Pakistani Cobra Crash Further Stresses Tired Fleet

[Inception-06]

Because India would've been pissed off.

And India is also buying it !

 

[tarrar]

Mi-35 can deploy and evacuate troops while providing heavy firepower support.

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You have posted 2 different pics here. Has PA bought MI 35 SUper Hind or just MI 35 Hind? The last pic is MI 35 Super Hind.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

You have posted 2 different pics here. Has PA bought MI 35 SUper Hind or just MI 35 Hind? The last pic is MI 35 Super Hind.

I dont know which one Army will buy.

 

[tarrar]

I dont know which one Army will buy.

So far the news is only saying MI35 & nothing else. So I hope PA is going for the advance one.

 

[airmarshal]

So far the news is only saying MI35 & nothing else. So I hope PA is going for the advance one.

The Super Hind is a South African version and it was modified by them, not produced by Russia.

 

[fatman17]

well the news is that army is not purchasing the Mi-35 but the ANF is.

 

[Pakistanisage]

It is time to develop our own Helicopter Gunships. A journey of a thousand miles begins with the first step.

 

[araz]

It is time to develop our own Helicopter Gunships. A journey of a thousand miles begins with the first step.

You are not realizing the complexity of the gunship. This is why so few countries produce them. Secondly we dont have a need for enough platforms to develop one. Thirdly we dont have the money.

 

[fanna4paf2]

now what is sanario where pakistan go buying gunship helicopter mi35 t127 or wz10

why pakistan never go for wz10 where no stone between deal. and when mi35 deal will final?

 

[Zarvan]

June 27, 2014
By USMAN ANSARI

The fatal crash of a Pakistani AH-1 Cobra attack helicopter puts added stress on an aging fleet. (Aamir Qureshi/AFP)

ISLAMABAD — The fatal crash of a Pakistan AH-1F Cobra helicopter gunship during a night training mission Wednesday has further whittled down the well-worn fleet at a time when it is engaged in efforts to cleanse North Waziristan of the Taliban and its allies.

Though the type of helicopter was not specified in any reports or statements, official sources gave off-the-record confirmation to Defense News that it was a Cobra gunship.

Though the cause of the crash, which killed the two crew, is still being investigated, it is thought a dust storm that blew up over the base in Multan, which is home to the Army’s aviation arm, was a factor.

Pakistan has been desperately trying to replace its 1980s era Cobra fleet for years, but has only managed to acquire a small number of surplus AH-1Fs from the US and ex-Jordanian helos.

However, analyst Usman Shabbir of the Pakistan Military Consortium think tank said the platform could soldier on until a replacement is found.

“I think the Cobra fleet would endure for a while. We have excellent maintenance and now overhaul facilities for them,” he said.

A small number of armed Airbus Helicopters AS550C3 Fennec helicopters were ordered to support the Cobras, but there is no sign yet of them in service.

Former Australian defense attache to Islamabad, Brian Cloughley, said 10 may have been ordered alongside the unarmed variant (of which one may have crashed in Islamabad in March 2011), but he is unsure if they were actually delivered.

Pakistan has not been able to obtain assistance from the US in this area. Efforts to acquire the AH-64 Apache were rebuffed by Washington, and what was considered the most likely alternative, the AH-1Z Viper, now also appears unlikely to be supplied.

This has left the Turkish TAI T-129 and the Chinese CAIC WZ-10 as the types most likely to replace the Cobra over the long term.

Turkey has attempted to sell the T-129 to Pakistan. It offered an initial number of T-129s free of charge and help to set up an assembly facility at the home of Pakistan’s aviation industry in Kamra, near Islamabad.

However, China is also reportedly offering its WZ-10, and even Turkish officials admit Beijing will be able to offer more flexible payment options.

To complicate matters further, Pakistan is also negotiating with Russia for a number of Mi-35 Hind gunships.

Pakistan already has a small number of Hind gunships that it acquired from defecting Afghan crews in the 1980s, and there has been talk of refurbishing them and bringing them into service.

