Pakistani Aircraft Engines, SAMs & AAMs

[Contrarian]

dude, read the context of the title of the thread.

 

[araz]

Hi,

As always has been the case, the absorption of millitary engineering technology between pakistan and india has been on a different pleateau and the reasoning behind it is their size and reasources.

Indian mindset is that of inventing the wheel ie start from the scratch, have grand planning----showcase biggest strongest fastest.

Why you don't need to start from scratch. Because it is stupid. The wheel has already been invented. Engines transmission differrentials have already been produced that can handle the need of any motorized army. So it will be totally stupid to manufacture your own powerplant in this day and age for these two nations. Same with defence related equipment upto a certain extent. Where the simplicity of the design ends and intricate construction and out of this world technology comes into force, countries like pakistan
maybe way behind in quite a few departments, but then we are not confronting the super 5's.

Case in point---so Korea. When the korean industrial revolution started, the koreran car giant hyundai collaborated with mitsubishi motors for the longest time to supply it with the power train for its cars. Now, did it stop so Korea from becoming a world economic and industrial power.

So, why does this question keeps arising again and again-----my question to you---the link starter-------where have you been in the last 30 years sir.

Dear Brother Mustan Khan
AsSalam oAlaikum.
I agree with most of your post. However the point that I have tried to make again and again, is the different stages where India and pakistan are. I differ with you in that india is trying to reinvent the wheel. As far as i know, this is a stage of development the threshold of which is being approached by both India and China.The stages of development are different for both countries. You can see China making strides with WS10(RD93) and WS13(AL31FN).However there are still some snags and help is being sought from the Russians if the press is to be believed. The burning question is why when Chinese money and Kudoos will grant them access to most Russian manufacturers. The answer has to be independance and the ability to improve and modify the commodity for your own personal gain. I think whether we like the way that India has approached this stage or not , may be open to debate but their quest in this direction is very understandable and should be appreciated. Success will come eventually and India will progress on. I am a Pakistani to the core and love my country like each and every one of you. However my viewpoint is to try and understand the logic of a certain step and gauge the reasons for it and this is what I have come up with.
WaSalam
Araz

 

[melb4aust]

Dear Brother Mustan Khan
AsSalam oAlaikum.
I agree with most of your post. However the point that I have tried to make again and again, is the different stages where India and pakistan are. I differ with you in that india is trying to reinvent the wheel. As far as i know, this is a stage of development the threshold of which is being approached by both India and China.The stages of development are different for both countries. You can see China making strides with WS10(RD93) and WS13(AL31FN).However there are still some snags and help is being sought from the Russians if the press is to be believed. The burning question is why when Chinese money and Kudoos will grant them access to most Russian manufacturers. The answer has to be independance and the ability to improve and modify the commodity for your own personal gain. I think whether we like the way that India has approached this stage or not , may be open to debate but their quest in this direction is very understandable and should be appreciated. Success will come eventually and India will progress on. I am a Pakistani to the core and love my country like each and every one of you. However my viewpoint is to try and understand the logic of a certain step and gauge the reasons for it and this is what I have come up with.
WaSalam
Araz

I am sorry....i have to interfere here........that post ot urzz was directed to Mastan Khan.....i apologise to interfere....
but Mastan Khan has too some logic in his comments, every one has his own thinking but if u look at from his perspective he's right as well. What i understan which he's trying to say is....that if india is having problems with the aircraft on what ever issue....why not solve it with some foreign help.......while keep on doing ur own research as well......and this is the way chinese are doing.....they are developing their own aircraft engines and indeed they also suffered a little delay......still bought 500 odd engines from russia........just to keep things moving.

Do u understand what i am trying to say here.......

 

[Contrarian]

Melby that is what India is doing as well. Some just chose not to see it.

Kaveri is being made for LCA, so while it has hit a technical snag, foreign consltancy has been roped in, and meanwhile a squadron of LCA's has been ordered by the IAF using GE F-404IN20 engines.

 

[araz]

I am sorry....i have to interfere here........that post ot urzz was directed to Mastan Khan.....i apologise to interfere....
but Mastan Khan has too some logic in his comments, every one has his own thinking but if u look at from his perspective he's right as well. What i understan which he's trying to say is....that if india is having problems with the aircraft on what ever issue....why not solve it with some foreign help.......while keep on doing ur own research as well......and this is the way chinese are doing.....they are developing their own aircraft engines and indeed they also suffered a little delay......still bought 500 odd engines from russia........just to keep things moving.

Do u understand what i am trying to say here.......

Mel.
I have not differed with Mastan,s post. All that I have tried to say is that the policies of India and China are similar towards self reliance. Where they have failed ,they have asked for foreign help.I feel that the Chinese may also have had failures, but because of the way News are released, they retain more control on what comes out in the press.I think it is important that this situation be analyzed further and your and other peoples comments would be appreciated.
Araz

 

[HAIDER]

kavari engine was tested in France. if am not wrong

 

[Neo]

kavari engine was tested in France. if am not wrong

Thats correct, atleast one example is in France with Snecma. They are trying to solve the technical problems.

 

[Contrarian]

Thats correct, atleast one example is in France with Snecma. They are trying to solve the technical problems.

Snecma was roped in as a consultant.

 

[Adux]

kavari engine was tested in France. if am not wrong

Russia, Snecma has been roped in now

 

[ishaqnoor17]

Can any body tell me what what is "SUPER 7A" . Is it advanced JF-17 ? or..................

 

[EagleEyes]

Can any body tell me what what is "SUPER 7A" . Is it advanced JF-17 ? or..................

Super 7A has nothing to do with the JF-17 now. Its only JF-17.

 

[kvLin]

Can any body tell me what what is "SUPER 7A" . Is it advanced JF-17 ? or..................

Project Super 7A was right before JF-17. PAF did make a wise decision.

If China had to take some indirect route in her military modernization, Pakistan doesn't.

 

[ahussains]

Snecma was roped in as a consultant.

it now clear that indians are taking all the assistance from every where for the LCA and they always claims in past that LCA is completly indian project .

 

[Contrarian]

Foreign collaboration has been taken where we have hit a technical roadblock. 70% of LCA is Indian and that my friend is a HUGE achievement.

 

[ali786]

JF-17 is what China had, they gave the blue prints, etc etc etc.

Seriously, are u telling me Pakistan can make a plane alone? They dont even have the infrastructure for it. Tell me what research has Pakistan done in material structure(composites)???

JF-17 does not even use composites, its a very basic plane with good avionics(as what Pakistan plans to put in it), and Pakistan did not even design the airframe. Its only going to be making something thats already made. Its different from developing something. Had Pakistan developed the Jf-17 i would have said its something to be proud of. But we have been doing it for a LONG LONG time.

mate, id hate to burst your bubble but the fc-1/jf-17 program was done 50/50 by pak and china.

i havent heard a single western anaslyst say that the plane is mostly chinese, the only thing is the production, from what i heard china will produce most of the jf-17 in china. then around 2-3 yrs later pak will start building the plane more and more in the PAC. overall the R&D for the plane was 50/50