Pakistani army: No new offensive for 6-12 months

[illuminatus]

Menace to whom?

What kind of a questions are these? Initially a menace to the Russians. Now, a menace to the society. Basically a menace to everyone that disagrees with their ideas and beliefs.

 

[Solomon2]

Menace to whom?

What kind of a questions are these? Initially a menace to the Russians. Now, a menace to the society

Illuminating questions, Illuminatus. (I thought you'd appreciate that!) Pakistan is concerned about the threat to Pakistani society. America is concerned about the threat to the U.S. and (to a lesser extent) Afghanistan. Since Pakistan continues to make strategic exceptions for America's concerns, the the two war aims are not fully compatible and the two countries don't work well as allies.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Dear SOLOMON,
Understand this QUOTE:We should declare war on North Vietnam. . . .We could pave the whole country and put parking strips on it, and still be home by Christmas."
- Ronald Reagan, 1965
"We gained 22,000 square miles of territory. Just enough to bury our dead"
-Soviet General, 1940

 

[H2O3C4Nitrogen]

Since Pakistan continues to make strategic exceptions for America's concerns, the the two war aims are not fully compatible and the two countries don't work well as allies.

But those are partially compatible and both countries can work things out only if US deems it . Now every body maintains its stakes for its security ,Pakistan does it , Iran does it,India does it, KGB does it and that is specifically the reason you came all the way, thosands of miles away, from your country around the globe in to Afghanistan ...

 

[XYON]

Clearly, it would help to have someone bridge this cultural disconnection: Americans generally believe people are responsible for their actions and accountable to those whom they ask for support.

The belief here is that it is the Pakistani policy, pushed by self-interested PA and ISI officers, of encouraging terrorism against India and the Taliban in Afghanistan that is the root of Pakistan's troubles, and the reason why so many Pakistanis have died.

I think the U.S. is more concerned with Pakistan than Afghanistan. And Pakistan is not yet willing to give up on terrorism ("non-state actors", as Zardari calls them) as a tool.

In my judgment, you are indeed natives but you have not educated yourselves properly. 1) Thanks to helicopters, airplanes, and improved communications the PA can win against robber bands holed up in the mountains. 2) As I see it, if the GoP had listened to U.S. warnings the PA would never have had to fight a war this year.

I'll drop my "holier-than-thou" attitude when I'm proved wrong, not before - and then I'll change my mind. What about you, sir?

I just have the following comments to your post above.

a. All was fine until such time your President Clinton chose to shoot a few Tomahawks at mud hutties thinking of containing Osama. All was fin until Bush the Poop decided to send his grunts in Afghanistan whom today have not gotten hold of anything outside Kabul real estate. Afghans now believe that Afghanistan was much better under the Taliban rule then it is today under your grunts.

b. 'Tools' are used worldwide even by Uncle Sam to promote policy. Just ask South America, Venuezvela etc where your tools of the past are now defunct due to your governments bad policies. This 'Only do what I say and Not what I Do' US policy is now quite old and useless! So we will indeed use any 'tools' at our disposal to strengthen our regional policy even when your grunts have gone out of Afghanistan with their heads hanging in shame.

c. 'Education' does not mean having a degree from MIT or Harvard. It means how well knowledgeable are you about the lay of the land. And quite frankly Americans are dabbling in this area like an Eskimo in hell. So we are quite educated and learned, being natives about how things work in our back-yard. We cleared SWA and Swat in a few months while your grunts are still dragging their feet in Afghanistan. So it is essentially YOU who needs to educate himself of how to do when in Rome.

You have alerady been proven wrong on many occasions in this region which is the prime reason why the Americans elected Obama. But typically being a stuck-up, know-it-all attitutde that you have like rest of your countrymen, it will be sometime before the pain actually gets to your brain, just like it did in Vietnam but only much worse this time around!!

And our attitude is based on the longevity of our civilization in this area which spans over a thousand years, what about your 200 odd year old civilization is the US? I thought so!

