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C(i) That the presence of troops should not afford any intimidation or appearance of intimidation to the
inhabitants of the State;

Pakistan will withdraw, but staying behind will the AJK regiment , the natives of that land.

AJK regiment is Native to Kashmir? Wow , are you sure.
 
AJK regiment is Native to Kashmir? Wow , are you sure.

My grandfather and entire elder generation (AKRF) was part of the force that started it, yes I'm sure. Aside a few from other regiments, it's drawn from the inhabitants of the land. You surely must be aware of the rich military service history of the region from Mirpur to Poonch? The Second World War saw 90,000 serve from the region alone in the British Indian Army.
 
Of course we won't decide, it will the United Nations supervising it, something you don't get. The appropriate number of forces will only be enough to support the local administration, which obviously shows your poor command of the english language i.e. it's not a big number at all. They will also be on the other side of the LOC not our land, as they will be in violation of this;

C(i) That the presence of troops should not afford any intimidation or appearance of intimidation to the
inhabitants of the State;


Pakistan will withdraw, but staying behind will the AJK regiment , the natives of that land.
Incorrect. Any force that has affiliations with Pakistan Army is not acceptable. Again, to you they might be, but as long as they are not acceptable to us, the point is moot.

"The word of a Pakistani", don't make me laugh. What the hell do you know sitting in mainland India, I'm from that soil, I can trace my roots back there at least 500 years. No one has settled there, only fantasist Indian nationalists believe that, even with overwhelming evidence stating otherwise. You can start with 'Kashmir: The Underwritten History' by C. Snedden, one of the most authentic accounts of the region, accepted by Indian academics as well. Lol@ "no one accepts that", you mean you don't.
The irony behind your outlandish claims is that in the very same breath you support the settlement of people outside Kashmir wholesale. How ridiculous!

The matter is not settled from our perspective nor China's either. You can sit at your PC typing till the cows coming home about your laws, and the right to settlement, we don't care for them, neither do the people of Kashmir, yes that includes the Dogras and Pandits as well who are now up in arms. What did you think they were going to welcome millions from UP, Bihar etc into their lands? Not that they are coming anyway!

How about you try protecting the ones who are already there e.g. BJP workers, before acting high and mighty in here.

Najar is the third BJP worker targeted by militants within the past one week and second to be killed. Earlier, a BJP leader was killed in Qazigund and another injured in south Kashmir's Kulgam district.


You can trace your roots back to Africa for all I or anyone cares. After removal of A370, any Indian can go and settle there and be recognized as a subject of the state. As of this day, over 25,000 people have been granted domicile in J&K.


I know your lot's modus operandi. India will crackdown on the terrorists and meanwhile the people who want J&K domiciles are getting it.

Hilariously you accuse us of terror (supporting Kashmiris) when it's you lot slaughtering them. Also you have a little rape supporting, child killing , elderly mauling savage in power. Your uneducated Pope of the Sanghis is a filthy rat and a coward to boot.
You can try " combating Islamist terror" from Pakistan, we knocked your teeth out last year in Feb when you hopelessly tried, and I won't even get into what the Chinese have done to you..... Two military defeats in less than year!
Your combat record is impressive.
The only ones who get killed are terrorists and their supporters.

I'd argue that in any actual war, your record impresses more. Far from 'knocking your teeth', in the actual last war you fought, the only valuable piece of land your military captured was - your PM's residence. You ended up losing up your own Prime Minister to a coup. The one before that you ended up losing half your country.

By the way, if you come up with your lame insults against Pakistanis, as seen in the latter of your post, I'll boot you out of here. Don't think you have the automatic right to say anything you want here, I know the cyber world is precious to you lot, as it's the only place you really can say anything.
Again, its the opposite. The only place you can really say anything is the internet. As record shows, the last time your FM spoke in real life about Kashmir, your Military is still trying to do damage control in Saudi Arabia. These little bits of the internet are the only place you have any effective power.
 
