Pakistani & Indian Artillery

[scarcry]

bofors 400 actually we make spares now and upgraded to 45 cal. all our 155mm arty mostly 45 cal other than 152mm gun mstra s which is 52 cal 50km+ range.now indigenous bofors are coming and m777 too. as per rocket arty with 214mm and smerch 120km rockets we are way ahead.

 

[scarcry]

The bulk of the indian artillery is in fact the upgraded 155 mm m-46 howitzers.These were originally 130mm field guns upgraded to 155mm howitzers.

There are around 900 m-46s in indian service,what is generally unknown is around 550 were purchased from soviet bloc countries after USSR's collapse in the 90's by the IA, around 100-170 were upgraded to SP catapult artillery but they are still 130mm pieces with around 28 km range.
360 have been upgraded to 155 mm towed versions by soltam and OFB with a range of 39 kms.
The rest are still field guns being slowly upgraded to 155mm calibre.
Apart from this 200 bofors guns.
We also have 100+ 2s1 122mm SP artillery guns.

Plus around 500 122mm d-30 towed artillery howitzers and another smaller calibres.
We also have 100 180 mm soviet s-23 heavy artillery.

In MBRLs we have around 100 PINAKA,150 BM-21 grad and 62 smerch.

So its clear we are slightly ahead in MBRLs,badly lagging in SP artillery and a little behind in towed pieces.Our main problem is our calibres are old and smaller while pakistani calibres are around 155mm standardized.
All in all PA is definitely ahead in quality of tube artillery,not necessarily quantity.
In Rocket artillery we are slightly ahead.
My thoughts.

buddy we now make spares so 400 bofors at max operation. check link. the bofors most are now 45 cal. pic. also we now make upgraded smerch (120 km).overall most 155mm arty in india is 45 cal. global security link gives good idea. 152mm /52 cal MSTRA - S gun is a pleasant surprise.

The bulk of the indian artillery is in fact the upgraded 155 mm m-46 howitzers.These were originally 130mm field guns upgraded to 155mm howitzers.

There are around 900 m-46s in indian service,what is generally unknown is around 550 were purchased from soviet bloc countries after USSR's collapse in the 90's by the IA, around 100-170 were upgraded to SP catapult artillery but they are still 130mm pieces with around 28 km range.
360 have been upgraded to 155 mm towed versions by soltam and OFB with a range of 39 kms.
The rest are still field guns being slowly upgraded to 155mm calibre.
Apart from this 200 bofors guns.
We also have 100+ 2s1 122mm SP artillery guns.

Plus around 500 122mm d-30 towed artillery howitzers and another smaller calibres.
We also have 100 180 mm soviet s-23 heavy artillery.

In MBRLs we have around 100 PINAKA,150 BM-21 grad and 62 smerch.

So its clear we are slightly ahead in MBRLs,badly lagging in SP artillery and a little behind in towed pieces.Our main problem is our calibres are old and smaller while pakistani calibres are around 155mm standardized.
All in all PA is definitely ahead in quality of tube artillery,not necessarily quantity.
In Rocket artillery we are slightly ahead.
My thoughts.

buddy we now make spares so 400 bofors at max operation. check link. the bofors most are now 45 cal. pic. also we now make upgraded smerch (120 km).overall most 155mm arty in india is 45 cal. global security link gives good idea. 152mm /52 cal MSTRA - S gun is a pleasant surprise.

 

[Abingdonboy]

We lag in arty compared to Pakistan. There are no two ways around this fact.

Very correct sir, especially on the SPG/H front. The IA has no real SPG/H capability to speak of (the FH77 does NOT count). For too long the ghost of Bofors has haunted the IA and namely MoD/GoI into inaction on the arty front. It has only been in the last 1-2 years anything in this respect has begun to change.



For sure by 2017-22, the IA will come out victoious. Between now and that time the IA is planning to spend in excess of $5 BN USD purely on ~3,000 arty pieces of all types (ULH, SPG/H, towed etc).



@Badbadman the M-777 ULH purchase is one,tiny, facet of the arty modernization/expansion program and anyway is being procured specifically for the new Mountain Divisions the IA is setting up. This weapon will have almost zero baring on the IA-PA equation.



Having said that, on the MBRL front (which is classified as arty) the IA is streaks ahead of the PA and (possibly) even the PLA. The PINKA (not being upgraded to MK.2 standard) and SMERCH are a lethal combo the IA has in its possession and in ever growing numbers.

 

[scarcry]

Very correct sir, especially on the SPG/H front. The IA has no real SPG/H capability to speak of (the FH77 does NOT count). For too long the ghost of Bofors has haunted the IA and namely MoD/GoI into inaction on the arty front. It has only been in the last 1-2 years anything in this respect has begun to change.



For sure by 2017-22, the IA will come out victoious. Between now and that time the IA is planning to spend in excess of $5 BN USD purely on ~3,000 arty pieces of all types (ULH, SPG/H, towed etc).



@Badbadman the M-777 ULH purchase is one,tiny, facet of the arty modernization/expansion program and anyway is being procured specifically for the new Mountain Divisions the IA is setting up. This weapon will have almost zero baring on the IA-PA equation.