But Cloughley says these airframes “are past usability.”

He is optimistic, though, that a deal will soon be signed.

“I don’t know the status of the Mi-35 deal, but Moscow is very keen to provide them and it only needs a go-ahead for things to move swiftly,” he said.

Another possible alternative, he said, is the Sikorsky Battlehawk.

The AH-60L Battlehawk has been ordered by the UAE, but Shabbir is unsure if Pakistan will opt for this.

“Maybe if it comes from US funding; it is not a dedicated gunship like Cobra, so the need to find a replacement for Cobras will still be there,” he said.

Cloughley, however, says finances again may force the decision.

“The Chinese machine apparently on offer, the Z-10, doesn’t measure up to the Mi-35 or go anywhere near the Battlehawk, but of course, as usual, it will all come down to money,” he said.

“I think in the long run the Chinese option seems more feasible during to better financial and wider weapons package,” Shabbir said.

Pakistani Cobra Crash Further Stresses Tired Fleet | Defense News | defensenews.com

Man for GOD sake we need Turkish Attack helicopters other wise every second day we are going to face this problem and we need those helicopters with TOT and also start production of Transport Helicopters soon

 

[Myth_buster_1]

You don't need the expensive Battlehawk or the Apache attack choppers for clobbering the terrorists. The cheaper Chinese Z-10 is eminently suitable for the job.

But, yes, if it's against India, then the story is different. You'll need nothing less than choppers of the Apache class.

Then i guess NATO is doing it wrong with Apache and Tiger. Right? Maybe NATO might hire you for your expertise in Defense.

 

[OrionHunter]

Then i guess NATO is doing it wrong with Apache and Tiger. Right? Maybe NATO might hire you for your expertise in Defense.

Your bluster is epic! Are they using Apaches against the TTP? I'm talking about the threat perception and economics. You can't afford Apaches, so the next best bet is the Chinese Z-10, which is eminently suitable on both counts.

 

[Luftwaffe]

It is time to develop our own Helicopter Gunships. A journey of a thousand miles begins with the first step.

Turkey has 60 T-129s on order but possibly in future the number could go to as much as 80. As araz said complexity to produce them but we did it with JF-17, our best chance is to look into Z-19 an AH-1 category Gunship and improve its armor and fire power, whether loan based as JF-17 program or allocate funds for it. I think if not today in next 3-4 Years we need to look into Z-19 as possible light attack Gunship which can take upgrade with 23/30mm autocannon. We are not talking 150; 40 would be sufficient one can argue why establish industry for merely 40 that is another thing in home development and maintenance is a much safer investment.

 

[fatman17]

Turkey has 60 T-129s on order but possibly in future the number could go to as much as 80. As araz said complexity to produce them but we did it with JF-17, our best chance is to look into Z-19 an AH-1 category Gunship and improve its armor and fire power, whether loan based as JF-17 program or allocate funds for it. I think if not today in next 3-4 Years we need to look into Z-19 as possible light attack Gunship which can take upgrade with 23/30mm autocannon. We are not talking 150; 40 would be sufficient one can argue why establish industry for merely 40 that is another thing in home development and maintenance is a much safer investment.

why cut and paste - go for the Z-10 as your lead attack helo. the engine is still considered its achilles heel.

 

[Luftwaffe]

why cut and paste - go for the Z-10 as your lead attack helo. the engine is still considered its achilles heel.

Interesting, did PAA check Z-10, should have checked out Z-10 instead of looking for an expensive piece of equipment T-129 that costs 35m a pop more expensive than JF-17 with US engine that too is not completed is it political decision or strategic decision what do we have in it with US Engine that could be blocked. If some of our equipment is loan based from China like JF-17 why not Z-10 improvements can always be suggested an rectified. No doubt A/T-129 is next after AH-64 but it is very expensive and there is always room for improvement in China product like wise. Question is what is the required Number by PAA for it's next Gen Gunships.