Not whilst India goes towards America
Pakistani leaders call for strong Iran-Pakistan relationship
- Thread starter lem34
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Not whilst India goes towards America
America is also crossing Russia and China's red lines. Whilst India is being groomed by America as a proxy.
Inevitably their will be some reallignment in our neighbourhood
longbrained
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That is a wonderful news. We need to create a new block based on mutual economic and technological needs between Pakistan, Iran, China and Russia. There is alot to be gained from it. In 2014 Americans are leaving and we must get ourselves ready to fill the vacuum. It is too dangerous to leave it to Indians to fill this gap which is coming.
For those that can read between the lines its already happening. Russia China Iran and Pakistan.
Why else would Putin have Pakistan as the first place he is visiting after his election as President
Developereo
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As much as I respect Iran and have advocated close ties in the past, I am starting to have serious doubts about the Iranians. They can't get along with the Arabs and now the Turks.
We should definitely improve relations with Iran, but make it clear that it is not at the expense of our relationship with the Arabs and Turks.
We should definitely improve relations with Iran, but make it clear that it is not at the expense of our relationship with the Arabs and Turks.
longbrained
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We must not let Americans to use India as their proxy when they leave the region in 2014. We must make new alliances with Iran, China and Russia and control the region ourselves. This is of utmost importance.
Infinite
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Relations with Turkey are indispensable but We don't have to go out of the way to please the Arabs - We just need to build strong economy and give a big middle finger to Arabs.Our Relations with Arabs should be strictly transactional as you know Arabian Countries are tilting towards India hence we must develop a strong economy like Turkey before it's too late.
I think that is artificial and being created by Americans. Remember Sauds are blatantly following America's lead. The Turks I love but they are constrained somewhat cos of there membership of Nato. Remember they disappointed Islamabad at the regional conference on Afghanistan that was held in Turkey
longbrained
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I know. It is too dangerous to leave the region to Americans via their Indian proxies. Putin knows that. We know that. I hope Iranians and Chinese start knowing that too.
We have to do what is in our supreme national interest. The alliance I am talking about is inevitable if America keeps touching those red lines. Pakistan cannot and never will assist in containing China
Mate we cant stop that. But it suits us cos Russia China and Iran agree with us that they do not see India as American proxy a good thing
Mate we cant stop that. But it suits us cos Russia China and Iran agree with us that they do not see India as American proxy a good thing
If its general trend in Pakistan to oppose USA why not Government of Pakistan respect the public opinion ???
To avoid India-USA partnership ???
I don't think there will be India-USA friendship like Pak and USA had in past. It will be partnership but no friendship. No country is permanent friend in world plus India will not hurt Russia with such steps. I hope someday India will able to bring USA-RUSSIA-INDIA and if China wants China too together for collective development and prosperity. Dream
Because our leaders think from their rears rather than with their heads. Pakistan needs to have balanced relations with both the US and Iran. We should stay out of doing anything that hurts the interests of one or the other or making statements that sound like they are at the expense of one of the two parties.
This is something that only those who govern learn, the parties in opposition essentially run their mouths till the point they get into office and then realize the reality of the delicate matters of geo-politics. As we say in Pakistan, "bolti bund ho jaati hai hakoomat may aakar" so in essense all this tough talking and anti-abc rhetoric goes out the window when you realize you have to tread carefully and balance all sides as it makes absolutely zero sense to talk one friendship up so much that it comes at the expense of another relation (another example of this has been the recent Pak-China friendship campaign which is being used to stick our thumb at the Americans, but in reality, Pakistan needs cordial and decent relations with both US and China).
I only wish our leaders would move away from emotional, jazbaati rhetoric to a more pragmatic one (obviously by this I do not mean that we go against Iran here, we must not!).
Also you said "USA-RUSSIA-INDIA and if China wants China too", so why leave Pakistan out?