Incorrect. Any force that has affiliations with Pakistan Army is not acceptable. Again, to you they might be, but as long as they are not acceptable to us, the point is moot.

Nor are you troops acceptable to the UN in our territory, no need to say more.



You can trace your roots back to Africa for all I or anyone cares. After removal of A370, any Indian can go and settle there and be recognized as a subject of the state. As of this day, over 25,000 people have been granted domicile in J&K.


It's not Africa, it's Kashmir. 25,000 people you say, most were already there e.g. retired military etc. You can try to settle more, right after you can save the lives of the ones who already work for you.


I know your lot's modus operandi. India will crackdown on the terrorists and meanwhile the people who want J&K domiciles are getting it.

We don't care if you know it or not, as long as you continue to bleed it's good.



The only ones who get killed are terrorists and their supporters.

Nope you kill women and kids, about the only people you can.



I'd argue that in any actual war, your record impresses more. Far from 'knocking your teeth', in the actual last war you fought, the only valuable piece of land your military captured was - your PM's residence. You ended up losing up your own Prime Minister to a coup. The one before that you ended up losing half your country.

Oh you have to go back to the 1970's, poor, just poor. But then that's a word you are quite familiar with right, especially after your two recent military defeats. No need to go back 50 years chap, just last year and a few months back.


Again, its the opposite. The only place you can really say anything is the internet. As record shows, the last time your FM spoke in real life about Kashmir, your Military is still trying to do damage control in Saudi Arabia. These little bits of the internet are the only place you have any effective power.

Stop trying to copy my words. What's Saudi got to do with it? But regarding that matter, they were invited first, you obviously have no idea.
"These little bits of the internet", the one you so desperately try to make your voice heard, again you don't understand the irony here. Dude we can do what we want in real life, you can't.
 
Incorrect. Any force that has affiliations with Pakistan Army is not acceptable. Again, to you they might be, but as long as they are not acceptable to us, the point is moot.


You can trace your roots back to Africa for all I or anyone cares. After removal of A370, any Indian can go and settle there and be recognized as a subject of the state. As of this day, over 25,000 people have been granted domicile in J&K.


I know your lot's modus operandi. India will crackdown on the terrorists and meanwhile the people who want J&K domiciles are getting it.


The only ones who get killed are terrorists and their supporters.

I'd argue that in any actual war, your record impresses more. Far from 'knocking your teeth', in the actual last war you fought, the only valuable piece of land your military captured was - your PM's residence. You ended up losing up your own Prime Minister to a coup. The one before that you ended up losing half your country.


Again, its the opposite. The only place you can really say anything is the internet. As record shows, the last time your FM spoke in real life about Kashmir, your Military is still trying to do damage control in Saudi Arabia. These little bits of the internet are the only place you have any effective power.
You are an odd little fellow, constantly picking fights in your little online fantasy bubble. Here's the thing, not only will J&K be liberated as per the original UN resolutions, Jammu state will see its original pre-pogrom demographic balance restored. Whatever the Dogra filth did shall be undone. No Pakistani or Kashmiri will allow otherwise. The more India pushes to continue the work of Hari Singh, the more non-Pakistanis and non-Kashmiris will even join with us against you. Chinese, Turks, Iranians and many others see through your fraud of a nation with its circus of a military. Whatever false credentials India relied on under Congress governments lie fully exposed as sheer fantasy under Modi and his goons. It's all going to unravel pretty fast when the day comes.
 
My grandfather and entire elder generation (AKRF) was part of the force that started it, yes I'm sure. Aside a few from other regiments, it's drawn from the inhabitants of the land. You surely must be aware of the rich military service history of the region from Mirpur to Poonch? The Second World War saw 90,000 serve from the region alone in the British Indian Army.
Few Famous leaders that AKRF/AKR produced do not seem as inhabitants from the land, how do you explain these?

