Pakistani artillery vs Terror camps in Afghanistan.

[Pakistani E]

where did you get this Information about SF been used ?

The targets are being chosen by assets on the ground as the OP mentioned, there will never be an official announcement of it however.

 

[Shiji]

Your argument is flawed from the start.

Firstly, a ground operation is being conducted which means other arms are also present else than artillery therefore there is adequate security present around artillery positions. This also means that all calibres of weapons have reached the border to take part in Ops so discussing 3.7" or 35mm or 81mm mortar doesnt make any sense. The way you described of insurgent sneaking up behind a crest is not possible with a large number of troops present in Ops area.

Secondly, a constant barrage of 18 guns using approx 40kg shells of 155mm calibre are enough to cause massive amount of damage. If every fortification was super strong then PA would not be using artillery at all and just rely on PAF JDAM's or MLRS missiles. In fact then PA wouldnt be using artillery at all in FATA but PA used artillery very effectively in tribal areas.

Thirdly, Different calibre weapons have been used in WOT ops. 105mm used followed by 122mm.
The 155mm towed guns are short in number and are deployed on eastern border. The towed 155mm are M-198, M-114 and Panter. M-114 is outdated and has short range compared to others. There are around 150 M-198 and 70 or so panter.
In contrast there are 480+ 122mm and almost 400+ 105mm guns and these were the most widely used guns in PA WOT ops.

The guns used in majority and I claim majority as in 70 to 80% are medium guns. Field guns provide less effectiveness in mountainious area.
That to the Shining Barrel and 130 M46.
M198 are NOT used on the western border (Were previously used)
Pakiatan doesnot operate Panter it failed the trials, only one example is present in Nowshera.
80 percent of guns used on the western border are
3.7 Inch How (FC)
25 Pdr (FC)
M114 155 mm SB
The Korean and Chinese 130 mm
8 Inch Towed How.
You have never been to any area that has a Gun Posn in ops have you?
You donot have the structure of a bty, you donot have 6 guns (Bty) in the conventional way. It is a composite battery with either one or at max 2 guns covering a certian Centre of Arc while others are spread out on multiple C Of As to provide allround defence.
My argument is not flawed. You are applying conventional wisdom to LIC environment.
Keeping everything in mind the range covered inside afghan by arty would be 3 to 4 kms for the SB.
8 to 10 kms for the 130. And even in that coverage you will be only able to cover the first 3-4 kms because effective arty fire needs OPS for correction and FFE.
Ops cannot be created inside Afghanistan.
And unlike what you guys like to believe boots on ground inaide afghanistan is a rare event.

 

[Signalian]

You donot have the structure of a bty, you donot have 6 guns (Bty) in the conventional way. It is a composite battery with either one or at max 2 guns covering a certian Centre of Arc while others are spread out on multiple C Of As to provide allround defence.

That is not always the case, depends upon the many factors. There is no need to cover an area which does not posses target.

 

[Rashid Mahmood]

@Horus

Why are we so afraid to accept that SF on the ground are guiding/participating in these strikes?

It is not being afraid.
It's called strategy.
SF ops are never disclosed whatsoever,
and PA does not need to declare surgical strikes.

 

[Shiji]

That is not always the case, depends upon the many factors. There is no need to cover an area which does not posses target.

In the tribal belt Gun Posns this is 90 percnt of the case. There is no dedicated area where the Tangos can pop up from or fire rockets from. Hence WHOLE AOR around own defenses is covered by the arcs of fire. The tangos retreat as soon as first arty round lands even if it is far away from the terrorists. CofAs sometimes have to be changed within 5-10 mins for engagments of tgt out of traverse, personally used compass to lay guns (The most innacurate method of laying) to provide quick fire support.
And if somehow fire is required and the Gun Posn reports "Tgt out of traverse" then be ready for an a#s whooping by the comd.

 

[Signalian]

In the tribal belt Gun Posns this is 90 percnt of the case. There is no dedicated area where the Tangos can pop up from or fire rockets from. Hence WHOLE AOR around own defenses is covered by the arcs of fire.
And if somehow fire is required and the Gun Posn reports "Tgt out of traverse" then be ready for an a#s whooping by the comd.

You can include as many terminologies in your post and go in circles but its useless, unless you make sense relevant to the post. There is no hard and fast rule for any geographical area, limitations yes. This mean all guns can zero in on one position and pound it.

 

[Shiji]

You can include as many terminologies in your post and go in circles but its useless, unless you make sense relevant to the post. There is no hard and fast rule for any geographical area, limitations yes. This mean all guns can zero in on one position and pound it.

I was trying to help you understand the limitations but since you have already made up your mind then I can't say anything.
This make believe mentality needs to change. The sooner we realise it the better.

 

[Signalian]

I was trying to help you understand the limitations but since you have already made up your mind then I can't say anything.
This make believe mentality needs to change. The sooner we realise it the better.

Maybe i cant explain myself to you and understand that you cant reply to what i m conveying to you.

 

[WiderMan]

Can't we conduct airstrikes inside the AFG border? Afaik, ANA has no proper ADS' to protect their airspace. A 4 ship formation of 5 sqn falcons can get the job done with sheer accuracy.

 

[F86 Saber]

This is a rough sketch made by me to try and understand why artillery backed by the intelligence assets is enough to deal with JuAh, TTP, ISIS infrastructure in Afghanistan.

Location : Nurestan, Kunar, Nangarhar.
Disclaimer : The sketch only represents pivots. Axis of fire can vary.
Objective : To create a buffer zone, target camps, ammunition dumps, tunnels and hideouts used to wait for a point of entry into Pakistan to launch attacks.

Red = 155mm Howitzer max range estimate.
Blue = A-100 MBRL max range estimate (Not deployed but option is available)
122mm MBRL range would be identical to the Red.

View attachment 379389

@Horus isn't MLRS already being used?

 

[Shiji]

@Horus can you kindly tell me what max range you used for the 155 mm?

 

[Inception-06]

The Korean and Chinese 130 mm

Which Korean ?

 

[Inception-06]

@Horus can you kindly tell me what max range you used for the 155 mm?

@Signalian @Shiji can you both name that Gun here ?

 

[Shiji]

@Signalian @Shiji can you both name that Gun here ?

View attachment 379511

The British BL 5.5 Inch Gun

Which Korean ?

Originaly Soviet then North Korean M46, or the Chinese Type59.

 

[Safriz]

Pakistan should keep pounding anything that moves from Afghanistan towards Pakistan.