 

[Solomon2]

But those are partially compatible and both countries can work things out only if US deems it.

Pakistan is not a potted plant and makes its own decisions. The decision it is making now is to keep the option of sheltering and supporting terrorists with the purpose of destabilizing its neighbors. That would be in the tradition of Pakistan supporting terror groups in Kashmir and Afghanistan. With U.S. support, that approach did work to kick the Soviets out of Afghanistan.

But what you are asking now, in essence, is for the U.S. to acquiesce to the re-establishment of an ISI-supported terror regime in Afghanistan, one that sheltered an Al Qaeda that killed 3000 Americans on 9-11. Whatever twists and turns this Administration makes, in the end it won't support that. The Obama Administration cannot be happy with the PA decision because this conflicts - probably rules out - defeating the Taliban in 2010 and compels U.S. troops to stay in Afghanistan for years to come.

So the old Pakistan terror model won't accomplish anything save delay, anguish, and death and is thus outdated. Why not concentrate on making your neighbors into friends rather than earning their enmity? You guys might save your own sanity as well - do you really want to end up like the Russians of the 1980s, who realized they were surrounded by hostile Communist nations of their own making? The Soviet state didn't last long after that.

 

[SSGPA1]

The Obama Administration cannot be happy with the PA decision because this conflicts - probably rules out - defeating the Taliban in 2010 and compels U.S. troops to stay in Afghanistan for years to come.

screw the Obama or anyother administration! We are making this decission based on our realities and strategies. We didn't ask anyone to come and rot in Afghanistan.

Countries made their own choices and Pakistan is making its choices in its own interest. Administration(s) should be used to it by now!

Obama couldn't win the Boston seat so any troops pull out is in danger anyways.

 

[Solomon2]

All was fine until such time your President Clinton chose to shoot a few Tomahawks at mud hutties thinking of containing Osama. All was fin until Bush the Poop decided to send his grunts in Afghanistan whom today have not gotten hold of anything outside Kabul real estate.

So all America had to do was acquiesce to its citizens being attacked by the Taliban! Or do you have a constructive comment to make?

'Tools' are used worldwide even by Uncle Sam to promote policy. Just ask South America, Venuezvela etc where your tools of the past are now defunct due to your governments bad policies -

The days of U.S.-supported dictators are over; for decades the U.S. has endorsed democracies, even if they occasionally have governments that are vocal against U.S. interests. imo that's a good thing, not bad policy.

we will indeed use any 'tools' at our disposal to strengthen our regional policy

It only strengthened Pakistan when U.S. support made up for the economic and political losses Pakistan sustained from the hostility of its neighbors. If Pakistan continues on its current course, then when the U.S. leaves the region (or even before) that will end. How do you think economic collapse and war will strengthen Pakistan?

We cleared SWA and Swat in a few months while your grunts are still dragging their feet in Afghanistan.

The P.A. cleared those regions not just by killing terrorists but by destroying the homes of their relatives, supporters, and anyone who harbored a Talib - pushing the fighters elsewhere and I imagine creating two or three terrorists for each one killed; all the terror masters need do is recruit and train (or just temporarily employ and shelter) replacements who have no where else to go.

You have alerady been proven wrong on many occasions in this region

Specify.

But typically being a stuck-up, know-it-all attitutde -

If you could actually evaluate my statements, pro- and con- I would re-evaluate my attitude. As I see it, I am engaged in analysis, while you are engaged in polemics.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Solomon my jewish israeli american friend i m curious to know what you SMOKE

 

[Solomon2]

screw the Obama or anyother administration! We are making this decission based on our realities and strategies...Countries made their own choices and Pakistan is making its choices in its own interest. Administration(s) should be used to it by now!

Do you think Pakistan will be happier if America acknowledges Pakistan's hostile stance and responds by reversing its alliances entirely to support India without question and arm the government of Afghanistan with whatever weapons and training it asks for?