I agree with you partially in that I agree on your comments on our leadership. But I must point out to you you can take a horse to water but not force it to drink. American interests and visions in particular with the silk road project cross several of our red lines. Unless we bend to those American wishes they will continue the destabalising and hurting Pakistan. Under these circumstances it is virtually impossible for us to stay on cordial terms with America
Solomon2
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I am very suspect of the motives of those who call for good relations between Iran and Pakistan. I doubt it will last. I consider Pakistan a military junta with a smear of democracy added. The military retains primacy by playing up threats to the country, real or not. The Indian threat is winding down and the campaign against terrorists is ineffective depending on whether one cites incompetence or poor enthusiasm, so the military is gradually losing some authority.
But, if Iran achieves nuclear weapons capability the military has a new life-line: the Iranian threat. The military can then cite Iran to strengthen its case for primacy once more. There will be little talk of good relations between Iran and Pakistan after that - unless, of course, some new enemy is created for the benefit of Pakistan's military.
But, if Iran achieves nuclear weapons capability the military has a new life-line: the Iranian threat. The military can then cite Iran to strengthen its case for primacy once more. There will be little talk of good relations between Iran and Pakistan after that - unless, of course, some new enemy is created for the benefit of Pakistan's military.
Why Putin is driving Washington nuts
By Pepe Escobar
Forget the past (Saddam, Osama, Gaddafi) and the present (Assad, Ahmadinejad). A bet can be made over a bottle of Petrus 1989 (the problem is waiting the next six years to collect); for the foreseeable future, Washington's top bogeyman - and also for its rogue North Atlantic Treaty Organization partners and assorted media shills - will be none other than back-to-the-future Russian President Vladimir Putin.
And make no mistake; Vlad the Putinator will relish it. He's back exactly where he wants to be; as Russia's commander-in-chief, in charge of the military, foreign policy and all national security matters.
Anglo-American elites still squirm at the mention of his now legendary Munich 2007 speech, when he blasted the then George W Bush administration for its obsessively unipolar imperial agenda "through a system which has nothing to do with democracy" and non-stop overstepping of its "national borders in almost all spheres"."
So Washington and its minions have been warned. Before last Sunday's election, Putin even advertised his road map The essentials; no war on Syria; no war on Iran; no "humanitarian bombing" or fomenting "color revolutions" - all bundled into a new concept, "illegal instruments of soft power". For Putin, a Washington-engineered New World Order is a no-go. What rules is "the time-honored principle of state sovereignty".
No wonder. When Putin looks at Libya, he sees the graphic, regressive consequences of NATO's "liberation" through "humanitarian bombing"; a fragmented country controlled by al-Qaeda-linked militias; backward Cyrenaica splitting from more developed Tripolitania; and a relative of the last king brought in to rule the new "emirate" - to the delight of those model democrats of the House of Saud.
More key essentials; no US bases encircling Russia; no US missile defense without strict admission, in writing, that the system will never target Russia; and increasingly close cooperation among the BRICS group of emerging powers.
Most of this was already implied in Putin's previous road map - his paper A new integration project for Eurasia: The future in the making. That was Putin's ippon - he loves judo - against the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO), the International Monetary Fund and hardcore neo-liberalism. He sees a Eurasian Union as a "modern economic and currency union" stretching all across Central Asia.
For Putin, Syria is an important detail (not least because of Russia's naval base in the Mediterranean port of Tartus, which NATO would love to abolish). But the meat of the matter is Eurasia integration. Atlanticists will freak out en masse as he puts all his efforts into coordinating "a powerful supranational union that can become one of the poles of today's world while being an efficient connecting link between Europe and the dynamic Asia-Pacific Region".
The opposite roadmap will be Obama and Hillary's Pacific doctrine. Now how exciting is that?
Putin plays Pipelineistan
It was Putin who almost single-handedly spearheaded the resurgence of Russia as a mega energy superpower (oil and gas accounts for two-thirds of Russia's exports, half of the federal budget and 20% of gross domestic product). So expect Pipelineistan to remain key.
And it will be mostly centered on gas; although Russia holds no less than 30% of global gas supplies, its liquid natural gas (LNG) production is less than 5% of the global market share. It's not even among the top ten producers.
Putin knows that Russia will need buckets of foreign investment in the Arctic - from the West and especially Asia - to keep its oil production above 10 million barrels a day. And it needs to strike a complex, comprehensive, trillion-dollar deal with China centered on Eastern Siberia gas fields; the oil angle has been already taken care of via the East Siberian Pacific Ocean (ESPO) pipeline. Putin knows that for China - in terms of securing energy - this deal is a vital counterpunch against Washington's shady "pivoting" towards Asia.
