Pakistan will soon get J10

[alimobin memon]

i have read these details a number of time but really am kind of confused on some points, the JFT is said to have ferry range of 3482 Km and a maximum extended range with external tanks at 3000Km, how is this possible? am i confusing the ferry range and Extended range? i mean, how can normal ferry range be greater then range with external tanks?

i also don't understand how can we we say that based on these JFT is superior to Grippen. they are on par at best. for example,
Grippen have better payload, JFT have more range, Grippen have more speed and better T/W ratio and JFT can gain more height. in radar, Grippen have more up-look range and JFT have better down-look range. both carry almost similarly capable weapons and Grippen can carry one more then JFT.

PLEASE, this is not a remark but a question and will appreciate is someone can tell me how we can say the JFT is proved better.

for me, both of these are on par as for now but the new block might well see improvements in JFT.

and yes, we can not forget the Grippen-NG EW suite! need to develop something comparable as well and not much is know about JFT EW capabilities.

regards!

Jf17 T/w ratio is greater than 1 , the t/W ratio found in internet is incorrect . EW capability has proven that Jf17 can jam F16 BLK 15 of pakistan , Combat radius is greater than f16 which is good that means we can attack any target far than the f16's mission range.
Fact is that China , Pakistan currency is not very high that's why our product cost are cheaper, Jf17 if was built by any west could not have been less than 40mn$ , you see russia Even SU35BM i think that is the only fighter better than typhoon and rafale or living legend to fight against F22 and F35 whil'st Even F15 SE is more than 90mn $ . Not to drag just to tell you PAF friend he is engineer told me that you just wait and watch, there are somethings that on internet people project we will have are already in Pakistan.

 

[T-Rex]

Not to drag just to tell you PAF friend he is engineer told me that you just wait and watch, there are somethings that on internet people project we will have are already in Pakistan.

Would you please explain what that means. Does it mean that PAF has something that we don't expect it to have?

 

[IceCold]

i have read these details a number of time but really am kind of confused on some points, the JFT is said to have ferry range of 3482 Km and a maximum extended range with external tanks at 3000Km, how is this possible? am i confusing the ferry range and Extended range? i mean, how can normal ferry range be greater then range with external tanks?

i also don't understand how can we we say that based on these JFT is superior to Grippen. they are on par at best. for example,
Grippen have better payload, JFT have more range, Grippen have more speed and better T/W ratio and JFT can gain more height. in radar, Grippen have more up-look range and JFT have better down-look range. both carry almost similarly capable weapons and Grippen can carry one more then JFT.

PLEASE, this is not a remark but a question and will appreciate is someone can tell me how we can say the JFT is proved better.

for me, both of these are on par as for now but the new block might well see improvements in JFT.

and yes, we can not forget the Grippen-NG EW suite! need to develop something comparable as well and not much is know about JFT EW capabilities.

regards!

I am not the correct person to answer this, perhaps you should direct it towards antibody. I based my argument solely on his post mentioned above in which he has made a comparison. The reason was that Indians here try to make us believe that Gripen is a class or should i say world apart from the JF-17 in terms of capability, yet when we see an actual comparison being made, both fighters match equally.
There is no information regarding the specs on the EW suite JF-17 is using so cannot make a comparison with the Gripen NG but based on how fast the Chinese are making progress interms of hardware and software, its not that hard to make a speculation about the capabilities of the EW suite the JF-17 would be using.

 

[rohailmalhi]

Jf17 T/w ratio is greater than 1 , the t/W ratio found in internet is incorrect . EW capability has proven that Jf17 can jam F16 BLK 15 of pakistan , Combat radius is greater than f16 which is good that means we can attack any target far than the f16's mission range.
Fact is that China , Pakistan currency is not very high that's why our product cost are cheaper, Jf17 if was built by any west could not have been less than 40mn$ , you see russia Even SU35BM i think that is the only fighter better than typhoon and rafale or living legend to fight against F22 and F35 whil'st Even F15 SE is more than 90mn $ . Not to drag just to tell you PAF friend he is engineer told me that you just wait and watch, there are somethings that on internet people project we will have are already in Pakistan.

Kindly donot disclose anything on internet...........

 

[IceCold]

Would you please explain what that means. Does it mean that PAF has something that we don't expect it to have?

While i cannot comment on his post and on what basis have he made that comment but Isn't it always the case not just with PAF but the whole Pakistan army. Things we or the world does not expect us to have, we suddenly have. for e.g when Babur was test fired.

 

[T-Rex]

While i cannot comment on his post and on what basis have he made that comment but Isn't it always the case not just with PAF but the whole Pakistan army. Things we or the world does not expect us to have, we suddenly have. for e.g when Babur was test fired.

At this stage, only one thing will surprise me and that is stealth capability. I think Pakistan has a long way to go before it can master stealth technology. Pakistan has not yet even begun to develop its own jet engine, let alone stealth technology.

 

[TaimiKhan]

At this stage, only one thing will surprise me and that is stealth capability. I think Pakistan has a long way to go before it can master stealth technology. Pakistan has not yet even begun to develop its own jet engine, let alone stealth technology.

Jet engine has nothing to do with a country having experience in stealth.

Stealthiness of an aircraft can be achieved through different means, and Pakistan has some experience in some of these techniques, but yeah designing an aircraft based on the stealth platforms or like stealth platforms F-117, B-2 etc is something which we lack.