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Do you think Pakistan will be happier if America acknowledges Pakistan's hostile stance and responds by reversing its alliances entirely to support India without question and arm the government of Afghanistan with whatever weapons and training it asks for?

Would you like if we boycott WAR ON TERROR start supporting taliban Join Iranian group and tell me a little nuclear know how?And start supporting Taliban?
this will be usa after we do that
We have captured 22000 miles just to bury ourselves.
-SOVIET GENERAL

 

[SSGPA1]

Do you think Pakistan will be happier if America acknowledges Pakistan's hostile stance and responds by reversing its alliances entirely to support India without question and arm the government of Afghanistan with whatever weapons and training it asks for?

Do you honestly think that US has the room to make that blunder? US is out of blunders and more blunders will send US to teh point of no return. Pakistanis hate the US admin and this will make Pakistan even more united.

Remember, China will not have a strong US proxy in Afghanistan who is able to help India in squeezing Pakistan.

Russia will not allow that either, they are still waiting (patiently) to give pay back to US in Afghanistan.

 

[SekrutYakhni]

Do you think Pakistan will be happier if America acknowledges Pakistan's hostile stance and responds by reversing its alliances entirely to support India without question and arm the government of Afghanistan with whatever weapons and training it asks for?

Are you insane?
The thing you said is easy to write. If it was this simple than the U.S. would have gone to India in the first place. There is a reason and a "very" strong reason for the U.S. to help Pakistan otherwise probably we would be living somewhere in a cave right now if the U.S. and India were allies all along the WOT.

Can you sit on a seat without the legs?
This is what the U.S. did.
There is no base which can support your seat and it will eventually fall...

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

and responds by reversing its alliances entirely to support India without question and arm the government of Afghanistan with whatever weapons and training it asks for?

If that is similar to the 'alliance and support' America is offering Pakistan currently for forming a 'strategic alliance' than it really is not much to worry about is it?

In the above comment lies the crux of the issue - America is not offering Pakistan much at all in terms of a strategic relationship, yet expects Pakistan to dance to its tune with no concern for the repercussions Pakistan would face.

I do not see America rushing to supply Pakistan with large amounts of transport and gunship helicopters to expand its area of operations. I do not see American rushing to offset the cost of more F-16's that would have the ability to carry out precision strikes day or night. I do not see America rushing to provide Pakistan with Predator drones so that it might utilize them for neutralizing insurgents in Pakistan. I do not see America willing to open its markets under a 'free and fair trade agreement'. I do not see America offering to assist Pakistan militarily or through sanctions in beating back an Indian invasion were a larger number of Pakistani troops to be moved away from the hostile Indian border.

Are the levels of support for India and Afghanistan going to be along the lines of 'lack of support' outlined above? In which case Pakistan really has nothing to worry about does it?

Or do you mean to say that America would choose NOT to build upon the existing relationship with Pakistan by offsetting the cost of the endeavors it desires Pakistan to undertake, and instead make an enemy of it and provide levels of support to Afghanistan and India that it refuses to provide Pakistan?

I fail to see what good America has done for Pakistan beyond shallow words. You have brought war and strife to our region and nation, and tried to offset tens of billions in economic losses and thousands of lives lost with a few billion in handouts (the majority of the aid being reimbursements for expenses agreed upon between the US and Pakistan).

And yet you wonder why there is dislike for America.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

So why does Pakistan have to behave this way? Why does it demand so much for itself yet offer little or nothing, not even goodwill, in return?

Goodwill? Last opinion polls in the US I checked placed Pakistan amongst the likes of North Korea and Iran, negative opinions fueled by the lying tripe published by the leading voices in your media fed by the ubiquitous 'anonymous government/intelligence' sources.

Where is the goodwill for Pakistan, for all of its sacrifices and losses, amongst Americans?

Your question, as Illuminatus did, is better posed to Americans.

Why does America have to behave this way? Why does it demand so much for itself yet offer little or nothing, not even goodwill, in return?