Putin will also do everything to consolidate the South Stream pipeline - which may end up costing a staggering $22 billion (the shareholder agreement is already signed between Russia, Germany, France and Italy. South Stream is Russian gas delivered under the Black Sea to the southern part of the EU, through Bulgaria, Serbia, Hungary and Slovakia). If South Stream is a go, rival pipeline Nabucco is checkmated; a major Russian victory against Washington pressure and Brussels bureaucrats.
Everything is still up for grabs at the crucial intersection of hardcore geopolitics and Pipelineistan. Once again Putin will be facing yet another Washington road map - the not exactly successful New Silk Road (See US's post-2014 Afghan agenda falters, Asia Times Online, Nov 4, 2011.)
And then there's the joker in the pack - the Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO). Putin will want Pakistan to become a full member as much as China is interested in incorporating Iran. The repercussions would be ground-breaking - as in Russia, China, Pakistan and Iran coordinating not only their economic integration but their mutual security inside a strengthened SCO, whose motto is "non-alignment, non-confrontation and non-interference in the affairs of other countries".
Putin sees that with Russia, Central Asia and Iran controlling no less than 50% of world's gas reserves, and with Iran and Pakistan as virtual SCO members, the name of the game becomes Asia integration - if not Eurasia's. The SCO develops as an economic/security powerhouse, while, in parallel, Pipelineistan accelerates the full integration of the SCO as a counterpunch to NATO. The regional players themselves will decide what makes more sense - this or a New Silk Road invented in Washington.
Make no mistake. Behind the relentless demonization of Putin and the myriad attempts to delegitimize Russia's presidential elections, lie some very angry and powerful sections of Washington and Anglo-American elites.
They know Putin will be an ultra tough negotiator on all fronts. They know Moscow will apply increasingly closer coordination with China; on thwarting permanent NATO bases in Afghanistan; on facilitating Pakistan's strategic autonomy; on opposing missile defense; on ensuring Iran is not attacked.
He will be the devil of choice because there could not be a more formidable opponent in the world stage to Washington's plans - be they coded as Greater Middle East, New Silk Road, Full Spectrum Dominance or America's Pacific Century. Ladies and gentlemen, let's get ready to rumble
The only game in town is back on. It will be interesting how India's investments in Afghanistan will fair now.
Asia Times Online :: Why Putin is driving Washington nuts
By Pepe Escobar
Forget the past (Saddam, Osama, Gaddafi) and the present (Assad, Ahmadinejad). A bet can be made over a bottle of Petrus 1989 (the problem is waiting the next six years to collect); for the foreseeable future, Washington's top bogeyman - and also for its rogue North Atlantic Treaty Organization partners and assorted media shills - will be none other than back-to-the-future Russian President Vladimir Putin.
And make no mistake; Vlad the Putinator will relish it. He's back exactly where he wants to be; as Russia's commander-in-chief, in charge of the military, foreign policy and all national security matters.
Anglo-American elites still squirm at the mention of his now legendary Munich 2007 speech, when he blasted the then George W Bush administration for its obsessively unipolar imperial agenda "through a system which has nothing to do with democracy" and non-stop overstepping of its "national borders in almost all spheres"."
So Washington and its minions have been warned. Before last Sunday's election, Putin even advertised his road map The essentials; no war on Syria; no war on Iran; no "humanitarian bombing" or fomenting "color revolutions" - all bundled into a new concept, "illegal instruments of soft power". For Putin, a Washington-engineered New World Order is a no-go. What rules is "the time-honored principle of state sovereignty".
No wonder. When Putin looks at Libya, he sees the graphic, regressive consequences of NATO's "liberation" through "humanitarian bombing"; a fragmented country controlled by al-Qaeda-linked militias; backward Cyrenaica splitting from more developed Tripolitania; and a relative of the last king brought in to rule the new "emirate" - to the delight of those model democrats of the House of Saud.
