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Pakistan will reportedly commence formal negotiations for the T129 ATAK

Gryphon

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TAI’s T129 test aircraft, P6 is on show at Paris and was the example tested in Himalayas. (Photo: Alan Warnes)

A high-level delegation from the Pakistan Army, led by the Army Chief of Staff, was expected to visit Ankara during Paris Air Show 2017. It led to the Turkish Aerospace Industries (TAI) leadership, including TAI Chairman and CEO, Temel Kotil, returning home. TAI’s new boss visited Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC) Kamra in late May to see the facilities there, and was suitably impressed. He told MONS in Paris: “I was very impressed with their capabilities and I’m sure we can do much work together in the future.”

Pakistan’s interest in TAI’s T129 ATAK Tactical Reconnaissance and Attack Helicopter continues to grow following the completion of the technical evaluation. As part of that procedure, TAI’s T129, P6, which is in the static display at the airshow spent 10 days undergoing hot and high evaluation trials in Pakistan during late May 2015. It saw the ATAK operating in temperatures of 52° C and was flown by a Pakistani Army Aviation pilot alongside a TAI test pilot. During the trials in the Hindu Kush in the Himalaya mountains, the T129 ATAK flew over 14,000ft. A source said, “the helicopter is the best fit for all the Pakistan Army’s requirements.”

Contract discussions are believed to be now underway for 30 T129s, with a deal expected to be announced in late 2017 or early 2018. If it happens you can expect it to be big news at next year’s Farnborough International Air Show, the source continued, adding, “we could make deliveries in a very short time period.”

The Pakistan Army currently flies a mix of AH-1F/S COBRAs based at Multan, that forward deploy to several forward operating bases/forward operating locations. They have been heavily involved in Pakistan’s war with militants in the Federally Administered Tribal Area (FATA) and have been known to fly up to 15,000 feet.

That’s well above their maximum height restrictions, but due to the threat of SAMs in the high mountainous area, it’s a must. One Army pilot MONS spoke to two years ago said the helicopter ‘creaks and makes strange noises’ at that height, but what option do we have?’

Soon they may several options, because in addition to the T129 ATAK, the Pakistan Army has also ordered 12 Bell AH-1Z VIPERs. Bell Helicopter revealed at Paris Air Show that the first three helicopters ordered in 2015 under a FMS deal are expected to be delivered by the end of the year. A Bell spokesman at Paris told the author that the first is due to fly imminently, and training of Pakistan Army crews and maintenance personnel is underway.

They will join four Mi-35Ps believed to be on order and three Chinese built Z-10s which have been based at Multan since 2015, although there has been strong speculation that the latter are not currently flying. The fear of sanctions, means that Pakistan often spreads its bet by acquiring platforms from different nations, however much of a logistical headache that maybe!

Alan Warnes

Published: 22 June 2017

PAKISTAN ON VERGE OF ORDERING TAI T129 ATAK | monch.com
 
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Turkish Aerospace Industries T129 Hunts for Export Orders


Turkey’s T129 ATAK attack helicopter is on the prowl for export orders.

Turkish Aerospace Industries has delivered 22 aircraft to the Turkish Army, and the type is being used operationally in the southeast of the country against Kurdistan Workers’ Party (PKK) militants.

But the company is now looking to capture the first export orders for the T800-engined aircraft, which was developed from Leonardo’s AW129 Mangusta.

TAI has a campaign underway in Poland, where Warsaw is looking for a fleet of new attack helicopters to replace its Mil Mi-24 Hinds. The rotorcraft has also received significant interest in Bahrain, but it seems likely that the first customer could be Pakistan, where the helicopter has been put through its paces to prove its hot and high performance.

In May, TAI and the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC) at Kamra signed a memorandum of understanding that the two organizations hope will lead to closer cooperation.

The cooperation agreed to at the IDEF 2017 defense show in May could lead to PAC opening an assembly line and becoming a supplier to the T129 program if the helicopter is chosen to join the Pakistani attack helicopter fleet. Although Pakistan has ordered Bell’s AH-1Z Cobra, it cannot afford to replace its entire fleet of aging AH-1S and AH-1F models with the more modern version.