1. General Abdul Waheed Kakar EX COAS - (27 AKR ) born into a Pashtun family of the Kakar tribe in the suburbs of Peshawar, North-West Frontier Province/ originally hails from Zhob, Baluchistan

2. Lieutenant-General Ishfaq Nadeem Ahmad ( 34 AKR) Surprisingly from Neela, Chakwal

3. Lieutenant General Zia Ullah Khan (?? AKR) again from Jandiala Sherkhan, Sheikhupura

4. Lt Col Haq Nawaz Kayani (9th AKRF-bat ) from Mona Pind, District Jhelum

AJK Regiment Staying behind, based on the idea, it has Kashmir in its name, cause clearly it draws soldiers and officers from all over pakistan, would mean by applying the same logic, Indian side would have to position; Jammu and Kashmir Light Infantry; Jammu & Kashmir Rifles, Ladakh Scouts, at the min, (Also fyi Jak Rif is 21 infantry bats, along with two Mech Bats)

Now is the idea is based on AJK Regiment being based out of AJK, then with that rationale you have to contend with the entire XV Corp.

I am quite amazed at the UNSC resolutions still being touted here. Given you seem to be the resident expert on the UNSC resolutions, Please do educate me a bit, were the Pre-requisites sequential by any chance, And sure you can withdraw whatever you chose as to being a material change in Pakistan's controlled portion of Erstwhile Kingdom of Jammu and Kashmir, I think I remember Indian actions are preceded by something termed as Cessation of Hostilities; Given that Sovereign state of Pakistan - has Officially Sent Its Troops into the "erstwhile state of Jammu and Kashmir" conducting the behaviour exactly opposite to that of the pre-requisites of the UNSC resolutions in its brilliant 1965 Offensive in the same theatre they were supposed to withdraw; is there any validity left in Pre-requisites altogether might be a larger question.

On a sidenote - There was Verbatim- UNSC Resolution Thread on the forum at the following link on this forum that seems to have disappeared. Quite surprising.
https://defence.pk/threads/kashmir-plebiscite-and-un-security-council-resolution.215581/
 
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You are an odd little fellow, constantly picking fights in your little online fantasy bubble. Here's the thing, not only will J&K be liberated as per the original UN resolutions, Jammu state will see its original pre-pogrom demographic balance restored. Whatever the Dogra filth did shall be undone. No Pakistani or Kashmiri will allow otherwise. The more India pushes to continue the work of Hari Singh, the more non-Pakistanis and non-Kashmiris will even join with us against you. Chinese, Turks, Iranians and many others see through your fraud of a nation with its circus of a military. Whatever false credentials India relied on under Congress governments lie fully exposed as sheer fantasy under Modi and his goons. It's all going to unravel pretty fast when the day comes.


Not only in JK but also in Punjab, Indian regime used pogroms to change demographics and steal land.

Their basic rhetoric is that India can do what ever it wants (always justified) and Pakistan must follow their reading of UNSC resolutions (look at the post abovd mine.)

You can see that our enemy lacks honor and basic humanity. 73 years of holding JK by force, and they haven't been able to convince Kashmiris.

War is the only solution left. A war in which both China and Pakistan are part.
 
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You don't decide what the 'token' number is. Government of India and Govt. of India alone decides what the appropriate number of forces in J&K will be. Pakistan has to do a complete withdrawal of forces. Secondly, the word of a Pakistani is not worth the paper it is written on. So when you say that no one has been settled in the territory, no one accepts that.
If I had a dollar for time I caught a sanghi propogating lies I might have had a luxury resort on far side of galaxy.
Screenshot_20200824_114516.jpg

Read UNSC Resolution 80

@waz why do we indulge semi literate trolls from across the border? These hateful trolls don't deserve our time or attention. None of them is worthy of any contact with civilization, let them dwell in their gangetic hellholes or in those incel hubs they have created for themselves in obscure corners of Internet.
 
The poor actor commited sucide due to depression from Indian film/media industry boycotting him


Now the same industry making money from his death :(
 
Few Famous leaders that AKRF/AKR produced do not seem as inhabitants from the land, how do you explain these?

