sharp conflict.

A milder version of this frontal attack by US pundits on Pakistan’s existential dilemma appears in Michael Krepon’s article last week titled ‘Pakistan’s Patrons’, which, curiously, counsels Islamabad to follow India’s foreign-policy footsteps and make up with the US. Krepon literally suggests that the Pakistanis are living in a fool’s paradise.

The obvious thrust of this ‘psywar’ — strikingly similar to what India was subjected to in the 1990s — is that Pakistan has no option but to fall in line with the US regional strategies, as it has no real ‘China option’. The main difference between India and Pakistan is that the foreign policy elites in Islamabad — unlike their Indian counterparts — are not inclined to buy into the US argument with a willing suspension of disbelief. In a way, the Sino-Pakistan relationship is proving once again to be resilient. Pakistan is in no mood to get into a ‘unipolar predicament’, as the Indian elites willingly did in the 1990s.

Thus, the visit by the Chinese delegation led by State Councilor, Dai Bingguo to Islamabad at this point in time assumes much significance. Dai is one of the highest-ranking figures in the Chinese foreign-policy establishment and the fact he is leading a delegation that includes of senior Chinese military officials is very significant. Dai is scheduled to meet not only Pakistan’s political leadership at the highest level but also army chief Ashfaq Kayani and ISI head Ahmed Shuja Pasha.

Obviously, Beijing is making a big point through the timing of this visit as well, which, incidentally, is taking place at a time of great uncertainties in Pakistan’s internal affairs. When it comes to relations with China, it must be assumed that Pakistan’s civil and military leaderships are together.

Dai doesn’t really have a US counterpart as he is ranked above the FM. Arguably, it would be secretary of state Hillary Clinton. If so, to what extent Dai ‘coordinated’ his proposed visit with Clinton will be of particular interest. The future of the US’s ‘psywar’ on Pakistan is at stake.

The big question is whether this would be Dai’s last major trip to South Asia, as he is a key member of President Hu Jintao’s team and China is moving into a period of transition at the leadership level. Dai’s visit to Delhi for the Special Representatives meet was called off at the last minute.
Posted in Diplomacy, Politics.

Tagged with China-Pakistan, US-China, US-India, US-Pakistan, US-Russia.

By M K Bhadrakumar – December 23, 2011

Dai Bingguo heading for Islamabad - Indian Punchline

I am very suspect of the motives of those who call for good relations between Iran and Pakistan. I doubt it will last. I consider Pakistan a military junta with a smear of democracy added. The military retains primacy by playing up threats to the country, real or not. The Indian threat is winding down and the campaign against terrorists is ineffective depending on whether one cites incompetence or poor enthusiasm, so the military is gradually losing some authority.

But, if Iran achieves nuclear weapons capability the military has a new life-line: the Iranian threat. The military can then cite Iran to strengthen its case for primacy once more. There will be little talk of good relations between Iran and Pakistan after that - unless, of course, some new enemy is created for the benefit of Pakistan's military.

When Indians and Zionists like you come to take a particular course of action or do not like the assertions I would suggest we Pakistanis should pay extra attention and do the opposite of what they and or you say as they and or you have ulterior motives

 

[DDLJ]

That is a wonderful news. We need to create a new block based on mutual economic and technological needs between Pakistan, Iran, China and Russia. There is alot to be gained from it. In 2014 Americans are leaving and we must get ourselves ready to fill the vacuum. It is too dangerous to leave it to Indians to fill this gap which is coming.

Iranians are surely Against Americans in Afghanistan but not a supporter of Taliban regime after seeing the massacre of Shia Hazaras. They will resist American or NATO presence in Afghanistan but they are never against Russia, India or China's presence in Afghanistan. Transit through Chabahar and proposed Hajigak-Chabahar Rail link is the proof of this.

 

[Alchemy]

Why do you Indians feel the need to tell us what is in our interest. I am always minded to support the opposite positions cos on the whole Indians do not wish us well

How do you think the rest of the Arab world would perceive your association with Iran and this juncture , just need to understand from Pakistani point of view

 

[lem34]

Iranians are surely Against Americans in Afghanistan but not a supporter of Taliban regime after seeing the massacre of Shia Hazaras. They will resist American or NATO presence in Afghanistan but they are never against Russia, India or China's presence in Afghanistan. Transit through Chabahar and proposed Hajigak-Chabahar Rail link is the proof of this.

The Shia Iran sectarian issue is one that Sauds encourage cos they are scared of their own population doing an Iranian type of revolution. Pakistan and Iran can easily accommodate each other in Afghanistan. The greatest Pakistani that has lived was the Quaid and he was a shia. I along with other Sunnis have no issue with our shia brothers

How do you think the rest of the Arab world would perceive your association with Iran and this juncture , just need to understand from Pakistani point of view

Arab world is lost to us. America sees you a proxy to the detriment of Pakistan in our neighbourhood. Sauds are just commission agents for oil.

Dont forget: Tel Aviv-AIPAC-AMERICA-Sauds with Sauds at the lowest rung

Then why Iran still allowing India a transit route to central Asia through Chabahar.

Early days.

Guys immaterial of the ideology of the 4 countries I have mentioned this alliance is being formed not because the constituent countries particularly like each other but by American hatred towards any accommodation of their natural aspirations

 

[RiazHaq]

Pakistan should look after its own interests.

