Pakistani artillery vs Terror camps in Afghanistan.

[Shiji]

Don't know what you mean by normal?


That's what I know, adding to your D30:

Type 54 122mm gun:

View attachment 379732

Type 60 122 mm field gun:
The Type 60 122mm towed gun is the Soviet D-74 122mm gun produced by the Chinese under licence.

View attachment 379730

In the military if you say 122mm it is understood that it's the Type 54, if you mean D30 then you say D30.
As of current inventory we donot use the Type 60.
The Image you posted of Type 60 actually looks like the Chinese 130 mm Type 59.
As seen Here and Here.
Maybe that is why wiki confused the Type 60 with the 59.
P.S PA DOESNOT use the Panter aswell.

 

[Inception-06]

In the military if you say 122mm it is understood that it's the Type 54, if you mean D30 then you say D30.
As of current inventory we donot use the Type 60.
The Image you posted of Type 60 actually looks like the Chinese 130 mm Type 59.
As seen Here and Here.

The Images is originally for a model kit, you are confused, check the shield of both original M-46 and the D-74, dont compare the Muzzle and barrel check the shield!

 

[Shiji]

In the military if you say 122mm it is understood that it's the Type 54, if you mean D30 then you say D30.
As of current inventory we donot use the Type 60.
The Image you posted of Type 60 actually looks like the Chinese 130 mm Type 59.
As seen Here and Here.

In the military if you say 122mm it is understood that it's the Type 54, if you mean D30 then you say D30.
As of current inventory we donot use the Type 60.
The Image you posted of Type 60 actually looks like the Chinese 130 mm Type 59.
As seen Here and Here.

Edit: Maybe that is why wiki confused thr D74/Type 60 tothe T59

The Images is originally for a model kit, you are confused, check the shield of both original M-46 and the D-74, dont compare the Muzzle and barrel check the shield!

Not the M46, the M46 is alot different the the Type59. The M46 doesnot have a jack or the trail wheels.
Regarding shields even guns having difference of 1 serial number CAN have different shields.
So the same gun can have different shields, shields can also be removed for different.
But I won't be surprised the Type 59 and Type 60 resemblence.
Same carriage(lower body of gun) can have different super structures(Barell, chamber etc) on top.
So same looking gun CAN have different calibres.

 

[imadul]

Art of War:Assassins

Team Al Badr:

We don't need to go inside with our regular Army, we can send highly motivated and trained agents/killer& raid Teams with fake Afghan nationality, which do their work in civil and night!

Mission:Asymmetric warfare, psychological warfare, and surgical strikes.


The Al-Badr was an anti-Bangladesh paramilitary force which operated in Bangladesh against the Bengali nationalist movement during the Bangladesh Liberation War.

Yeah, and why would they do that?
Abadar still hanged in bangladesh, nobody cared in Pakistan.

 

[Fawadqasim1]

Why use missiles when cheaper 155mm shells have enough range and fire-power?

sir with due respect cheap shells causes more collateral damage which in turn provides more willing and motivated recruits to the enemy and this vicious cycle continues I think drones are a much better alternative.

 

[imadul]

Like @Horus @Oscar said, artillery strikes serve the purpose of creating a buffer zone, i.e making sure the terrorists training camps are far enough from our border. Once they are pushed back, the buffer zone will be guarded by drones and checkposts who will be ordered to kill anyone coming in the area indiscriminately. Using airstrikes and admission of troops on ground will be a declaration of war and openly attacking Afghanistan has a lot of drawback which have been discussed many times here.
---------
Even if you create that no-man's land in the Nangarhar-Kunar-nurestan belt under artillery range, facilitators will have to just slip few bombers from anywhere along 2430 Km long border. They will lie low and strike one or two times a year which will shatter all semblance of normalcy in Pakistan.
This is defensive approach. Pakistan will just wait for the next attack. They have to be successful only once and will achieve the desired results.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

Like @Horus @Oscar said, artillery strikes serve the purpose of creating a buffer zone, i.e making sure the terrorists training camps are far enough from our border. Once they are pushed back, the buffer zone will be guarded by drones and checkposts who will be ordered to kill anyone coming in the area indiscriminately. Using airstrikes and admission of troops on ground will be a declaration of war and openly attacking Afghanistan has a lot of drawback which have been discussed many times here.
---------
Even if you create that no-man's land in the Nangarhar-Kunar-nurestan belt under artillery range, facilitators will have to just slip few bombers from anywhere along 2430 Km long border. They will lie low and strike one or two times a year which will shatter all semblance of normalcy in Pakistan.
This is defensive approach. Pakistan will just wait for the next attack. They have to be successful only once and will achieve the desired results.

How can the normalcy of a 200m strong Muslim nation be shattered by a proxy bomb blast here and there? Even more when the fight is slowly and steadily being taken to the enemies?? How likely it is for the folks who believe that Ejel (appointed time) is the guarantor against death??? As far as I know post 9/11 type freeze doesn't occur in Pak no matter how many proxy bombers show up....

Finally people waking up to the Afghan nexus. All good suggestions which require careful thought. The Pakistanis have for too long naively hoped for an improvement in relations with Afghanistan. It hasn't happened and frankly won't happen. Pakistan needs to make work of securing the border, infiltrating and dismantling terror factories as well as repatriating Afghan refugees. Negligence on any task will be very costly.