1. General Abdul Waheed Kakar EX COAS - (27 AKR ) born into a Pashtun family of the Kakar tribe in the suburbs of Peshawar, North-West Frontier Province/ originally hails from Zhob, Baluchistan

2. Lieutenant-General Ishfaq Nadeem Ahmad ( 34 AKR) Surprisingly from Neela, Chakwal

3. Lieutenant General Zia Ullah Khan (?? AKR) again from Jandiala Sherkhan, Sheikhupura

4. Lt Col Haq Nawaz Kayani (9th AKRF-bat ) from Mona Pind, District Jhelum

They were explained in my previous post, here just for reference;

Aside a few from other regiments

The men above were indeed from other areas, I see you found that on Wiki. I'll use Wiki in part for this as well then.

Now, the formation and conception of the AKRF was the work of Azad Kashmiris, take a look;

One of the founding fathers;

Major Gen Mohammad Anwar Khan
Major Gen Mohammad Anwar Khan belongs to the powerful Sudhan tribe and is a resident of Tain village in district Poonch, he was born there and led from the front.



One of the great shaheeds of that war;

Naik Saif Ali Janjua (Urdu: سیف علی جنجوعہ; c. 25 April 1922 – 26 April 1948), Pakistan Army Azad Kashmir Regiment, was a platoon commander during the Indo-Pakistani War of 1947. He received the Hilal-e-Kashmir from the government of Azad Kashmir, which is equal to Nishan-e-Haider, the highest military award given by Pakistan, and now declared as Nishan-e-Haider. He fought in the Kashmir sector during the 1948 War and was killed during the siege of Bhudha Khanna.

He was born to Janjua Rajput family[1] on 25 April 1922 in Khandhaar Tehsil Fateh pur thakyala (Azad Jammu and Kashmir).


You might come up with the whole "oh but the composition has changed over the years". No it hasn't.



General Muhammad Aziz Khan (Urdu: محمّد عزیز خان‎ 1 January 1947) NI(m), HI(m), TBt, best known as Aziz Khan, is a retired four-star rank army general in the Pakistan Army who served as Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Committee, appointed on October 2001 until his retirement in 2005.[1] He belonged to an elite Sudhan family.[2]

Muhammad Aziz Khan was born in Pallandri, Sudhanoti, Jammu and Kashmir in British India (Azad Kashmir, Pakistan) on 1 January 1947

In 1990, Brigadier Aziz was posted as the Chief of Staff of the X Corps which was under Lt-Gen. G.M. Malik before being stationed in Siachen to command the Northern Light Infantry (NLI).[9] In 1991–94, Brig. Aziz eventually moved to command the 80th Brigade attached to the Northern Command stationed in the Azad Kashmir


Let's look at just recently as well (2017 to now).

The installation ceremony of Colonel Commandant Azad Kashmir (AK) Regiment was held at Mansar Camp on Wednesday with Army chief General Qamar Jawed Bajwa as the chief guest.

General Bajwa and outgoing colonel of the regiment, Lt Gen Ashfaq Nadeem Ahmad, pinned the badges of the rank on Lieutenant General Hidayatur Rehman.


He is from Gilgit and Balistan....

There was a thread about him on PDF;



By the way I took it upon myself to find out the present make up of the regiment from actual serving officers, some of whom are on this forum, as the last serviceman in my family left a few years back. They confirmed it i.e. that it is the case the bulk of the men come from AJK.
I'm surprised you actually questioned this and tried to imply the regiment isn't native, which further feeds into the ridiculous narrative that the people of AJK are artificially settled in Kashmir i.e. they are from Punjab, and part of a devious conspiracy to alter the demographics of the land.


