Pakistani & Chinese air forces kick off, Shaheen III (2014) exercise.

[Windjammer]

Brother ... A little correction !
This image is from Shaheen-1 exercise. JF-17, neither participated in Shaheen - I nor in II .... JF-17 was flying with Flanker just for the sake of ending ceremony formation flypast.

Too bad that Chinese brought their top fighter "Russian originated" in Pakistan while we don't have good relation either with Russia or its top ally.
While being an ally of USA we can't even use our jets on our soil against their potential rival without its permission ..... FRUITS OF BEING AMREEKI PITTHU.

Exercise Shaheen-I 2011
By Najam Khan | May 6, 2013 | JF-17 Thunder, Mirage-III/V, Uncategorized
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Exercise Shaheen-I (meaning “Falcon” in English) was the first version of this joint Pak-China air force exercise held in March 2011 at Rafiqui Air Base, Shorkot Pakistan.

PLAAF contingent comprising SU-27UBK Multirole fighters from 8th flight Academy (also known as “Agressors” ) participated in the exercise. The Exercise covered various air-to-air and air-to-ground combat scenarios. PAF’s Mirage-VEF, F-7PG and JF-17 also participated in Dis-similar Air Combat Training (DACT) missions with PLAAF Sukhois.

 

[Rank]

So how we always talking about "WE DONT HAVE ANY STRING WITH OUR F16s?" Why not F16s participated in ANY EXERCISE except with those countries where Americans have strong power over the head of that states...

 

[DANGER-ZONE]

Exercise Shaheen-I 2011
By Najam Khan | May 6, 2013 | JF-17 Thunder, Mirage-III/V, Uncategorized
Leave a comment
Exercise Shaheen-I (meaning “Falcon” in English) was the first version of this joint Pak-China air force exercise held in March 2011 at Rafiqui Air Base, Shorkot Pakistan.

PLAAF contingent comprising SU-27UBK Multirole fighters from 8th flight Academy (also known as “Agressors” ) participated in the exercise. The Exercise covered various air-to-air and air-to-ground combat scenarios. PAF’s Mirage-VEF, F-7PG and JF-17 also participated in Dis-similar Air Combat Training (DACT) missions with PLAAF Sukhois.

My Friend, PAF-WALLPAPER isn't an official website .... Najam has done remarkable work, gathered useful data and provided up to date info but yet some of the info isn't up to the mark.
Like for example, he has given many weapon configurations of JF-17 that include dual A2A missile launcher rack, that may be considered in future but currently in block - I / II, its is totally out of the question.
That was just an example ... but his work is Gr8 in all aspect.

Coming to the JF-17 participation, JF-17's first A2G bombing (GP MK-82 series) was conducted at High Marks -2010, probably on firepower display and first ever full fledged war games participation in Saffron Bandit'13.

 

[DANGER-ZONE]

Here is one more point, at the ending / starting ceremony of any exercise the participants and their major accounts are lined up for a group photo .... JF-17 is missing from Shaheen-1 exercise.

Similarly from RSAF ... Exercise-1

Exercise-2

Indus Viper - 13

NOTE - ^ This picture is cropped -- two more account were there.

 

[Windjammer]

@DANGER-ZONE, I am not sure dear as several sources indicated to the participation of JF-17 in the first series of Shaheen, even a Chinese site went on to say that the JF-17 faired quite well when pitted against the J-11.

Exercise Shaheen II Operational PAF and PLAAF Exercise
By Air Vice Marshal Manmohan Bahadur VM (Retd.)
Distinguished Fellow
Centre for Air Power Studies

The Shaheen series of bi-annual exercises between the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) and the
People's Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF) commenced in 2011 when, for the first time ever as part of
Shaheen I, a PLAAF contingent with Su-27UBKs deployed to Rafiqui airbase in Shorkot, Pakistan. PAF
flew its Mirage Vs, F-7PG and JF-17 during the two week exercise where Dis-similar Air Combat Training
(DACT) was supposed to have been conducted, besides the usual air to ground and air to air work. The
second part of the series, Shaheen II, took place in the past three weeks in Hotan (from 02 Sept 2013 and till
22 Sep 13) in the Xinjiang Uygur region of North West China. The PAF contingent again fielded Mirage Vs
and F-7 PGs and it has been claimed that this is the first ever exercise conducted by any other country in
Chinese airspace.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

@Windjammer
its a shame that we cant train our American jets against the Russian Sukhoi's although they form the frontline of Indian air force which we need to train against. training JF-17s and mirages is not enough.

F-16 pilots must be feeling left out and raging on the side benches

 

[Najam Khan]

@ topic:
PLAAF J-10s arrived in Rafiqui.

@Windjammer
its a shame that we cant train our American jets against the Russian Sukhoi's although they form the frontline of Indian air force which we need to train against. training JF-17s and mirages is not enough.

F-16 pilots must be feeling left out and raging on the side benches

True. The Americans specifically made such clauses to ensure that we don't get the best out of these machines. May be with passage of time these policies change but by then balance of power in the region would already be disturbed.

 

[Indus Falcon]

@Windjammer
its a shame that we cant train our American jets against the Russian Sukhoi's although they form the frontline of Indian air force which we need to train against. training JF-17s and mirages is not enough.