But with the passage of time with collaboration of Chinese, we can train our engineers who are able to do their work in designing stealth aerial platforms.

 

[fatman17]

While i cannot comment on his post and on what basis have he made that comment but Isn't it always the case not just with PAF but the whole Pakistan army. Things we or the world does not expect us to have, we suddenly have. for e.g when Babur was test fired.

every country has their "Skunk Works" departments where experiments can sometimes yield un-expected results!

 

[alimobin memon]

Nothing to disclose ... Indeed I am sorry. But something is Fishi Fishi

 

[alimobin memon]

Jet engine has nothing to do with a country having experience in stealth.

Stealthiness of an aircraft can be achieved through different means, and Pakistan has some experience in some of these techniques, but yeah designing an aircraft based on the stealth platforms or like stealth platforms F-117, B-2 etc is something which we lack.

But with the passage of time with collaboration of Chinese, we can train our engineers who are able to do their work in designing stealth aerial platforms.

1 thing to quote , we know better than chinese. Problem is lack of funds.

 

[Donatello]

every country has their "Skunk Works" departments where experiments can sometimes yield un-expected results!

Yes, but expecting too much out of it, would be foolish.

Obviously, every nation safeguards it's interests and defense is one of them.....

 

[sancho]

while if you visit Gripens official website then you will find that
External load carrying capacity of Gripen C/D = 14100 - 6800 - 2000 = 5300 Kg

Because Saab tends to fake their specs sometimes, by decreasing the internal fuel to increase payload. Earlier specs of the C/D showed around 2300Kg internal fuel and 5000Kg payload, while the current just say >2000Kg fuel and 5300Kg payload. They did the same with Gripen NG specs as well and changed the original 6000Kg payload to 7000+ Kg, while not mentioning the in correct internal fuel anymore. Lets call it manufacturers PR!

Based on the facts above, JF-17 is actually superior to JAS Gripen apart from the payload capacity. There isnt much difference in radar range in up look detection and down look detection is actually better.
And this is block 1 that we are comparing with the C/D Gripen, block 2 will actually surpass it in all aspects.

That are only some specs on paper, but think about all things and operational service and you will find a lot of differences:

Gripen C (although this is the wrong version to compare JF17 B1 to)...

...has a lower RCS, thanks to a designed that integrated composites, RAM coatings and even radar blockers for this development goal
...is more maneuverable, thanks to a better dry TWR, lower wingloading, the delta canard design, G limits
...carries more payload (Gripen A doesn't)
...has a dedicated pod station
...the more capable weapons (Iris-T, Aim 120 / Meteor which will be integrated now, US LGBs, PGMs and CAS missiles and for Sweden carries even 2 x Taurus cruise missiles)
...offers mid air refuelling (Gripen A doesn't)
...good EW systems and avionics
...has dedicated recon pods integrated


So the the Gripen C offers a lot of advantages to the early JF17 that the specs on paper might not show at first sight. However, both will serve their roles pretty well and it will be interesting to see what chages JF 17 B3 will have and how close it can be to Gripen E/F.


We might go back to topic (J10B) again right?

 

[Arsalan]

Jf17 T/w ratio is greater than 1 , the t/W ratio found in internet is incorrect . EW capability has proven that Jf17 can jam F16 BLK 15 of pakistan , Combat radius is greater than f16 which is good that means we can attack any target far than the f16's mission range.
Fact is that China , Pakistan currency is not very high that's why our product cost are cheaper, Jf17 if was built by any west could not have been less than 40mn$ , you see russia Even SU35BM i think that is the only fighter better than typhoon and rafale or living legend to fight against F22 and F35 whil'st Even F15 SE is more than 90mn $ . Not to drag just to tell you PAF friend he is engineer told me that you just wait and watch, there are somethings that on internet people project we will have are already in Pakistan.

I am not the correct person to answer this, perhaps you should direct it towards antibody. I based my argument solely on his post mentioned above in which he has made a comparison. The reason was that Indians here try to make us believe that Gripen is a class or should i say world apart from the JF-17 in terms of capability, yet when we see an actual comparison being made, both fighters match equally.

Thanks dear,
the question was definitely not a directed one, it was open request and anybody can help me with it.. that that you did aswell


that was the point, we are correct to say that JFT is evenly matched to Gripen C/D and EW is something we might never actually get complete details of..

 

[Manticore]

http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakist...akistan-will-soon-get-j10-24.html#post3079785
please read my post again -- you can take the discussion to the grippen arguments thread if you like

 

[T-Rex]

Jet engine has nothing to do with a country having experience in stealth.

Stealthiness of an aircraft can be achieved through different means, and Pakistan has some experience in some of these techniques, but yeah designing an aircraft based on the stealth platforms or like stealth platforms F-117, B-2 etc is something which we lack.

But with the passage of time with collaboration of Chinese, we can train our engineers who are able to do their work in designing stealth aerial platforms.

I know that PAF has its eye on stealth capability but I think acquiring the technology to build its own jet engine is more important than acquiring stealth capability. So, Pakistan should invest in building indigenous jet engines instead of investing scarce resources to acquire stealth capability. If Pakistan can build its own jet engines it doesn't have to depend on others to build fighter planes, in other words, Pakistan will be 100% self-sufficient in this area. After that Pakistan can focus on stealth with a cool head.