AJK Regiment Staying behind, based on the idea, it has Kashmir in its name, cause clearly it draws soldiers and officers from all over pakistan, would mean by applying the same logic, Indian side would have to position; Jammu and Kashmir Light Infantry; Jammu & Kashmir Rifles, Ladakh Scouts, at the min, (Also fyi Jak Rif is 21 infantry bats, along with two Mech Bats)

Now is the idea is based on AJK Regiment being based out of AJK, then with that rationale you have to contend with the entire XV Corp.

It's not only about having Kashmir in it's name, it has it in it's make-up (see above).
The Ladakh Scouts (ethnic groups in Ladakh) and JKLI (Jammu young men) all recruit from the local area , of course they will stay i.e. they will be in civi clothes. What would you tell them to do in the even of a referendum, ok guys take off your uniforms and go stand in the highways of Punjab.
Like wise with the AJK regiment, wouldn't it make sense for the men of that native land to return for a vote on their future? Or do you propose they wait in Rawalpindi?



I am quite amazed at the UNSC resolutions still being touted here. Given you seem to be the resident expert on the UNSC resolutions, Please do educate me a bit, were the Pre-requisites sequential by any chance, And sure you can withdraw whatever you chose as to being a material change in Pakistan's controlled portion of Erstwhile Kingdom of Jammu and Kashmir, I think I remember Indian actions are preceded by something termed as Cessation of Hostilities; Given that Sovereign state of Pakistan - has Officially Sent Its Troops into the "erstwhile state of Jammu and Kashmir" conducting the behaviour exactly opposite to that of the pre-requisites of the UNSC resolutions in its brilliant 1965 Offensive in the same theatre they were supposed to withdraw; is there any validity left in Pre-requisites altogether might be a larger question.

On a sidenote - There was Verbatim- UNSC Resolution Thread on the forum at the following link on this forum that seems to have disappeared. Quite surprising.
https://defence.pk/threads/kashmir-plebiscite-and-un-security-council-resolution.215581/

"Resident expert", I'm no such thing, unlike your good self who seems to know more about Azad Kashmir than someone who hails from the region, and everyone else who has deep connections there.
The pre-requisites are simultaneous i.e. withdrawal of forces, @Reichsmarschall has already put up the required reading. The only difference being Pakistan wouldn't have uniformed men there, India would to support the administration, as in a small force.
But Indian forces will have to concede to local forces recruited for the task, and if that is not the case forces from Pakistan and India can play a role, thereafter a referendum is held.
Yes I remember the thread, although I find it odd you just bolded the part regarding Pakistan.


For reference, what is required from India.