More key essentials; no US bases encircling Russia; no US missile defense without strict admission, in writing, that the system will never target Russia; and increasingly close cooperation among the BRICS group of emerging powers.
Most of this was already implied in Putin's previous road map - his paper A new integration project for Eurasia: The future in the making. That was Putin's ippon - he loves judo - against the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO), the International Monetary Fund and hardcore neo-liberalism. He sees a Eurasian Union as a "modern economic and currency union" stretching all across Central Asia.
For Putin, Syria is an important detail (not least because of Russia's naval base in the Mediterranean port of Tartus, which NATO would love to abolish). But the meat of the matter is Eurasia integration. Atlanticists will freak out en masse as he puts all his efforts into coordinating "a powerful supranational union that can become one of the poles of today's world while being an efficient connecting link between Europe and the dynamic Asia-Pacific Region".
The opposite roadmap will be Obama and Hillary's Pacific doctrine. Now how exciting is that?
Putin plays Pipelineistan
It was Putin who almost single-handedly spearheaded the resurgence of Russia as a mega energy superpower (oil and gas accounts for two-thirds of Russia's exports, half of the federal budget and 20% of gross domestic product). So expect Pipelineistan to remain key.
And it will be mostly centered on gas; although Russia holds no less than 30% of global gas supplies, its liquid natural gas (LNG) production is less than 5% of the global market share. It's not even among the top ten producers.
Putin knows that Russia will need buckets of foreign investment in the Arctic - from the West and especially Asia - to keep its oil production above 10 million barrels a day. And it needs to strike a complex, comprehensive, trillion-dollar deal with China centered on Eastern Siberia gas fields; the oil angle has been already taken care of via the East Siberian Pacific Ocean (ESPO) pipeline. Putin knows that for China - in terms of securing energy - this deal is a vital counterpunch against Washington's shady "pivoting" towards Asia.
Putin will also do everything to consolidate the South Stream pipeline - which may end up costing a staggering $22 billion (the shareholder agreement is already signed between Russia, Germany, France and Italy. South Stream is Russian gas delivered under the Black Sea to the southern part of the EU, through Bulgaria, Serbia, Hungary and Slovakia). If South Stream is a go, rival pipeline Nabucco is checkmated; a major Russian victory against Washington pressure and Brussels bureaucrats.
Everything is still up for grabs at the crucial intersection of hardcore geopolitics and Pipelineistan. Once again Putin will be facing yet another Washington road map - the not exactly successful New Silk Road (See US's post-2014 Afghan agenda falters, Asia Times Online, Nov 4, 2011.)
And then there's the joker in the pack - the Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO). Putin will want Pakistan to become a full member as much as China is interested in incorporating Iran. The repercussions would be ground-breaking - as in Russia, China, Pakistan and Iran coordinating not only their economic integration but their mutual security inside a strengthened SCO, whose motto is "non-alignment, non-confrontation and non-interference in the affairs of other countries".
Putin sees that with Russia, Central Asia and Iran controlling no less than 50% of world's gas reserves, and with Iran and Pakistan as virtual SCO members, the name of the game becomes Asia integration - if not Eurasia's. The SCO develops as an economic/security powerhouse, while, in parallel, Pipelineistan accelerates the full integration of the SCO as a counterpunch to NATO. The regional players themselves will decide what makes more sense - this or a New Silk Road invented in Washington.
Make no mistake. Behind the relentless demonization of Putin and the myriad attempts to delegitimize Russia's presidential elections, lie some very angry and powerful sections of Washington and Anglo-American elites.
They know Putin will be an ultra tough negotiator on all fronts. They know Moscow will apply increasingly closer coordination with China; on thwarting permanent NATO bases in Afghanistan; on facilitating Pakistan's strategic autonomy; on opposing missile defense; on ensuring Iran is not attacked.
He will be the devil of choice because there could not be a more formidable opponent in the world stage to Washington's plans - be they coded as Greater Middle East, New Silk Road, Full Spectrum Dominance or America's Pacific Century. Ladies and gentlemen, let's get ready to rumble
The only game in town is back on. It will be interesting how India's investments in Afghanistan will fair now.
Asia Times Online :: Why Putin is driving Washington nuts
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