F-16 pilots must be feeling left out and raging on the side benches

Bhai sahab, our fay sola hawabaaz have flown flankers and know them inside out.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

@ topic:
PLAAF J-10s arrived in Rafiqui.


True. The Americans specifically made such clauses to ensure that we don't get the best out of these machines. May be with passage of time these policies change but by then balance of power in the region would already be disturbed.

Najam meri Jaan how are you buddy? missed you much.. so many people moved on or changed their names that I cant keep track.

how is your own site doing?

I agree with you these clauses are a real hamstring for us. Americans might have their reasons that Chinese dont get to see F-16s in action but really.. any American ally who flies American planes would be only facing an adversary who has mostly Russian planes in his air force so it only makes sense to train with real aircrafts if there is a chance


e.g. nothing can replace Red Octobar training against the German Mig 29s because the Hornets acting as aggressors cant mimic them due to different flight model and style.

there must be some creative way to bypass this restriction. I shouldnt say that out loud.

Bhai sahab, our fay sola hawabaaz have flown flankers and know them inside out.

Bhai Saab
you missing the point here. flying an opponent plane is not the same as facing it off with your best weapon. yes I agree that it helps in understanding what the opponent can pull off

e.g. the iraqi Mig 21 that was hijacked and brought to Israel helped the Israelis big time to understand the shortcomings of the plane and there is that. still .... how about training for real?

by the way.. flying the plane for a limited time and getting access to it doesnt mean knowing it inside out. one needs extended number of hours which cant be covered in few weeks of exercise

 

[Indus Falcon]

Najam meri Jaan how are you buddy? missed you much.. so many people moved on or changed their names that I cant keep track.

how is your own site doing?

I agree with you these clauses are a real hamstring for us. Americans might have their reasons that Chinese dont get to see F-16s in action but really.. any American ally who flies American planes would be only facing an adversary who has mostly Russian planes in his air force so it only makes sense to train with real aircrafts if there is a chance


e.g. nothing can replace Red Octobar training against the German Mig 29s because the Hornets acting as aggressors cant mimic them due to different flight model and style.

there must be some creative way to bypass this restriction. I shouldnt say that out loud.


Bhai Saab
you missing the point here. flying an opponent plane is not the same as facing it off with your best weapon. yes I agree that it helps in understanding what the opponent can pull off

e.g. the iraqi Mig 21 that was hijacked and brought to Israel helped the Israelis big time to understand the shortcomings of the plane and there is that. still .... how about training for real?

by the way.. flying the plane for a limited time and getting access to it doesnt mean knowing it inside out. one needs extended number of hours which cant be covered in few weeks of exercise

Bhai Sahab, I can't say much on a public forum, but I'm sure Munir and Windjammer could update you as to our capabilities against flankers.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Bhai Sahab, I can't say much on a public forum, but I'm sure Munir and Windjammer could update you as to our capabilities against flankers.

yes there are things that are best not said which I already hinted

I am just annoyed about this restriction in the first place which we dont have when it comes to say Mirages no matter how old. there was a chance that PPP government would have gone for Mirage 2000 jets they are quiet current and we would have matched them off against Chinese Flankers ..

 

[Munir]

I think we obey our commercial or political contract with the new/upgraded f16 very neatly. I think it is pretty much impossible to cheat. So i can guarantee that there is no dact between f16 and chinese planes.

 

[fatman17]

F-7PG and Mirage-Rose probably just like the last 2 excercises.

 

[blain2]

Brother ... A little correction !
This image is from Shaheen-1 exercise. JF-17, neither participated in Shaheen - I nor in II .... JF-17 was flying with Flanker just for the sake of ending ceremony formation flypast.

Too bad that Chinese brought their top fighter "Russian originated" in Pakistan while we don't have good relation either with Russia or its top ally.
While being an ally of USA we can't even use our jets on our soil against their potential rival without its permission ..... FRUITS OF BEING AMREEKI PITTHU.

A point or two in general. What is more important than flying the F-16s is to give the pilots a chance to fly against the Flanker and that can be done through sorties in the MIrage, F7 or JF-17 if the F-16s cannot be flown, although there is no stipulation against PAF flying the F-16s in training sorties with the Flankers. There is an assumption being made here that F-16s cannot fly but there is nothing factual. Now if we fly F-16s and then parade the evidence in front of the American authorities then it would be inviting such restrictions so its better to just take care of business without all the PR around it.

The only restriction on PAF if for exporting F-16 technology to China or any other third country. PAF does not have to disclose everything they do to the world. Suffice it to say, very many pilots are getting exposure to Flanker's capabilities and this knowledge is institutionalized. Very many instructors from CCS are part of such joint exercises and very many of these pilots have flown F-16s among other platforms during their careers so they can gauge the performance of F-16 and Flankers comparatively. Lastly, why is there such focus on this F-16 vs. Flanker match-up? PAF has to train for air superiority using all available platforms in such role. Many of the F-7, Mirage and JF-17 squadrons have to train in this role and this dissimilar experience against Flanker is just as important for these pilots as it may be for the F-16 squadrons.

 

[Pakistanisage]

Great news.

I hope to see a lot more of these joint drills in the future.

Yeah, let us hone our skills together.

There may come a day when these boys may be asked to fight a common Enemy....