It is in Pakistan's best interest in the current environment to not defy US, Saudi Arabia and the rest of the international community which has imposed sanctions on Iran. We should learn from the Chinese in how they are dealing with it.

Besides, Iran's interests in Afghanistan conflict are not aligned with those of Pakistan. Iran is aligned with India in its support of Tajik-dominated Northern Alliance which is extremely hostile to Pakistani interests.

 

[Developereo]

Relations with Turkey are indispensable but We don't have to go out of the way to please the Arabs - We just need to build strong economy and give a big middle finger to Arabs.Our Relations with Arabs should be strictly transactional as you know Arabian Countries are tilting towards India hence we must develop a strong economy like Turkey before it's too late.

Not all Arab countries are the same. Even the Saudis are having internal power struggles and we can hope the power tilts towards those more amenable to regional cooperation. KSA is home to Mecca and Medina. It is the heart of our religion. That land, if not always its leadership, will always be at the center of our hearts. Just like Karbala and Najaf.

I think that is artificial and being created by Americans. Remember Sauds are blatantly following America's lead. The Turks I love but they are constrained somewhat cos of there membership of Nato. Remember they disappointed Islamabad at the regional conference on Afghanistan that was held in Turkey

As I wrote, there may yet be hope for the outcome of the Saudi power struggles. As for Turkey, we can't throw in the towel so easily. Even Iran is working closely with India on Chah-Bahar. We can't afford to be so sensitive on every issue.

 

[Bond]

I understand you are very proud of pakistani jihadis/ terrorists trying to destabilize Afgahnistan & make their life hell.. but Indai's investment in Afghanistan is for betterment & development of local people...

[/COLOR]
The only game in town is back on. It will be interesting how India's investments in Afghanistan will fair now.


Asia Times Online :: Why Putin is driving Washington nuts

 

[DDLJ]

The Shia Iran sectarian issue is one that Sauds encourage cos they are scared of their own population doing an Iranian type of revolution. Pakistan and Iran can easily accommodate each other in Afghanistan. The greatest Pakistani that has lived was the Quaid and he was a shia. I along with other Sunnis have no issue with our shia brothers

Shias and Sunnis can live together in Pakistan peacefully but it is impossible to implement the same in Afghanistan under the ideology Taliban is following there.

And till now I don't see any sign from Iran that they are tilting their positions towards Pakistan, they only oppose American hegemony in Afghanistan, I never heard Iran praising Taliban movement.

 

[lem34]

Not all Arab countries are the same. Even the Saudis are having internal power struggles and we can hope the power tilts towards those more amenable to regional cooperation. KSA is home to Mecca and Medina. It is the heart of our religion. That land, if not always its leadership, will always be at the center of our hearts. Just like Karbala and Najaf.



As I wrote, there may yet be hope for the outcome of the Saudi power struggles. As for Turkey, we can't throw in the towel so easily. Even Iran is working closely with India on Chah-Bahar. We can't afford to be so sensitive on every issue.

I did not suggest throw in the towel sorry for that. Turkey will play in times to come play a pivot role. It is in Nato but its location and sensitivities are with us. SCO will if America continues in its march end up being a counterweight imo to Nato

 

[Alchemy]

Infact there is a convergence of interests here , India is pro Iran and will remain so in the for seeable future .... Irans oil , access to central asia through Chabahar and trade with Afghanistan through Chabahar are very important for India .

Pakistan has its own reasons for aligning with Iran much to the chagrin of its Arab friends , though not for mutual love for each other but due to mutual hatred against USA ...

 

[lem34]

Shias and Sunnis can live together in Pakistan peacefully but it is impossible to implement the same in Afghanistan under the ideology Taliban is following there.

And till now I don't see any sign from Iran that they are tilting their positions towards Pakistan, they only oppose American hegemony in Afghanistan, I never heard Iran praising Taliban movement.

Listen mate they follow the same textbooks of our Mr waahebs that are being used as standard in Saudi curriculum. If Saudis can ally with Zionists and Americans you would be amazed what can be done with a bit of corrective therapy correctly applied

Infact there is a convergence of interests here , India is pro Iran and will remain so in the for seeable future .... Irans oil , access to central asia through Chabahar and trade with Afghanistan through Chabahar are very important for India .

Pakistan has its own reasons for aligning with Iran much to the chagrin of its Arab friends , though not for mutual love for each other but due to mutual hatred against USA ...

Read post 34 properly and you couldn't possibly come to the conclusion that you do

 

[Bond]

India's partnership with USA is based on mutual benefits & long lasting relationship... you can not understand these kind of relationships.. you guys only understand the 'Master- puppet' kind of relationship... only change is earlier master was USA & now that honor has been given to China...

Lets look at Indian friendship with America. I suggest that you stop using emotive language as once I start you wont know where to look.

 

[lem34]

I understand you are very proud of pakistani jihadis/ terrorists trying to destabilize Afgahnistan & make their life hell.. but Indai's investment in Afghanistan is for betterment & development of local people...

why do some of you Indians whose education prevents substantive and meaningful discussion feel that you have to put a post where I am. Go back and read all the posts on this thread slowly and you might get the satire.

India's partnership with USA is based on mutual benefits & long lasting relationship... you can not understand these kind of relationships.. you guys only understand the 'Master- puppet' kind of relationship... only change is earlier master was USA & now that honor has been given to China...

Not only do you look to Americans to pat you on the bottom or head but you prostate before a white former air hostess