2. The Government of India should:
(a) When it is established to the satisfaction of the Commission set up in accordance with the Council's
resolution 39 (1948) that the tribesmen are withdrawing and that arrangements for the cessation of the
fighting have become effective, put into operation in consultation with the Commission a plan for withdrawing
their own forces from Jammu and Kashmir and reducing them progressively to the minimum strength required for
the support of the civil power in the maintenance of law and order;
(b) Make known that the withdrawal is taking place in stages and announce the completion of each stage;
(c) When the Indian forces have been reduced to the minimum strength mentioned in (a) above, arrange in
consultation with the Commission for the stationing of the remaining forces to be carried out in accordance
with the following principles:
(i) That the presence of troops should not afford any intimidation or appearance of intimidation to the
inhabitants of the State;
(ii) That as small a number as possible should be retained in forward areas;
(iii) That any reserve of troops which may be included in the total strength should be located within their
present base area.
3. The Government of India should agree that until such time as the Plebiscite Administration referred to
below finds it necessary to exercise the powers of direction and supervision over the State forces and police
provided for in paragraph 8, they will be held in areas to be agreed upon with the Plebiscite Administrator.
4. After the plan referred to in paragraph 2 (a) above has been put into operation, personnel recruited locally
in each district should so far as possible be utilized for the re-establishment and maintenance of law and
order with due regard to protection of minorities, subject to such additional requirements as may be specified
by the Plebiscite Administration referred to in paragraph 7.
5. If these local forces should be found to be inadequate, the Commission, subject to the agreement of both
the Government of India and the Government of Pakistan, should arrange for the use of such forces of either
Dominion as it deems effective for the purpose of pacification.
B. Plebiscite
6. The Government of India should undertake to ensure that the Government of the State invite the major
political groups to designate responsible representatives to share equitably and fully in the conduct of the
administration at the ministerial level while the plebiscite is being prepared and carried out.
7. The Government of India should undertake that there will be established in Jammu and Kashmir a Plebiscite
Administration to hold a plebiscite as soon as possible on the question of the accession of the State to India
or Pakistan.
8. The Government of India should undertake that there will be delegated by the State to the Plebiscite
Administration such powers as the latter considers necessary for holding a fair and impartial plebiscite
including, for that purpose only, the direction and supervision of the State forces and police.
9. The Government of India should, at the request of the Plebiscite Administration, make available from the
Indian forces such assistance as the Plebiscite Administration may require for the performance of its functions.
10. (a) The Government of India should agree that a nominee of the Secretary-General of the United Nations will
be appointed to be the Plebiscite Administrator.
(b) The Plebiscite Administrator, acting as an officer of the State of Jammu and Kashmir, should have
authority to nominate his assistants and other subordinates and to draft regulations governing the plebiscite.
Such nominees should be formally appointed and such draft regulations should be formally promulgated by the
State of Jammu and Kashmir.
(c) The Government of India should undertake that the Government of Jammu and Kashmir will appoint fully
qualified persons nominated by the Plebiscite Administrator to act as special magistrates within the State
judicial system to hear cases which in the opinion of the Plebiscite Administrator have a serious bearing on
the preparation for and the conduct of a free and impartial plebiscite.
(d) The terms of service of the Administrator should form the subject of a separate negotiation between the
Secretary-General of the United Nations and the Government of India. The Administrator should fix the terms
of service for his assistants and subordinates.
(e) The Administrator should have the right to communicate directly with the Government of the State and with
the Commission of the Security Council and, through the Commission, with the Security Council, with the
Governments of India and Pakistan and with their representatives with the Commission. It would be his duty
to bring to the notice of any or
all of the foregoing (as he in his discretion may decide) any circumstances arising which may tend, in his
opinion, to interfere with the freedom of the plebiscite.
11. The Government of India should undertake to prevent, and to give full support to the Administrator and
his staff in preventing, any threat, coercion or intimidation, bribery or other undue influence on the voters
in the plebiscite, and the Government of India should publicly announce and should cause the Government of
the State to announce this undertaking as an international obligation binding on all public authorities and
officials in Jammu and Kashmir.
12. The Government of India should themselves and through the Government of the State declare and make known
that all subjects of the State of Jammu and Kashmir, regardless of creed, caste or party, will be safe and
free in expressing their views and in voting on the question of the accession of the State and that there
will be freedom of the press, speech and assembly and freedom of travel in the State, including freedom of
lawful entry and exit.
13. The Government of India should use and should ensure that the Government of the State also use their
best endeavours to effect the withdrawal from the State of all Indian nationals other than those who are
normally resident therein or who on or since 15 August 1947 have entered it for a lawful purpose.
14. The Government of India should ensure that the Government of the State releases all political prisoners
and take all possible steps so that:
(a) All citizens of the State who have left it on account of disturbances are invited, and are free, to
return to their homes and to exercise their rights as such citizens;
(b) There is no victimization;
(c) Minorities in all parts of the State are accorded adequate protection.
15. The Commission of the Security Council should at the end of the plebiscite certify to the Council whether
the plebiscite has or has not been really free and impartial.
C. General provisions
16. The Governments of India and Pakistan should each be invited to nominate a representative to be attached
to the Commission for such assistance as it may require in the performance of its task.
17. The Commission should establish in Jammu and Kashmir such observers as it may require of any of the
proceedings in pursuance of the measures indicated in the foregoing paragraphs.
18. The Security Council Commission should carry out the tasks assigned to it here
 
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