Turkey plans to buy 59 T129s and has options on another 32, with the type replacing AH-1 Cobras and SuperCobras. The T129 differs from the Mangusta in that it features the Rolls-Royce/Honeywell Light Helicopter Turbine Engine Co. (LHTEC) T800 engine and an Aselsan-developed avionics suite and mission system as well as sighting system.

Several indigenous weapons have been integrated, including the Roketsan UMTAS guided missile and the Cirit lightweight missile. The air-to-air version of the Stinger can also be fitted to the helicopter.

http://aviationweek.com/paris-air-show-2017/turkish-aerospace-industries-t129-hunts-export-orders
 
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I'm hearing that the requirement is >50 locally produced birds.


>50 means we are expanding our PAA current size ? and locally assembled means we will be producing it under license ?
 
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What will it take to get them over the verge????
 
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I'm hearing that the requirement is >50 locally produced birds.
>50 means all PAA requirement or just for TAI ATAK?

If >50 is all PAA requirement then how we are going to divide them in three type of Copters, e.g Zulu, z-10 and T-129?
 
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° T-129 to replace Cobras, build numbers. Initially 30 will be ordered.

° AH-1Z to form the spearhead, order likely to grow to 25-30 birds.

° Around 20 Mi-35E are planned for Special Ops.

° Z-10 is a stopgap for now.

Eventually, we might be looking at around a decent 100 attack helos in service.

>50 means we are expanding our PAA current size ? and locally assembled means we will be producing it under license ?
 
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I'm hearing that the requirement is >50 locally produced birds.

This means Uncle SAM has shown us Cold shoulder on follow-up order of Additional AH-Z1 Zulu :(
and bye bye to Z-10's , Assembly line in Pakistan will be a great Achievement, we need to operate more than 60 Attack helicopters considering the Afghan and LoC border heat-up Situation ..
 
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° T-129 to replace Cobras, build numbers. Initially 30 will be ordered.

° AH-1Z to form the spearhead, order likely to grow to 25-30 birds.

° Around 20 Mi-35E are planned for Special Ops.

° Z-10 is a stopgap for now.

Eventually, we might be looking at around a decent 100 attack helos in service.

Such numbers would be outstanding against Indian cold start plans and their initial armour columns; and go hand in hand with with any MBRL system we develop to cause serious damage.

PA can then spare it's older Cobras to FC for tribal areas and Afghan border.

My only worry is Indian SAMs, how effective can they be against attack helis?
 
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° T-129 to replace Cobras, build numbers. Initially 30 will be ordered.

° AH-1Z to form the spearhead, order likely to grow to 25-30 birds.

° Around 20 Mi-35E are planned for Special Ops.

° Z-10 is a stopgap for now.

Eventually, we might be looking at around a decent 100 attack helos in service.

If I recall the Italian Ambassador did mention the requirement of PAA to be large. Now was he speaking for the ATAK-129's alone or there are some other projects, however this was unclear.

You have mentioned earlier that the order of ATAK's is >50 built is Pakistan which indicates that there might be some for the Pakistan Marines or Pakistan Army has decided to use these on two fronts i.e Afghanistan and India.

One of the Turkish news papers had reported that Pakistan would order similar numbers to what Turkey plans i.e 90. This seems to be the minimum requirement (80+ 10 reserve) if we try to bring a high lo perspective with AH-1Z.

You also mentioned Pakistan may increase the number of AH-1Z by 15 more. Would it be possible to procure AH-1W and upgrade those to Zulu from Turkey as they operate these since 1990's.
 
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° T-129 to replace Cobras, build numbers. Initially 30 will be ordered.

° AH-1Z to form the spearhead, order likely to grow to 25-30 birds.

° Around 20 Mi-35E are planned for Special Ops.

° Z-10 is a stopgap for now.

Eventually, we might be looking at around a decent 100 attack helos in service.

Those 3 Z-10 are still in service, what about them? Will PA send them back or keep them. Did we paid for those 3 Z-10s?
 
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This means Uncle SAM has shown us Cold shoulder on follow-up order of Additional AH-Z1 Zulu :(
and bye bye to Z-10's , Assembly line in Pakistan will be a great Achievement, we need to operate more than 60 Attack helicopters considering the Afghan and LoC border heat-up Situation ..

Have they? Haven't seen or read anything about a follow-up order for AH-1z. Perhaps Pakistan is waiting the current order to arrive and integrated into PAA before doing a follow-up order. Of course, there's the whole problem of money.
 
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