Slowly and steadily take it to the enemies. Ajele ishe sheytan karishir - Devil messes with the staff done in haste. Let the common Afgan folks also get used to the fact that Doval the Devil's and Modi the Melun's men are fair games. I am pretty sure long range drones are next steps, and it will be hyped up with every action from the other side on Pak. My personal favorite is always like a couple of low flying Mirages with smart munitions taking out the "bosses" of NDS/RAW/TPP etc. lased down by the assets on the ground...

 

[mrrehan]

Getting MALE UCAVs off the shelf is easy for Pakistan, CH-4 of China is rumored to be operational with PA (they also crashed one too) China has offered CH-5 with ToT so MALE UCAVs are not big issue to have, currently HALE UAV/UCAV is issue to get and China is only practical hope.

Burraq is based on CH-3 which is battle tested platform and Pakistani companies are building UAVs since long so they have experties to build good MALE UCAV.

The more important thing is to cover the difficult terrain on PAK Afghan boarder through continuous surveillance though UAV's specially thermal sensors FLIR in night, and then neutralizing the threat with 155mm howitzer will not be huge repercussions as well as this will be quite cheaper then drone strike or high altitude booming. In my openion long endurance and FLIR is quite important.

 

[Fawadqasim1]

unless and until we take this war to indian cities no matter what we do this scourge will continue unabated periodically keeping our economy crippled

 

[Basel]

The more important thing is to cover the difficult terrain on PAK Afghan boarder through continuous surveillance though UAV's specially thermal sensors FLIR in night, and then neutralizing the threat with 155mm howitzer will not be huge repercussions as well as this will be quite cheaper then drone strike or high altitude booming. In my openion long endurance and FLIR is quite important.

If one have capable UCAV then no need to use 155mm guns, those UCAVs will be able to handle those.

 

[mrrehan]

sir with due respect cheap shells causes more collateral damage which in turn provides more willing and motivated recruits to the enemy and this vicious cycle continues I think drones are a much better alternative.

It doesn't matter drone or 155mm when it comes to *collateral damage* American drone strikes in Pakistan and elsewhere could be taken as example. The only difference is achieving the task in low cost. and with not political repercussions.

If one have capable UCAV then no need to use 155mm guns, those UCAVs will be able to handle those.

What about achieving the task in low cost. and with no political repercussions.

 

[Basel]

It doesn't matter drone or 155mm when it comes to *collateral damage* American drone strikes in Pakistan and elsewhere could be taken as example. The only difference is achieving the task in low cost. and with not political repercussions.



What about achieving the task in low cost. and with not political repercussions.

UCAVs like CH-4/5 are low cost solutions as they can also carry bombs too.

Using guns is having same effect on minds as using drones, Afghans will hate us but will not address our security concerns.

 

[jhungary]

The more important thing is to cover the difficult terrain on PAK Afghan boarder through continuous surveillance though UAV's specially thermal sensors FLIR in night, and then neutralizing the threat with 155mm howitzer will not be huge repercussions as well as this will be quite cheaper then drone strike or high altitude booming. In my openion long endurance and FLIR is quite important.

One of the suggest I heard from my days in Afghanistan is that they want the USAF to drop motion sensor on the mountain range in Eastern Afghanistan. I don't recall exactly why this plan was not go ahead, if I remember correctly there are some reason Pakistani government does not want this to happen (That I remember vividly because the request was from the afghan)

Taliban can defeat UAV with FLIR, they know how to hide and how to make hide out to cover their heat signature. I know for a fact they (the Tallies) have had ambushed the USSOCOM force in the area with disguist, when we operate at night and fly thru the area with a FLIR AC-130 first, then we insert our SF and they were still being ambushed.

 

[Shiji]

RCGs with FLIR on all highest points, having interlaping field of fires controlled by personell specially detailed at HQ.
Border divided into sectors, sectors be routinely patrolled using ISR missions by the C130s or Buraaq UAVs.
Planting of motion sensors, tripwires for signal shooters and infantry detecting radars.
Slowly fencing of the border.
A costly endevour and lengthy but one that would prove the most fruitful.

 

[mrrehan]

UCAVs like CH-4/5 are low cost solutions as they can also carry bombs too.

Using guns is having same effect on minds as using drones, Afghans will hate us but will not address our security concerns.

I have mention in few of my previous posts that UAV capable of FLIR should be using as surveillance purposes only and then use of 122 or 155mm howitzer. Missiles that goes with UAV doesn't comes cheap.

We are trying to stop infiltration not legal entry into Pakistan. We are not going war with Afghanistan they are our brothers yes but few. And for few we cant blame every one not give them expensive missile kill.

One of the suggest I heard from my days in Afghanistan is that they want the USAF to drop motion sensor on the mountain range in Eastern Afghanistan. I don't recall exactly why this plan was not go ahead, if I remember correctly there are some reason Pakistani government does not want this to happen (That I remember vividly because the request was from the afghan)

Taliban can defeat UAV with FLIR, they know how to hide and how to make hide out to cover their heat signature. I know for a fact they (the Tallies) have had ambushed the USSOCOM force in the area with disguist, when we operate at night and fly thru the area with a FLIR AC-130 first, then we insert our SF and they were still being ambushed.

They might be using tunnels to take cover but how long some one with an objective to infiltrate can't hide there.