vsdoc
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Sorry for butting in again but I sense a good moderate vs conservative vs fundamentalist/puritanical (we need some to join up) debate.
True. And a child is moulded by his/her immediate environment which slowly expands as he grows up - his parents, his family, his school, his peers, and finally by society.
As parents we try our best and give them what is right and wrong, what is good and bad, but even beyond that, kids are just amazing observant intelligent sponges which just soak up all visual, behavioral, moral, social, attitudnal, and situational cues around them.
But it is equally not true that you are necessarily a mirror of your parents. We are all unique individuals with our own moral systems. No one is born conservative or liberal or puritanical. Its also pretty easy to proclaim oneself to be a liberal when you are young and in college and leading a carefree/wild life.
A whole different perspective and cup of tea if you will once you have kids of your own, especially girls, and they start growing up. I find myself and my wife having numerous conversations/debates about this increasingly as my elder daughter grows up (she is still just 8 ) and I would be lying if I said that there isn't the temptation to have double standards - between your college day values and your parental ones, and your way of looking at your son versus your daughter.
Contrary to what Jana thinks of us (kidding! ), I'm not much of a nudist myself. I think a sari is the most glamorous dress draped well on a lady who is built like a lady (versus many models today).
But the point here is that this is Fashion ..... in its way it is live art and the designers are artists. It need not constrain itself to real life needs and situations, nor to the social and moral standards of sections of society.
No one says real-life women need to or necessarily would wear these clothes on the streets. But these are professionals (not "whores" as some enlightened gentleman referred to them as) of a serious industry. This is their job.
Its the garment that is being showcased, not the wearer. And there is a lot of money and recognition riding on shows like these ..... for Pakistan and Pakistanis. So there is some skin on display ..... big deal. I did not find any to be in poor taste or vulgar.
Here is where I completely lost you. Your respect for a woman should not be dependent on the clothes she chooses to wear. You are stereotyping and being judgmental.
And your line of thinking that women who dress "provocatively" (open to definition) are asking for and inviting (and dare I add the unsaid but insinuated - deserving of) abuse is where I totally part ways friend.
And living in the UK, do you think woman abuse is only a Western phenomenon ..... and is wholly or partially attributable to the clothes their women wear? If so I have news for you from back home!
Also, what about the mothers and bhabhis. Do you want a 20-something to dress like her mother/aunt/bhabhi? Why?
Now I am waiting for some Pakistani maulanas here to berate my Indian values and morals.
Btw, on a totally different tangent ..... Pakistani women have striking facial bone structure. I have been closely checking out the noses and cheekbones on all ..... hope that is ok maulana sahebs?
Cheers, Doc
By the age of 10 most of the children have their values embeded in their brain reagrding good bad, moral immoral etc.
True. And a child is moulded by his/her immediate environment which slowly expands as he grows up - his parents, his family, his school, his peers, and finally by society.
As parents we try our best and give them what is right and wrong, what is good and bad, but even beyond that, kids are just amazing observant intelligent sponges which just soak up all visual, behavioral, moral, social, attitudnal, and situational cues around them.
may be i was born conservative, but what is the defination of extremism on both fronts? change is always required to improve n most people resist it but again where is the balance n what is the defination of it?
But it is equally not true that you are necessarily a mirror of your parents. We are all unique individuals with our own moral systems. No one is born conservative or liberal or puritanical. Its also pretty easy to proclaim oneself to be a liberal when you are young and in college and leading a carefree/wild life.
A whole different perspective and cup of tea if you will once you have kids of your own, especially girls, and they start growing up. I find myself and my wife having numerous conversations/debates about this increasingly as my elder daughter grows up (she is still just 8 ) and I would be lying if I said that there isn't the temptation to have double standards - between your college day values and your parental ones, and your way of looking at your son versus your daughter.
Long Skirts are the most beautiful dress for me n i love them above all, their is nothing worng in Westren culture as long as they fall within decency, but the defination of balance is not what u think is right but adapting to the society u live in, their norms and values.
"beauty need no ornaments"
what u see around urself these days, almost naked women.
Contrary to what Jana thinks of us (kidding! ), I'm not much of a nudist myself. I think a sari is the most glamorous dress draped well on a lady who is built like a lady (versus many models today).
But the point here is that this is Fashion ..... in its way it is live art and the designers are artists. It need not constrain itself to real life needs and situations, nor to the social and moral standards of sections of society.
No one says real-life women need to or necessarily would wear these clothes on the streets. But these are professionals (not "whores" as some enlightened gentleman referred to them as) of a serious industry. This is their job.
Its the garment that is being showcased, not the wearer. And there is a lot of money and recognition riding on shows like these ..... for Pakistan and Pakistanis. So there is some skin on display ..... big deal. I did not find any to be in poor taste or vulgar.
n here u got it all wrong, lady there is an element of respect i always assosicate with womens if that goes missing somehow then it becomes temptation n u definately dont wanna fall into later category. lets not play into men hand, n u sees the news in westren culture these days of women abuse.
Think of ur mother, sisters, bahbis, etc before even thinking n attributing these words. These words are insulting.
Here is where I completely lost you. Your respect for a woman should not be dependent on the clothes she chooses to wear. You are stereotyping and being judgmental.
And your line of thinking that women who dress "provocatively" (open to definition) are asking for and inviting (and dare I add the unsaid but insinuated - deserving of) abuse is where I totally part ways friend.
And living in the UK, do you think woman abuse is only a Western phenomenon ..... and is wholly or partially attributable to the clothes their women wear? If so I have news for you from back home!
Also, what about the mothers and bhabhis. Do you want a 20-something to dress like her mother/aunt/bhabhi? Why?
Now I am waiting for some Pakistani maulanas here to berate my Indian values and morals.
Btw, on a totally different tangent ..... Pakistani women have striking facial bone structure. I have been closely checking out the noses and cheekbones on all ..... hope that is ok maulana sahebs?
Cheers, Doc
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