Having said that, on the MBRL front (which is classified as arty) the IA is streaks ahead of the PA and (possibly) even the PLA. The PINKA (not being upgraded to MK.2 standard) and SMERCH are a lethal combo the IA has in its possession and in ever growing numbers.

We do have this. Even Jane's and Global security mentions it.

It can fire 155mm Kranspol shells that are also used by FH-77B

 

[Contrarian]

Very correct sir, especially on the SPG/H front. The IA has no real SPG/H capability to speak of (the FH77 does NOT count). For too long the ghost of Bofors has haunted the IA and namely MoD/GoI into inaction on the arty front. It has only been in the last 1-2 years anything in this respect has begun to change.



For sure by 2017-22, the IA will come out victoious. Between now and that time the IA is planning to spend in excess of $5 BN USD purely on ~3,000 arty pieces of all types (ULH, SPG/H, towed etc).

IA and MoD have always been ready to spend. The only problem is that the tender never gets finished.

 

[Koovie]

We do have this. Even Jane's and Global security mentions it.

Well this is completely new to me..... any pics of them in IA service?

 

[Abingdonboy]

IA and MoD have always been ready to spend. The only problem is that the tender never gets finished.

Indeed and things are shaping up to be different this time.

 

[notorious_eagle]

Having said that, on the MBRL front (which is classified as arty) the IA is streaks ahead of the PA and (possibly) even the PLA. The PINKA (not being upgraded to MK.2 standard) and SMERCH are a lethal combo the IA has in its possession and in ever growing numbers.

Please substantiate this claim?

IA is not even close to matching the numbers that PLA is fielding in terms of MBRLS in terms of both quality and quantity. In fact, the advantage that IA held against PA is eroding with time as PA is introducing 300 A-100 batteries. The SMERCH was no doubt an absolute hammer, it allowed the IA to strike at PA Armoured Formations from stand off ranges. Things have changed now because the PA has introduced the A-100 system, the SMERCH batteries are going to be open to CBM fire.

 

[scarcry]

Please substantiate this claim?

IA is not even close to matching the numbers that PLA is fielding in terms of MBRLS in terms of both quality and quantity. In fact, the advantage that IA held against PA is eroding with time as PA is introducing 300 A-100 batteries. The SMERCH was no doubt an absolute hammer, it allowed the IA to strike at PA Armoured Formations from stand off ranges. Things have changed now because the PA has introduced the A-100 system, the SMERCH batteries are going to be open to CBM fire.

a100 copy of smerch.We gettin new smerch with 120km range. BTW we are producing smerch on tatra.

not including Pinaka (214mm easily upgradable to 300mm) production

With military satellite drones and air superority along with best targetting systems, we own the battlefield.

Regarding PLA less said the better. They believe in quantity not quality.

 

[scarcry]

Well this is completely new to me..... any pics of them in IA service?

A rare mention of them exists on logs of 1990s (late) on proposal to buy many. Just like 180mm gun, S300, these are IA's special weapons for pakistanis. Graph shows accurate reports of upto 360 pieces . 110-150 min.

 

[Markus]

A rare mention of them exists on logs of 1990s (late) on proposal to buy many. Just like 180mm gun, S300, these are IA's special weapons for pakistanis. Graph shows accurate reports of upto 360 pieces . 110-150 min.

Yeah....S300 is fully operational for Mumbai and Delhi, will be diff. to give links.

 

[scarcry]

It was on livefist BTW. Lost link. Search on Google.

 

[notorious_eagle]

With military satellite drones and air superority along with best targetting systems, we own the battlefield.

Regarding PLA less said the better. They believe in quantity not quality.

I didn't know that i was dealing with a Military Professional here. After your thought provoking analysis backed up by factual and logical proof, i am inclined to agree with you that Indian Army will indeed dominate the battlefield against PLA and PA. In fact, it is going to dominate the battlefield if pitted against the likes of US and Russian Army. India is indeed a military supa puwa, it is decades ahead compared to other nations.

Thank You so much for your delightful analysis

 

[RangerPK]

I didn't know that i was dealing with a Military Professional here. After your thought provoking analysis backed up by factual and logical proof, i am inclined to agree with you that Indian Army will indeed dominate the battlefield against PLA and PA. In fact, it is going to dominate the battlefield if pitted against the likes of US and Russian Army. India is indeed a military supa puwa, it is decades ahead compared to other nations.

Thank You so much for your delightful analysis

Of course. You should know Indians invented everything including modern military technology. The west and the Chinese just copied the Indians.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

As far as i know we don't have msta-s sp arty.
In mbrls we ARE ahead.
62 smerch systems ,100 pinaka plus 150 bm-21 grad older type.Pakistan has 36 odd a-100s and 70 odd krl-21 older types.

We are totally outgunned in SP artillery,pakistan has a huge SP gun arsenal.260 203mm m-110,650+ m-109s of all types,200 odd sh-1 howitzers.
Compare this to our pathetic 150 odd upgraded 130 mm m-46 catapults,110 2s1 122mm sp guns and u can see that we seriously lack in this dept.

In towed artillery our numbers are more or less equal but calibres are older and increasingly obsolete.
All in all our arty is in seriously bad shape.

Fortunately our armour has a good advantage atm,otherwise situation would have been bad.